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SeattlePioneer

Girls Just Wanna Be Cub Scouts

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It will be interesting to see how the 2019 world jamboree will shape opinions on co-Ed units.

My money says BSA will be co-ed before the 2019 World Jamboree.  Wouldn't surprise me to hear it announced at the NAM next spring.  Just remember I'm married so "My money" is such a big deal. :)

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Walk in the Woods, I would, hypothetically*, put up $1 (my standard bet) of "my money" against $1 of "your money" that the gender requirement for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts in 2019 will be the same as it is now. With our respective wives' permission, of course.

 

*So as not to run afoul of any Internet gambling laws.

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My money says BSA will be co-ed before the 2019 World Jamboree.  Wouldn't surprise me to hear it announced at the NAM next spring.  Just remember I'm married so "My money" is such a big deal. :)

You're a winner! The BSA is already co-ed at the leader and youth levels.

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You're a winner! The BSA is already co-ed at the leader and youth levels.

This thread is not about some tangential programs. It is about COs having the option of implementing BSA's core programs (Cubs, Boys, O/A) for both sexes.

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This thread is not about some tangential programs. It is about COs having the option of implementing BSA's core programs (Cubs, Boys, O/A) for both sexes.

That is true, but qwasze, do my eyes deceive me or are you (of all people) calling Venturing a "tangential program"? Of course, that characterization is still not what is at issue in this thread - it is about Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

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This thread is not about some tangential programs. It is about COs having the option of implementing BSA's core programs (Cubs, Boys, O/A) for both sexes.

The discussion is about the BSA changing their program to accept girls in cubs and troops. The CO option is irrelevant to the discussion because a total program change would be required just for CO's to have a choice. 

 

Barry

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For me this discussion is quite interesting as I have a Venturing crew that is half male and half female and we have a terrific program. We have invited girl scout troops and boy scout troops to join us on our outings and have had great success without trying to convince them to leave their own programs. As the song says "Girls just wanna have fun". As leaders I think we all know of weak troops and crews with little to no outdoor program and who are floundering trying to stay alive, allowing them to have some really great and worthwhile outdoor experiences has breathed some new life into those units.  I look at it as an obligation to all of our leaders with successful outdoor programs to help struggling units instead of passing the buck to the Council, we all know what that will result in, Absolutely Nothing.

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That is true, but qwasze, do my eyes deceive me or are you (of all people) calling Venturing a "tangential program"? Of course, that characterization is still not what is at issue in this thread - it is about Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

There are two ways to look at this:

  • Numerically, Nationally, it's shrinking. Like @@BadenP says, you ain't getting help from council. Most DE's have figured out that venturing is a tough sell. Mainly because folks in many American communities believe in a segregated program. But also because high-school kids are diverse. Venturers can be nearly invisible to some councils.
  • So, you need your community to rally around the cause and support it. When that happens, it's magical. The kids see that they can brainstorm a crazy idea, and very likely find an adult nearby with the connections to make it happen. A few of these develop loyalty to BSA, and really put their heart and soul back into council. The kids in the green shirts become "the few, the proud."

So, if you're all about the numbers, there's nothing in going co-ed for you. Venturing is the test case. Unless BPSA or Campfire start publishing exponentially growing numbers, you've got no favorable statistics.

If you're about the seeing widest pool of kids possible getting a vision for hiking and camping independently with their mates ... depending on your community, a co-ed option might be an easy sell.

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It is well known that I have and currently work with a new troop, new crew and a new church youth program.  I can run them basically all the same.  I am not restricted by male/female issues of the troop, I am not restricted and it doesn't cost me anything like it is in the crew, and with the church group, I don't have a ton of watergun, type restrictions.  The kids want laser tag they get laser tag, etc.

 

So which program is the easiest to work?  It ain't the troop.  By the way, the person who corralled me to work with the church youth group is an Eagle Scout.  (his only child is a girl in the group)   :)  Go figure, he knew my SM background and that's why I got tapped out for the job and I'm not even a member of that church..

 

Oh, by the way the church group pulls in 25-30 youth per week, about the same size as my one troop at it's highest.  My Crew is pushing that number too, but not my troop.  That still continues to struggle.

Edited by Stosh

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Meanwhile in the UK, there's been a small ripple of publicity around girls in scouting this week, as it's apparently 25 years since they first allowed girls in all sections, and females are now 25% of the movement. National Census figures show 10 years of youth membership growth.

 

Still long waiting lists in many places, and not enough leaders, but it was probably ever thus.

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If you're about the seeing widest pool of kids possible getting a vision for hiking and camping independently with their mates ... depending on your community, a co-ed option might be an easy sell.

Another option to achieve that is for the GSUSA to offer that opportunity, or increase the availability of that opportunity, or publicize the existence of that opportunity better than they do now, or whatever else they need to do so that girls get the outdoor activities they want within that organization. As I have said before, if the girls and parents in the GSUSA want their program to change, they can change it.

Edited by NJCubScouter
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This came up last night at Roundtable.  Council reps were there for a Fireside Chat which quickly broke down into "you guys need to do something to allow girls into the Scouts," followed by "you guys need to get something like the Rovers Scouts Canada has."  There may have been more but I was hiding under my seat at that point.

 

One rep asked for a show of hands (with everyone's eyes closed) who wanted co-ed and said the results were about the same as he sees at other meetings: about 2/3s in favor of co-ed.   Another rep explained the complexities mentioned earlier in the thread: COs not wanting to mix genders, liability, etc.

 

I guess if someone really feels strongly about it, (which I personally don't; my interest and ability is strictly Pack level at this point), they should write up a solid proposal and lobby the BSA.  

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This came up last night at Roundtable.  Council reps were there for a Fireside Chat which quickly broke down into "you guys need to do something to allow girls into the Scouts," followed by "you guys need to get something like the Rovers Scouts Canada has."  There may have been more but I was hiding under my seat at that point.

 

One rep asked for a show of hands (with everyone's eyes closed) who wanted co-ed and said the results were about the same as he sees at other meetings: about 2/3s in favor of co-ed.   Another rep explained the complexities mentioned earlier in the thread: COs not wanting to mix genders, liability, etc.

 

I guess if someone really feels strongly about it, (which I personally don't; my interest and ability is strictly Pack level at this point), they should write up a solid proposal and lobby the BSA.  

At least you weren't throwing chairs! :p Everyone's eyes closed? Sounds like a good ol' revival tent meeting. :rolleyes:

 

I suspect National faces a steady lobby of proposals and counter-proposals. They don't currently face a ground-swell of COs looking for this sort of program. Maybe they will within the decade. Maybe not.

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It always surprises me the number of people who will subject themselves to the Boy Scout program and gripe that there's no girls in the program.  What part of BOY Scout program are we missing here?

 

It has always been my belief that people who want to co-ed a all girl or all boy program are simply jealous that their opposite sex child will miss out on a great program instead of making one of their own.

 

I am an avid outdoors person not because of scouts, not because of church, not because of school, not because of the YMCA or sports, or karate, but because my family was.  My wife was a Daisy Scout for one year.  She's more outdoors minded than even I am and her family didn't camp.  She grew up in a large city and didn't want any part of that for her life.

 

Neither of us are involved in scouting because we want to change it.

 

I just spent the last two days building a kayak trailer for the Mrs. and I.  If the BSA program changes into something other than what pleases us to volunteering for, we'll just volunteer for the Red Cross and do more kayaking with adult groups which is a lot less hassle than dragging along a ton of little kids.

Edited by Stosh

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This came up last night at Roundtable.  Council reps were there for a Fireside Chat which quickly broke down into "you guys need to do something to allow girls into the Scouts," followed by "you guys need to get something like the Rovers Scouts Canada has."  There may have been more but I was hiding under my seat at that point.

 

One rep asked for a show of hands (with everyone's eyes closed) who wanted co-ed and said the results were about the same as he sees at other meetings: about 2/3s in favor of co-ed.   Another rep explained the complexities mentioned earlier in the thread: COs not wanting to mix genders, liability, etc.

I'm not surprised, I run into a lot of scouters that would like the BSA to be fully coed, though I'm not sure it's 2/3.

 

I think it could work fine, as most of the world appears to make it work.

 

One big caveat however, is the American paranoia about males around children (Eek! A Man! Remember: all males are predators). It gets worse if any of those children are female (does the GSUSA even allow men at their camps?).

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