Is it time to scrap the Eagle project?

[vol_scouter]

In reading the posts on what advancement committees are requiring for Eagle projects I was struck by the absolutely needless requirements. It has to be typed (if readable, why not hand written), it has to be ~100 pages (so we encourage verbosity), it has to have a budget, it has to have signatures, it has ... This requirement has become onerous. The original reason was for the boy to direct a service project. The current result is a project that many of the adults would find difficult to fulfill all of the requirements. I realize that there is much to be gained from any of the different requirements. I believe that the sum total is too much! As adults, we become very rules oriented and we are setting up barriers to advancement in order to fulfill the 'rules'. Throw out the 'rules' and return to the original concept or scrap the Eagle service project all together.

[Stosh]

I guess I'm not ready to scrap Eagle projects just because adults can't allow the scouts to actually put their leadership skills to the test. The problem is not with the program, but with the adults who insist on "leading" the boy through the process with all the hoops he must do in order to get a patch. The requirement places a ton of adult approval on the project, which is basically ok, but when the approval adds extra expectations, it is not ok. If one looks carefully at the requirement the PROJECT IDEA has to be approved! NOT THE PROJECT PROCESS. Once the IDEA has been approved, the boy is to be left alone to do his work! Since when does defining a project idea have anything to do with type-written?

 

Adult-led units are a difficult animal to control and modern scouting does very little to rein them in. Maybe it's time to scrap adult-led methods in a program designed to promote boy-led leadership. Maybe it would be best if the SM, Troop Committee, should be kept out of the approval process and the boy works directly with the benefitting organization and scout Council. The SM and Troop Committee have been removed from all but minimal involvement with the Eagle BOR's, why not the whole process?

 

Remember, the Eagle project itself is NOT the problem! Don't go after the symptom of the problem, go after the cause!

 

Stosh

 

 

[vol_scouter]

jblake47,

 

You make good points. That may be a way to keep the boys from being crushed by rules. It is no wonder that scouting numbers are in decline when rules are more important to the adults than the youth. The program is there for the FUN and development of the youth. I earned my Eagle in 1968 before the Eagle project. Adults made the program fun. They were not overly interested in the 'letter of the law' as to advancement rules - thank Goodness! The program is should be all about the YOUTH not the rules! However we can accomplish this, the youth will be better served.

[Trevorum]

"100 pages"

 

ummm... Huh? Who said that? Did I miss another memo from National????????

 

[Eagle1982]

Is this an instance of local adult leaders placing additional "requirements" or "suggestions" to the service project to make it more difficult to attain Eagle?

 

What I've noticed since my youth is how summer camp has turned into merit badge camp. Then, as if that were not enough, there are week long programs to get your Eagle required merit badges.

 

Have some local troops rebelled, and made the Eagle Service project process more complicated to make sure it remains a prestigious event?

 

 

 

[jr56]

Excellent point, the problem is not with the project requirement, it is with adult leaders not following the requirements and adding some of their own.

[evmori]

What it is time for is DAC's to follow the guidelines for Eagle projects & stop making up needless requirements!

[FireKat]

Ok. Now that we know there is a problem (some adult leaders) How do we fix it. Who can we go to when we have troubles? Any places higher if there is no solution at first level?  Please do not just say 'training' as many of the 'problems' have had or refuse to go or listen as they can be set in their ways. Somethimes someone from higher up in the orginization needs to come correct things before they will listen.

P.S. we have a great DAC who watches birthdays and contacts the ageing scouts to help them make the deadline.

[Stosh]

I would start by taking the required SM and CC signatures off the application form. If the boy is doing the project only the benefitting organization and the boy himself need sign the application. If the project idea is not appropriate, then the Council can tell the boy. There is no need for SM and CC interference in the process! The SM and CC can suggest, mentor, or guide that maybe the idea might not pass Council's approval, but the boy can still turn it in without any hoops/tricks to perform for the SM and CC to get the application on to the next step. If it doesn't pass application, then the boy is sent back to refine it until it does. He may wish to ask advise from SM or CC at this point, but when all is said and done, it should be the BOY'S decision not the SM's or CC's!

[Knot Head]

>> The program is there for the FUN and development of the youth.

[Eagle1982]

So if you remove the Eagle Service project, then what is the difference between 1st class and Eagle?

 

Just a bunch of merit badges, which they can get at merit badge factory camp.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

100 pages? Is that font 8, 12, or 24?

 

I am a long standing member of the District's Advancement Committee and I am not sure I have the attention span to read a 100 page Eagle Project write-up much less 3-5 at the monthly meeting.

[Gunny2862]

No, I don't think we should scrap it.

 

I do think that some overzealous adults are putting up some unnecessary hurdles.

 

But the majority of the problems I'm aware of in the process have to do with 17 year and 9 month old Scouts who come to the realization that they are now on a compressed timeline and have to jump on the project to finish it. The few Scouts I've seen in this predicament(I'm still new) have been "absent" Scouts - the ones who stayed around and involved with the troop didn't fall into this trap.

And due to their decision to wait until the very last minute every adult interaction becomes one of "You have to hurry and meet MY timeline because I waited so long - and if you don't it's YOUR fault I didn't make Eagle."

 

I'm not buying it, If they get their Eagle package when they make Life - the way we do it - then there's just not an excuse for waiting that long and expecting the adults to jump thru the hoops FOR them.

 

JMVHO

[John-in-KC]

I'm with Gunny.

 

Even with a summer of Scout Camp staff to hold up finalization of his write-up, even with having to do his project execution phase in 1-1.5 hour visits to the hospitals which asked for his support, even with meeting a standard for District approval which some here have objected to...

 

... my son was able to do his project, from the seed of a vision, to his EBOR, in 8 months, and not be rushed.

 

I think the ELSP is right about on measure (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Eagledad]

>>Adult-led units are a difficult animal to control and modern scouting does very little to rein them in. Maybe it's time to scrap adult-led methods in a program designed to promote boy-led leadership.