vol_scouter

Slam!

Those things are all true. The lawsuits contesting the ability of the National Council of the BSA to revoke membership prohibiting any participation have been had. Being a volunteer is not a right and being denied the ability to participate in the Scouting program does not affect one’s ability to pursue careers and other hobbies. So the courts have said that the BSA has the authority to revoke membership and all participation. Clearly, the next suit filed could turn precedence on its head but for now membership and participation are a privilege and not a right. The BSA has set

Actually, membership is granted by the National Council of the BSA. Membership is revoked by the National Council and that often occurs because a local Scout Executive recommends revocation. In general, the BSA errs on the side of safety to youth so are likely to revoke membership when recommended by a SE who likewise wishes to protect children. There is an appeals process. In the case that started this thread, I suspect that there is more to the story than is currently known. The person who lost their membership will have to decide whether or not to appeal - it is not for others t

Develops Character.

So the question then is would it have been worse if Lions and Tigers did not exist. One would have to compare demographically similar areas some with and some without Lions and Tigers. Making assumptions, even well reasoned ones, has marked many BSA decisions that have not turned out well.

When the National Jamboree was held near Washington, DC at Fort A. P. Hill, the BSA would make a substantial profit. The profit at the Summit located National Jamborees has been modest. Sign up is really lagging making arrangements for transportation more costly on an individual basis if one cannot fill a bus. Councils will have had to fill their method of making a trust contribution so that budgeting has been done with funds ready to send once this gets out of Federal District Court. Some councils are seeing significant growth (ours in the 30% range) so some are hiring anticipat

If a girl or boy joins a Troop at the age of say 15, they must start learning the skills required for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class that their friends learned years before and are now working on Merit Badges for Star, Life, and Eagle. Who else are working on those same skills? The eleven and twelve year olds. This is what I have seen and discussed with volunteers from across the nation. Even if they are separated from the younger Scouts, they still are going to require some time to catch up to their age matched friends.

This so very true and it is why one of the 'Big Three' of Positive Youth Development (PYD) is providing youth leadership opportunities where they are allowed to fail and that there are consequences to the failure. The consequences do not have to be dire, could only be that the other youth make fun of the leader (in a good natured way). We often forget about the need for consequences, but it is often implied in what we all say. If a patrol leader forgot the patrol food for a meal, making the patrol wait to eat can be a negative consequence. No one is harmed, only hungry stomachs might have

Wow! We are seeing a little of that in my council. The troop where I volunteer has a dozen or so Eagle Scouts as adult volunteers who do have all of the skills covered so those boys are lucky. How do we attract the alumni to the program? How do we attract people who are currently active in the outdoors to Scouting? How do we get them all trained? I have seen many different kinds of efforts, but none have been all that successful. Scouting is facing significant problems in almost every part of the organization. We need everyone who is experienced to remain active or become act

@HashTagScouts We were clearly discussing Scouts BSA because and new Scout Patrols. I di note that your experiences could be different than has been mine. Your son was fortunate to have an Eagle Scout dad. (As an aside, my son and I are both Eagle Scouts). The intent of the Scouting program is to develop character through the application of the Scout Oath and Law. One of the methods is to require youth to lead other youth with consequences. This is one of the three pillars of character development in youth as has been shown through many academic publications. The troops wit

@HashTagScouts Even if the is not a new Scout Patrol, the older girl or boy will be learning skills with younger youth while their friends are doing more advanced activities. To adults, the distinctions are small but for youth, they can be substantial. I have seen this many times, but others may have seen such situations evolve differently.

Once again, this was not research from National but a third party. The research is solid. National has released much of their research but for many reasons have not released the raw data. Once again, I do not disagree and am certain that some families get burned out early. The issue is of magnitude in these discussions. Are the early signups for Lions and Tigers really beneficial in the long run or would it be better to join later? That is a thorny question that would take a huge and expensive survey to complete. To me, the real issue is that all in Scouting see the Cub S

National has third party research that shows that families are committing to activities in kindergarten that will guide the family time for the next several years, i.e. if the child is not in Scouting in kindergarten, there may never be time for Scouting. This is the biggest reason for Lions and Tigers. The programs do get a lot of interest and new members. That said, starting so early for a program that can go all the way from kindergarten to high school seems like an enormous commitment. I do not disagree with your premise but do believe that this is a situation that is very co

@Eagle1993 Thank you for all of your commentary and insights through this long and complex legal wrangling.

You are so correct. There are mainly outstanding people in Scouting both in the volunteer and professional ranks. A few unethical or egotistical individuals can taint the vision of the whole.

Not many councils but very active in one council on the EB and EC as well as numerous committees. I have served on and chaired national committees and been asked to attend parts of some National Executive Committee meetings and have attended National Executive Board meetings both by invitation. Professionals work with a volunteer chair to develop a list of nominees for the committee and, after two years, the chair. Most of the time it is a mutual work but I have seen chairs be insistent on certain people. It is uncommon that the professional gets to select the people that they want

Those policies, guidelines, and other required rules are NOT promulgated by professionals but rather by volunteers on committees that are staffed by professionals who have NO vote. Those committee recommendations are sent to the National Executive Board who makes the final approval to cause implementation. Volunteers run the National Council - not the professional staff.

@fred8033 At our camp, welding is in high demand which is a trade unless one talks about how a plasma is formed that in turn causes the changes that result in a weld. All the other most popular merit badges are STEM. Youth want to explore their world that is a STEM world.

Some of the cases seem to me to have been difficult at the time for the BSA to find. But cases such as @ThenNow and @Eagle1970 seem to be impossible that someone would not have known that there was at least something happening that demanded more investigation to something obviously wrong. It is sickening that Scouting professionals and volunteers failed to protect the Scouts.

@ThenNow From my understanding, there were many professionals who felt that something constructive should result from the information in the IVF. After seeing the ones that were publicly released, the paucity of information, especially for older cases, would tend to negate any useful study. My understanding is that legal counsel and PR were rather emphatic to keep everything behind lock and key. So feel better that efforts have been made. I feel that examining the files and consulting with experts could have provided enhanced warnings and some keys. The 1960’s and early 1970’s

@johnsch322 is correct. The BSA fought the release. When the records were released, most names were redacted if my memory is correct. It is my belief that the BSA did not wish to have the records for precisely the reason that happened after the Oregon case. Attorneys used the records to find potential clients from what has been intimated to me. As they found one victim, they could often find more. It was not an easy task because the records centered on the perpetrator but there might be enough information to link to a chartered organization or unit along with a time frame. I

The Chapter 11 means that the National Council has no resources to send.

I am reposting what I wrote earlier on the other thread: So in my profession of medicine, documentation is very important with time as the medical record has become much less about communicating the condition of the patient to other physicians and is mainly for medical legal and accounting purposes. When I have reviewed one of my charts or been an expert witness, I am often struck about obvious omissions. The mantra is if it is not documented, it was not done. It is far too common to find a situation where I am certain that things were done but there is no supporting information. La

So many things that I would like to say but the moderators do not allow conversations about exorbitant attorney fees.

Some professionals had been working for the BSA for a considerable time and had their defined benefit plan frozen so that they could not make further contributions. I believe that retirees did not see any changes to their plans but those who had not retired saw some reductions. Even with those changes, the PBGC says that the plans are underfunded. If the BSA emerges from Chapter 11, the business plan calls for adequate funding. Should the BSA file for Chapter 7, there will need to be payments made into the PBGC to make up for the contributions that the BSA would have made.