desertrat77

BadenP, hear, hear! Administrivia has trumped good programming in the BSA.

Shortridge, your red beret comments brought back some good memories! I've got a red beret tucked away somewhere. I also second your pox on the inspection sheet. For an organization that errs on the side of avoiding a military appearance (oftentimes to a fault), that inspection sheet sure "scratches an itch" for some would-be drill instructors. Nowadays, I'll wear a hat to keep the sun or rain off my head on the trail, and that's all. Speedy: in your scenario, I think a scout has wide latitude to choose the hat best for him.

LeCastor, welcome back to scouting!

Garrison Cap, welcome back to scouting!

A few years ago, I picked up two '60s era BSA red jackets on ebay. It helped that it was summer time, and after being sniped at the last minute for many auctions, I got both of these jackets at reasonable prices. Both are much better quality than what National sells now.

Ebay is your friend!

AK-Eagle, that's a great story, thanks for sharing it. The scout will never forget.

Though I mentioned earlier I'm not in favor of the T21 program, I thank the pro-T21 for sharing their perspectives. A couple thoughts: Everything listed that the new scouts learn in the program, I keep thinking "Shouldn't they learn this stuff from their patrol leader?" Are we "outsourcing leadership" by having cadre and ASMs run T21 at camp? Also, I reflected on my own experience as a first year camper many years ago. I think I was a Tenderfoot--maybe not even that. I didn't know much about anything, started a few MBs but didn't finish a single one, but I sure enjoyed my

Alas, the famous campaign hat has gone the way of the full-size neckerchief.... Once upon a time, both the hat and neckerchief were practical, affordable, universally worn items. Neckerchiefs were worn loosely around the neck...campaign hats were bent, dusty, encrusted with sweat, and generally became unique to each wearer. Then the "palace guard" effect happened somewhere. To look super-sharp, it became necessary to obsessively roll up neckerchiefs to perfection. This was a problem because comfy full size ones didn't roll quite right, so the neckerchiefs were redesigned to ai

Buffalo Skipper I see what you are saying...sure looks like National is implying the campaign hat and BS cap to be uniform items......

As a SM, I required the scouts to sweep out their tent each morning, roll up the flaps on both ends (weather permitting), and generally put stuff away. No white glove/hospital corners and such. It took ten minutes, got the scouts in the routine of squaring their own stuff away, and was good morale/health/welfare check. I did the same with my tent. No one complained, and clean up was done in good spirit by all. This was required at the various camps I attended as a kid, and didn't seem tough...it was just part of the summer camp routine.

I'm not in favor of these programs. As stated previously, these skills are traditionally a troop's responsibility. There is also an air of "scouting pre-school" as well. Being in the "newbie" class for the better part of the day isn't a solid summer camp experience. Also, please read the small print: some camps have these programs, and still require an adult from your troop to be present each day in the T21 to help train the scouts (if you send scouts, you have to send an adult as well). Seems kinda odd. Why have an adult do the training--shouldn't the senior scouts bein

Thanks for the link! Will follow Cimarron's trek closely. Trailjournals is a great source for all things backpacking. Good stories too. Hope to hike the AT when I retire from the military.

Love this thread already! I agree with everything above. Plenty of stuff around the house and garage that can be used. Garage sales are good for bargains too. When I read Boys Life and see them shamelessly pitching high-priced "gucci" camping gear, it does not sit well. Sends the wrong message. National is unwittingly discouraging participation by touting such stuff. For most BSA camping, bargains/used/handmedowns/homemade stuff are just fine. For high adventure, a good pack and a solid pair of shoes are important. Then again, the old timers used to hike Philmont with home

The National Scouting Museum had a temporary display for one of the most respected Scouters in the history of the BSA? One whole year? Gosh, bully for them! Perhaps they had to make room for the "BSA History of Visual Aids"--butcher paper, to overhead projector, to power point projector.

WW, welcome back! Scouting will benefit from your experience and leadership.

Can't see justifying a refund, but a good chat with the camp director is in order. The instructor's first comment, after introducing himself, should have been "If you aren't 15, you can take this course but won't get your certification." Scouts could have departed and found something else to do, or stuck around and learned something. SP: I agree with your idea.

As a new ASM mid '80s, I had two shirts: an ODL for in town use, and a classic old school edition from the early '50s for the field. The old shirt was remarkable. I enjoyed wearing it. Kept it fairly uncluttered: original BSA strip, and an Eagle knot. Nothing else. Still have the ODL...still fits, but starting to show its age (as am I). Always ironed it, but never overboard. The '50s shirt looked great right out of the dryer. Tough as nails and very well designed. Alas, I outgrew it. So I cut off the Eagle knot and sent the shirt back to the donation bin (I paid a coupl

Designed by and for indoor scouters. Perfect for wear in the cubical at council or national offices, sitting on a folding chair listening to powerpoint presentations all Saturday long, or standing in line at buffets. The uniform, overall, is costly, poorly designed, and too dainty for adventure. But rugged activities are not National priorities, hence the status quo. For those that doubt me, find a shirt from the '50s or '60s, and give it a whirl, wear it everywhere. Even though the shirt might be 50 years old, you'll see it can withstand brush and briars, and still clean up good

All good advice--83Eagle nailed it right out of the gate--less like cub scouts, more like boy scouts. Less arts/crafts/passive indoor events, more outdoors and adventure. The webs will be chomping at the bit to crossover and join boy scouts.

Pie is sublime, and is a bona fide cure all.

I agree with BadenP, sounds like the adults are trying to relive their PL and SPL days. This always results in a fun program for the adults, and a very boring or/and annoying program for the scouts. As a JASM, you can hang in there and influence where you can. Lots of good guidance shared above. But don't hit your head against the wall--there may come a point when it just isn't worth the heartache, and that's the time to find another troop. This is also a valuable lesson for that day when you become an ASM or SM. We always benefit from good and bad examples in life. Best wi

If the BSA had a truly rugged uniform shirt, one could leave it on all the time and not worry about it.

Green Bar Bill's exclusion is sad but not surprising. Good news: judging from the comments thus far, GB Bill's impact will not fade anytime soon. And though I never met him personally, I'd venture to say he'd be happier that his reputation is still solid with the men and women working in the field. Far more meaningful than being remembered in a tucked away alcove in the museum, or being named after a burger at the snack bar ("Green Bar Bill Burger has two slices of avocado....") As a scout who endured the New Scouting program of the '70s, the Green Bar Bill inspired Scout Hanboo

NC, you raise good points, these issues are alarming. Perhaps National can field computer based training modules, and require completion before any scout attempts reading, scholarship, and the citizenships...especially the dreaded 500 word essay for environmental science. Perhaps it deserves its own CBT.