desertrat77

Blade, nice dodge! And thanks for the thought on "character." I will ponder it, along with your previous commentary about "sloppy...lazy...fat" people who don't tuck in their shirt tails. Funny thing is, I always wear my BSA uniform properly. That's me. Folks that don't wear a uniform, or wear it with "county options"--that's their call. And I support their freedom to do so. The men and women that comprise the BSA are not conscripts, nor prisoners. This is not boot camp. Or the parade ground.

Blade: And the tangible consequences for not wearing the BSA uniform in accordance with the uniform guide are......?

My hat is off to the wooden pack frame guys--I salute you. BadenP, you raise good points. The focus was on adventure. Only take the gear that was necessary and make sure it was durable and functional. There was less hand wringing overall.

ScoutLass, thanks for your articulate and classy reply. You said it best. At the end of the day, the guide is non-regulatory. It's an administrative guide. Volunteers pay for their own uniform, they can wear it as they wish. The higher ideals of scouting are more important than any guide, or uniform.

RememberSchiff, I forgot about carrying the axes at Philmont, the years that were pre-stove. Your Sears clod-hoppers: memories! Except my first pair of hiking boots were Kmart waffle boots...about as heavy as something Frankenstein would wear. The next pair, the aforementioned combat boots, were light as a feather it seemed. Broke them in wearing them to school. Now that you mention it, everything was cotton. Kudu: My first pack had a hip belt, a simple web thing with a buckle, no padding. It was a Sear brand, poorly designed, a real back killer. Didn't get much

SSScout, you know, those are still useful skills! Except the corned beef hash. That was tough sledding. The weight and meal itself.

The Philmont trek is still my best scouting experience. Not because it was easy! It was true adventure. The Philmont arrowhead is one of the coolest patches to earn. How did we survive? Good question. I don't think we knew any better. Hiked Philmont as a teen in combat boots, eight lb sleeping back, etc. Hydration system? Two GI canteens and canteen cup. External frame pack purchased with my lawn mowing money No big deal, particularly when you consider the primitive gear the scouts of yesteryear carried. So when the going gets tough, I have to ask myself "are the scout

In a volunteer organization, the ladies' personal wishes are more important that what the uniform guide says. They know best what works for them. Just some background as a career military guy (AF)...ladies have two shirt choices with the blue service uniform--one that is designed to be untucked with no belt, another that is tucked in and worn with a blue belt/silver buckle. The commander can dictate what type of shirt must be worn (uniform of the day). However, I rarely see this option exercised. If the uniform of the day is service dress, the ladies can pick which version of the

In my office, I have a group photo from basic training. We were wearing the old green fatigues. Folks used to stop by the office and look it at. They'd squint, look at the date the photo was taken, and say "I was three years old!" That was then. Nowadays, they usually say "I wasn't even born then!"

Historically, mixed reviews on the official BSA mess kit. I've always liked them. Sure the pot is too little to cook much in, but I always find the whole kit handy. Would not recommend buying it new; check ebay, they usually have several from '60s and earlier. Better construction. If the kit is old enough, the cup may be aluminum, which I like. As a scout, I also used a military surplus mess kit. Kinda of simple--just a fry pan and divided plate--but I used it quite a bit. Sturdy and scout proof. With the kit assembled, you can store silverware, salt and pepper, and other items in

That's good news, Eagle92. BSA identity and utility in one clothing item.

This is the kind of training scouts and scouters really want! Thanks.

Concur with the military surplus commentary...though a little heavy, you'll get good value for your dollar, and it works fine for those low mileage backpacking trips. I still have a few items (canteen cup, mess kit, canteens) that I packed with as a scout, and they held up just fine. If it's GI proof, it's scout proof!

It's like baking a delicious cobbler, and then not being allowed to eat it! One of the motivating factors in learning those pioneering skills was "everyone's safety depends on my skill and attention to detail." Not quite the same if no one can climb on the darn thing.

If it is optional, well made, and reasonably priced, I don't see any problems.

It's not very important. It is even less important when you consider that scout uniforms are low quality and high cost. They ain't "scout proof." Ideals about uniformity, identity, respect, etc., are all good things. No argument there. But these ideals can quickly be negated when you consider that scouting can take place in street clothes, and that our uniforms are designed primarily to wear while sitting on a metal chair in the church basement, or attending a banquet. The day that the BSA fields a rugged, well designed, reasonably priced uniform is the day that uniforming will

I think we can carry the sports and band uniform comparision too far when it comes to scout uniforms. Unlike band (the need for strict uniformity) and sports (utilitarian design coupled with uniformity), scout uniforms fall short in both categories. Uniformity? A fully uniformed pack is a great goal and concept, but there is no overwhelming need for it. Scout programs can take place regardless. Utility? The BSA hasn't sold a field-worthy uniform since the '60s. From the olive green cotton pajamas of the '70s, to the professional-meeting-goer ODL uniform of the '80s/'90s/'00s

No uniform? "Glad you are here!" No consequences. Eventually he may see the need to get on board, but if not, that is okay too. The fact that he keeps showing up is the most important thing. It speaks highly of the program. Twenty years from now, the most valued aspect of his scouting days will not be if he wore a uniform or not. The uniform is a means, not the end.

Exactly Mr. B. Both versions have their place.

All good advice. The link Eagle92 provided is the way to go, in my opinion. These kits are tried and true, and have been around for decades.

Moosetracker, how is the staff dinner funded? By the staff?

Moosetracker-- Lol, I'd never claim perfection (ask my wife)! Sure, I have room for improvement. But, I'm not sure the additional insights gained from going to WB are worth the time, energy, and money. Boy-led troops: I was a PL and SPL in boy-led troops and carried on the tradition when I was an ASM and SM. Great learning experiences all. Somehow this happened without my SMs (except one) or myself being WBers. I don't see WB as the sole keeper of the scouting spirit.

Moosetracker, thanks for expounding, but regarding your points from the previous page, I "got it" when I was a 15 year old SPL. I suspect many former scouts and current scouters can state the same.

All good suggestions. However, vandalism and poor sanitation are not root causes, but symptoms of a larger problem. Sounds like several troops do not instill the scout oath and law.

Find some old handbooks and skim through them. Some of it may be dated, but many of the themes still resonant today. The old school writers had a way with words that still inspires. Plus, there are some great programming ideas in those old books.