desertrat77

Shortridge, good points all. Regarding how tough it will be to recruit scouts at large for work crews: that is quite true, and that's another rub: service/duty to others is often lacking at the troop level as well.

SR540: touch! Sublime reply, thanks for the chuckle.

Seattle, good thoughts on referring the girls to GSA, but they may already know what they are missing. I've got a daughter at home who has been a girl scout, and after seeing what the BSA does, regularly and articulately states how much the GSA stinks, the superiority of the BSA program, and is not happy about the injustice of not being able to join the BSA. She's anxiously awaiting the day she's old enough for Venturing.

Nolesrule, though I question OA's relevancy, I am not pulling for its demise. But its sure heading that way, all on its own. As you and others pointed out, there are OA projects that are superb, and right in line with OA ideals. But do we really need all the overhead of OA, just to have traditional work crews? Do work crews need elections, ceremonies, sashes, patches, officers, advisors, and such? A good lodge can be a can indeed be a music club, etc. But how much of this is value added to scouting in general? How much time and energy is expended on insular OA activity tha

SR540, I can verify that uniform police are real. Four councils I've been in as an adult, and the UP are not mythical creatures. We have a few right here in our little internet family. A kind word-to-the-wise, private, helpful hint in the hallway isn't necessarily uniforming policing. But it can be if handled with the standard attitudinal hallmarks of uniform policing: smugness, nit picking, condescending, holier than thou, "hey you--caught ya!" and limited passion about more vital topics. And I've seen it done in public too. To borrow from Beavah's much more eloque

DLister, while the OA provides a valuable service to camps, I think councils could have work weekends that reach out to all scouts--a larger pool than OA. For the High Adventure places, the work crews could be formed the same way.

Eagle707, thanks, that's something to mull over. To borrow from another uniform thread: there was a time in scouting when full uniforms were the norm, and the only guidance most scouts and parents had was the scout handbook...very basic stuff. And the example set by leaders. Uniform police? I never saw any until I was an adult scouter in the '80s. Some folks, particularly older scouters, had some very eccentric touches to uniforming, but no one said anything--I think we saw it an individual flair, or their right as an old timer. Here's the irony: the more rules there are, the l

Interesting but really--does it matter? How relevant is OA today? If OA disappeared right now, what would be the impact to the BSA? Most lodges are inward-focused, patch-selling machines, and self congratulatory. The idea of cheerful service is an afterthought. The move to "honor society" is honest. By dropping the "camping" part, they at least reflect the fact that most lodge overnights are in the camp mess hall. I'm proud of my OA experiences, but I've seen OA slowly decline in influence over the last three decades.

Lisa, good point but I think there are many boys that would still like to show off that new star or life rank patch, even if they won't admit it. Clemlaw, your post really hit home. My cub and boy scout experiences ran the entire '70s, and I recall no uniform police, as we know them today. Yet most kids were properly uniformed. The leaders dressed the part and the kids mostly complied. Kids that had no uniform were not treated harshly--they were part of the club, for pete's sake. They were more than likely from poor families, and it wasn't nice to make them feel bad. The u

Skeptic, not sure about Kinney's final rank, but I fully agree that Eagle is not the end all/be all of the scouting experience. I've served with numerous folks in scouting and at work that stopped anywhere between Tenderfoot and Life, and they embody scouting ideals just as much as any Eagle. My daughter really likes Kinney's books--thanks for sharing this info, it's good news.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

My first day hike as a boy scout after crossing over from Webelos: In the jungle, Panama Canal Zone. Every scout had his own machete. No adults. The SPL (a Star scout if memory serves) was in charge. We were gone all day. Deep in the jungle. The SPL taught us alot. The kicker: every scout behaved himself. No horseplay with the machetes. No one go hurt. Learned a heck of alot about the jungle, but even more so about leadership. Trust encourages scouts to be mature. As for the topic at hand, I haven't used a machete in years. But I will always value t

A '50s throwback uniform--same material, color and cut as the original. BSA green and Explorer dark green. Simple and wore like iron.

Eagle92, your post made my day, thanks!

BDPT, while uniforming is a method, it does not automatically justify blindly following a non-binding administrative pamphlet "just because it says so and that's that." As for your example, if someone wanted to wear four pins on each collar, so be it. Won't get any grief from me. Silly looking? Perhaps. Out of reg? Yep...and so what. In the eyes of the beholder. It's a free country, and this is a volunteer org. Again, common sense is the key. Proper uniforming does not happen by thumping people over the head with the regulation. In my experience, the opposite happen

USFire, glad things are working out...best wishes!

Seattle, your comment about axes staying in the axe yard brought back a memory, and a chuckle: Summer camp, late '70s...our troop is on the verge of folding because of a big fallout with the adult leadership. So we fold into the sister troop nearby to go to camp. Big mistake! Their SM is a tyrant, through and through. Drives everyone nuts. Mid way thru the week, I'm leaning on the axe yard fence, watching a buddy chop wood and shooting the breeze when he rests. Then I see my PL, face red as a beet, walking at a high rate of speed, comes into the axe yard uninvited...he h

As a proponent of wearing the pin on the uniform, and being a career military guy (25+ AF), I'll tackle this one. To keep a potential screed to minimum, I'm all for proper uniforming. I've proudly worn my military uniform for many years now. And privately, I disagree with some of the rules, but I've got to set the example. So I do, without grousing (except amongst a few close friends). However, BSA uniforming is not now, nor will it ever be, on par with the requirements of military uniforming. The scout uniform is bought and worn by volunteers. The uniform guide is an administra

Art, I hear what you are saying. However, the three scouts have stepped beyond the arena of their home troop and are now serving in highly visible leadership positions. As such, they have to meet the standards. I'm all for wide latitude in troop autonomy, but once a scout or scouter steps up to district, council, or OA leadership role, they gotta look and act the part of BSA spokesmen.

As a UC, I'm not looking forward to selling this program to my units. At the end of the day, it's another "program"--meaning paperwork, committee work, and meetings, dreamed up by a team of MBAs. Unit level leaders already have enough of this. I think something a little more dynamic would be helpful. Seems like a rehash of Total Quality Management, where, truly, the journey (tedium) never ended.

Eagle92, Now that I think it, I think the answer is both vintage and current! Amazing how relevant some of these old items still are.

Love the surplus places! In addition to mil stuff, they often carry cut-rate civilian gear too. As a scout in the '70s, found many bargains at army surplus that helped with my family's budget. Still have a few of those items, like a pair of civilian made big leather mittens that I used as a scout in AK...with a pair of wool inserts, I can honest say my hands never got cold. Also have a 1945 entrenching tool that has seen much abuse over the years, and still works great today. From other sources, also thinking of surplus wool pants (though long gone, they were great for winter ca

Please wear it with pride, on your uniform. As stated above, left pocket flap is the usual place.

I'd wear the pin. Proudly.

Pie rocks!

Gunny, thanks for sharing that. I wish more councils utilized your approach.