desertrat77

Packsaddle--that was a good one, I walked right into it!

Not sweating what a comic book character might or might not do. Bigger fish to fry in real life.

We were stationed in Kansas and I learned quickly to respect the deadliness of these type of storms. I truly admire the experts who study and report storm progress, and those that serve in emergency preparedness and first responders. There are strong bonds with neighbors when disaster is near. Thoughts and prayers to all......

Sean, welcome! And I agree with your observations--lots of change. And the uniform...well, you said it best.

Anthony, welcome!

Skeptic, thanks sharing your insight into unit level scouting--the heart of our BSA. Hope ya'll enjoy the weekend. I hear you about the price of food...sign of the times for sure. Ah,camping amongst the bovines...as I recall, the thoroughly dried cow pies made for good camp fires.

Old_OX_Eagle83, I'm sure they'll appreciate your leadership. On the other hand, in my most recent council (military mover), I've offered to be active in the OA several times (talking to the adult advisor) and have received a polite stiff arm each time. Can't even get them to take my dues. And I haven't been here long enough to offend anybody! From what I see, the lodge is small, active, and very insular. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...if they are happy, that's what counts. I'll just continue to wear my lodge flap from two moves ago.

Don't know of any ceremony, but tradition usually calls for a few words of thanks, and a nice gift, at the closing campfire. Bryan's idea of a scrapbook is superb.

Packsaddle--good catch, I think I was flashing back to another discussion! Apologies for not paying attention.

FScouter, A "disconnect" can occur when segments of an organization have differing ideas of how the organization should appear to the public, what priorities to espouse, and yes, what kind of stuff to stock in the store. Touting a new product line of expensive coins in this economy shows a disconnect between National and unit level scouting. How cool would it be if, instead, National had a marketing push to make scouting more affordable in key areas--uniforms, camping gear--rather than pump out more premium products. A campaign to "let's help the scouts and the parents" would resonant quite well, I think.

In addition to the business angle of all these high priced doo dads, there is the appearance factor. What company starts a new product line of high end coins in this economy? The sheer quantity of other pricey stuff (cummerbunds!?), to me, shows a disconnect between National and the reality of typical unit level incomes.

Camp should be fun. One week, ten days, whatever length your camp term is, it flies by. Chip away on first class progress at home. Enjoy the unique stuff that only long term camp offers.

Bar back. No job was ever more aptly named. Showed up well before the bartenders, and hit all the grunt work--cases, kegs, ice, racks of glasses. Set up the bar for the bartenders. A good work out, even before opening time. Then rush around all night replenishing stock, washing glasses, bouncer (as needed--the ones paid to be bouncers were notoriously absent when needed), and sometimes tend bar when things got really nuts. Heavy smoke, loud music....... After closing time, stay another hour cleaning up the mess.

Old_OX_Eagle83 Well said.... I completed Brotherhood in '79, was a vice lodge chief, and after a couple long breaks, returned to scouting a few years ago. Went to a conclave two years ago that sounded alot like the one you attended. The only things "OA" were the sashes and lodge flap sales.

Wingnut, congratulations and thanks for sharing your good news with us!

Sounds like alot of work and something else to carry in the pack..... Why not use biodegradable paper and avoid the hassle?

Scoutfish, I'm 6'1'', and I know how you feel. Just a thought: maybe the root cause of the pain isn't solely getting dressed in a tiny pup tent.... Maybe it's the accumulated pain of carrying heavy stuff, walking long distance, and standing for long periods of time. And on the weekends when you backpack, you are toting more heavy stuff for longer periods. I'd recommend looking at your pack as well--size, load, the whole deal. Sometimes a new style pack, carrying less, etc., helps alot.......

Kudu, congrats on a great trek and the after action report! Interesting how the scouts responded to adventure and leadership challenges. Those that desire adventure thrive, and those that don't, stay home or will stay home next time. A trek like this will be remembered, and valued, much longer than any adult-run trip.

I too agree with the "whole fee up front" plan. Or do quarterly installments. Status quo: "Pay this fee...now buy this overpriced uniform...now sell this popcorn...now contribute to FOS...." It's more than a monetary issues--it's about respect as well.

BadenP--thanks for the info, that made my day! The uniform could be made in the US, if National got behind the effort......

I've seen both schools of thought--inspect or not--and I prefer the "no inspection." Even if the scout has a full uniform, I can understand a parent's reluctance to let their son take it camping, only to have it come home ripped or soiled beyond repair, for the sake of an extra point or two for competition. Best practice: small council that encouraged scouts to wear whatever the troop decided throughout the weekend, and then wear full uniform Sunday morning for final flag ceremony and chapel.

Kudu, "indifference" was my attempt at being subtle! I was a scout 74 - 81, and remember comparing my first scout book with one from the '60s. My '70s version didn't measure up to the old one, in any category. The new one was very, very light on the outdoors. I was an SPL near the end of my scouting days when the Green Bar Bill rewrite of the scout handbook came out in '79. I was quite happy as it seemed that the spirit of scouting that seeped thru the pages of that '60s version was present in the '79 edition. I agree with BadenP's observations in other threads about the appearance of Mr. Mazzuca's goals--it appears as if Mr. Mazzuca is trying to revive that old '70s program, and give it one more try. (BadenP, hope I capture that right--if not my apologies.) Thankfully Philmont and other HA venues still exist. Units can adopt adventure and stay away from prolonged lectures at the camp mess hall. But if National is moving away from the outdoors, I submit this impacts recruitment (not only numbers but also the temperment of adults and scouts who may or may not join) and the public image of the BSA. It sure did in the '70s. Regarding fitness and participating in the outdoors: the young ones don't fault us old folks for losing a step or two on the field. They do lose respect when we don't even try. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Indeed--leadership sets the tone. National's not-so-subtle indifference towards adventure/outdoors sends signals. If birds of a feather don't like to camp, they won't. And they will be more prone to recruit other birds of the same feather. This impacts the organization as a whole. Some folks like to be outdoors. Others like to be indoors and hold meetings. Yes, a troop can decide to buck the trend and be outdoors--thank goodness, that is still true.

Lots of wisdom in the posts above. I did alot of reading at scouter.com before I posted regularly. There will be times here when things get heated, people stray from the original topic, we re-hash the same things over and over again, tilt at windmills, etc..... I think that's okay. That's the wonderful thing about scouter.com. I too remember the unnamed forum member who was, shall we say, a bit "spirited" in his discussions, and loved to quote chapter/verse. Yet it does not surprise me in the least that he is a decent fellow. If it will help someone in "real" life, as opposed to this virtual one, to take me to task for a position I take on any given topic, I see that as a good thing...it may help us both in the long run.

While OA is still active in parts of the BSA (as described in other threads), from my travels as a military guy, I see the OA in decline overall. No public sense of why it exists. It would be nice to turn back the clock and make tougher cuts of who could join--and they should indeed be honor campers--but that era is long gone and not likely to be revived in this era of "everybody is a winner." The good news: we don't need to re-formulate the OA. Rather, we need to go back and revisit, and embrace, what E. Urner Goodman said about brotherhood and cheerful service. The keys to OA's success are there--they are just buried under a 500 short tons of OA flaps. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)