desertrat77

Sentinel, excellent idea. I have one thing that jumps to mind, and it is seared there because of a particular experience: the scouts need to be instructed that this event is NOT the time to chit-chat and visit with fellow scouts, but actively engage in conversation with parents and potential scouts. It may be out of their comfort zone, but this is the time to learn to mingle. Look people in the eye, firm handshake, speak clearly, be polite. I was a UC in my previous district, and a unit had a open house. The youth that showed up received zero interaction from the scouts. They sat there, isolated and kind of off balance, while the scouts yakked and hooted and laughed with each other, and ignored the visiting youth from start to finish. The unit leaders did nothing about it. Nothing I tried could induce any of the scouts or scouters to show any attention to the visitors. I felt horrible, and still do. Needless to say, zero recruits that night. Same dynamic in other organizations as well. During a deployment several years ago, we'd host local national civic leaders now and again at our location. I can still hear the commander telling the staff "I better not see any two of you talking to each other during this event, it's about the guests!" Even then, there were times when birds of a feather did indeed flock together, as humans will in socially challenging situations. The commander or his vice would ease by and quietly say "break it up!"

The problem with many uniforms--BSA and otherwise--is that they are designed by people that aren't physically active in the organization any more (headquarters-types) and then field tested by people who are closely connected with and highly committed to the organization. I saw this in the military, too. The result? Group think. "Gosh, that's a great uniform!" When it really isn't. When the uniform is fielded, the rest of the organization has their say. If they don't like it? Well, too late and tough luck. Criticize it and you are labeled a malcontent and a half-stepper. Then the uniform is looked down upon, not worn properly, worn hodge-podge, or not worn at all. And the public snickers when they see it worn. The key components for a good BSA uniform? In no order of precedence: - Affordable - Rugged - Appeals to wearers' pride - Tells the public "this is an outdoor organization" If National picked a group of a) random and b) active-in-the-outdoors scouts and scouters, and turned them loose on the internet and/or in a big outdoors store, they could assemble a good-looking, functional uniform pretty quick. There are clothes out there already that fit the bill for scouting use. Why reinvent the wheel?

Loy, I'm sorry to say you are not alone in what you experiencing. Many dedicated scouters are confronting the same situations. Good advice offered above, both pro and con. I agree with both camps. Do the best with the hand you are dealt, but after a certain point if you've got to fold, fold. Many a good scouter has burned out, to the detriment of their mental and physical health, as well as family, because they kept a unit afloat by sheer willpower, long after it should have just folded. Gotta keep that unit open, even just on paper, so the thinking goes. No one wants a unit to fold. But scouting has a long history of burning out leaders who are the only ones that stand in the breach and keep the unit alive. Years and experience have me thinking differently now. You know where the line is...listen to your gut and if you've got to close operations, close it and don't look back and don't feel guilty. Your well being and your family's is more important. If there are cubs and parents that still want scouting, they'll find some place else and step up there.

As a scout in the '70s, I wore the green uniform of the era. Not great, not bad. Nothing to write home about. Then the ODLR was adopted in the '80s. Kind of pricey. Not particularly rugged. Nor comfortable. More suited for indoor activity. I disliked them for many years. Wore it faithfully in town. In the field, a '50s era uniform from the thrift store worked best. Well, perspective is everything. The Centennial uniform made me eat my words about the ODLR. By comparison, the ODLR was darn fine! Enjoying the discussion about uniform psychology. I've since retired from the military, after 30 years on active duty. Many hours and brain cells spent on uniforms, enforcement of regulations, drafting standards, etc. I'll spare everyone a potentially long screed on the subject, but I'll offer this: If a uniform a) looks dumb and b) does not withstand the rigors of the profession, folks won't wear it properly, nor with pride, and it will get a bad rap from wearers and observers alike. You can't overlook public perception. While you may be a truly dedicated scout/scouter, and wear whatever uniform National fields with pride, the public gets a vote. If the BSA uniform makes the wearer look like a nerd/circus tent, it will impact recruiting, fundraising and civic support in general.

Tawhawk, While some folks are fine with the idea of sixteen page forms, I'm not. I have plenty of BSA-related red tape on my plate, and non-BSA as well. The thought of doing more? No thanks. And I'm not alone on that count. Is there any written history on what BP expected as proof of "practical administration?" Sure, the song mentions a ticket, but how was it implemented in England?

Good question..by original, I meant BP's WB plan from 1919. The closest thing I could find to a ticket was this: ------------------------------------------- "iii. Administration: The practical administration of his Troop or District as shown by the results of 18 months work." ------------------------------------------- Source: http://www.neic-woodbadge.org/wbo_uk.html But let's back up a bit. If I read the history correctly, the participants were presented one bead for passing parts i and ii: --------------------------------------- "i. Theoretical: Aims and methods of the Scout Training as defined in Aids to Scoutmastership, Scouting for Boys and Rules in such subjects as Organisation according to ages. Four lines of training: Nature lore for soul, health and sex knowledge; National need and possibilities of the Training. A course of four studies either by correspondence in the Headquarters Gazette or by weekend attendances at Gilwell Park as desired by the candidate. This will form a winter course. ii. Practical: In four groups of subjects: 1. Troop ceremonies and campcraft 2. Field work and pioneering 3. Woodcraft and Scout games 4. Signcraft and pathfinding The Training will be at Gilwell Park in four weekend courses or eight days in camp as most convenient to the candidate." -------------------------------------- After i and ii, If they fulfilled part iii, they received a second bead and a diploma. I'm keen on the words "practical administration of his troop or district." Seems somewhere along the way, WB tickets went from a logical application of learned principles to something else entirely. The way I've heard WBers describe the ticket, it can be anything from mysterious to mystical, requiring much revision and rejection of the draft, etc. The ticket workbook is 16 pages, and metric driven. Ahem. Granted, "what you don't measure you can't improve" is true. Dr. Deming is with us still. But does scouting need to have the big paperwork drill to determine if a WB grad has indeed practically administrated his/her troop or district? I don't think so. The WB senior staffers can be the judge of that by observation and a conversation over a cup of coffee several months later. Also, "practical administration" isn't as nearly glamorous as the lofty goals of the 16 page ticket book. I'd venture to say that practical administration is more stabilizing and longer-lasting. No need to swing for the fence on every pitch.

As a former scout who did a good bit of winter camping in AK as a youth, I see much good advice in the preceding posts. The tent itself won't make much of a difference, as far as temps are concerned. In AK, our troop had the McKinley style tents. Darn fine tent. But once it got cold, it was just flat cold. The main benefits of the tent (any tent): keeping the wind and snow away from you while you are inside. Focus on moisture control, sleeping apparel, sleeping bag, and where you keep your water and the clothes you want to wear the next day. Our troop was fortunate enough to have a bunch of old GI chicken-feather mummy bags. Each scout was issued two bags. Put one bag inside the other. Boots go underneath the bag, under the knees, between bag and tent floor. Next day's clothing, and canteen, zipped up safely between outer/inner bags. Zip both bags up, align the face holes, and settle in. As crude as this system sounds, it worked like a charm, even in below zero temps. The old mummy bags had seen better days, but this system worked well. Though they have long since disappeared from surplus stores, I'm sure there is a modern equivalent/workaround.

- Outdoors - No ticket (just like the original WB)

Uniform, and congratulations!

Mr. Eagle Scout is due for a one-way conversation... Point blank: observed behavior...the effect...why it is wrong...what I except from you in the future...consequences if you cross the line again. Anything less will not be effective. Given he is an eagle, I'd recommend skipping the PLC or more oblique alternatives. He'll laugh those off. The fact he's played most everyone previously, he'll only understand one thing: a direct call out, I'm hip to your game, and it won't fly in this troop. He'll get the point. It may be a life changing event for him. Guys like this are rarely confronted, and they continue their negative behavior in college, marriage, career. Too late then. He has the opportunity to change now, while he is young.

I don't necessarily agree with that. These folks are volunteers, like most of us, with families, jobs, and probably other scouting duties. I don't think making themselves available on a pre-determined schedule that is made known to all ahead of time is unreasonable. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the EBOR members make themselves available at the drop of a hat to accommodate someone who consciously waited until the last minute. I can see making an exception for something that is truly an emergency or unforeseen, but I don't see that here. I'm not saying I agree with the decision to not allow him to do it in the short time frame, though. Agreed, there should be boundaries, but in this case, it seemed the board was thinking of their own schedule and convenience rather than showing some flexibility. From my understanding of the facts, the board's strict adherence to their monthly meeting schedule subtracted another 30 days from the scout's available time. If that's the case, then it's all about the district, and not enough about supporting unit level scouting.

Very true Pack, I was suggesting "one step at a time"...once the Tenderfoot gets the hang of it with one match, next thing he knows, he's a Second or First Class, a little older, more seasoned and ready to try the flint.

Dean, good thoughts and I really got a kick out of your FOS suggestion! A beverage would be helpful!

JoeBob, I agree with Barry's viewpoint--the younger scouts are your target audience, the foundation for a true outdoor troop. The senior scouts are too set in their ways. They'll move on eventually. The Tenderfoot and Second Class scouts are absorbing the outdoor emphasis, even if they don't realize it right now. The spark is there--the hike where they saw the bear, looking at a campfire with a deep bed of glowing coals and thinking "hey I started that with one match," cooking dinner in the rain yet surviving it with good humor, leaving the tent rolled up and falling asleep looking at a million stars.... These moments are taking root. When they are First Class and Star, they'll be ready to actively transform the troop culture from car-camping to adventure, at the scout level. The very best days of the troop are just ahead.....

The district Eagle BOR is out of line. I understand weather delays, but to confine their district duties to a fixed schedule is wrong. Weather aside, they could have still discussed it over the phone or via email, had a quick meeting at diner after the roads were clear, etc., so this scout can have a shot at getting the project done. The board's viewpoint should be "So you think you can get all this done in a short time? Good luck to you, scout, let us know how it goes." Potentially, there is a great story here, particularly if the scout gets the project done, and does it right. The board isn't there to operate at their personal convenience, nor limit scouts. Must also say, the scout owns part of the blame. A good lesson to all Life Scouts everywhere--control what you can control, when you can. The calendar and Fates are not always friendly.

Campaign hats used to be functional items. Not sure what they were made of back in the day, but old photos show folks wearing them covered with dust, stained with sweat, brims bent or uneven. Over the decades, they became more expensive and the quest for a flat brim and sharp look overruled functionality. Same fate for the neckerchief--functional item transforms over the years to formal wear.

Excellent! "...replaced by the Oath and Law." Spot on. We teach scouts to live by the Oath and Law, train them to properly use and respect wood tools of all kinds, and expect them to act like adults. This not only prevents safety issues, but instills character. The leaders that come up with 1 million rules to attempt to prevent every accident or contingency are rarely effective. Because they fundamentally don't trust or respect people. And the people know it. I was on camp staff as a scout for 3 summers, and the camp director followed the Oath/Law model outlined by Tahawk. At the opening campfire, he'd say "We only have 12 rules in this camp--the Scout Law. Follow the Oath and Law, and we'll have a successful week." That's all he said about conduct. It worked like a charm. Bonus memory: I carried a fixed blade Buck 102 every summer. Other scouts and staffers carried sheath knifes too. No one gave it a second thought.

Well said.

Concur, the project has become a big paperwork drill. Too much red tape, that stifles the spirit of even the best projects. There should be much more latitude and less layers of bureaucracy. But if the requirement to do a project would suddenly vanish, I'd be fine with that too. As Packsaddle pointed out, there was a time a project wasn't required. Didn't hurt the Eagles or the BSA none. Might be apples/oranges/off topic: why do a ticket in WB? WBers graduated from their courses and got beads, for decades, without the ticket. Same or different?

Whew, brotherhood of honor campers indeed. Scratch that, "honor society." Sounds like leadership just wants to get things wrapped up and on the road for home as soon as possible. No need to have the candidates under restrictions at dinner. Self imposed red tape by leadership.

Volunteers are turned away all of the time in the BSA, depending on your location. Seen it myself. Usually because of an entrenched Good Olde Boys/We Are the Official Old Timers mentality. Tough nut to crack, and usually not worth the effort. Death by a thousand slights. No volunteer should put up with that. Just encourage the volunteers to look for another unit or district. They will be welcome somewhere. Parents calling at the last minute: this is the way of the world, it baffles me. Everything is last minute. Folks don't RSVP. Everyone has a smart phone, but they won't answer a call, return a call, reply to an email, or a text. But the day of the event, they'll call you and demand the moon. Telling them "no" is okay. And quite liberating. Surprisingly, the scouts will get over it quicker than their parents. Most parents learn the lesson quickly. Blue/Gold: I concur. I'm convinced it's the leaders driving that trend. Trying to impress themselves. The cubs don't care, so long as they have a tasty meal, get their badges and have a bit of fun. Thanks for making a difference in scouting. Please take care and don't burn out. If things don't improve, don't hesitate to give back some (or all) of your responsibilities and stick with a job that you like. Your well being and that of your family is priority one.

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly: Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car. Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago. Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it. Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

It will be there when you get back. Trust me. Take care and let us know how it goes.

SR, I concur. I'm in OK too. I was previously stationed in CA. When we got orders for OK, I was never so happy to cross that state border, leaving CA behind. There are great scouters in CA, doing their best for the BSA, but they have their work cut out for them.

When I was in the military, and moving a lot, I had the same experience. In one council, most adult Eagles wore their medal to ECOHs. I moved, new council, wore mine to an Eagle dinner, and I was the only adult there wearing it.