desertrat77

I agree!

Skeptic, you've got me wondering: what specifically could/would he get beat up about? Sure, there are lots of pressing issues for him to tackle, but I'm curious which ones come to mind?

I also hire out hems and other technical work, but try as I might, my patch sewing skill self-arrested many years ago! They stay on, but there are giant uneven stiches in places and some patches have a slight list. LOL re the haircut--I understand completely--even in an organization with uniforms, we are still individuals.

Eagle94, this very scenario is what prompted me to have a shirt with my knots, such as they were, but I don't wear it any more. There are certain scouters than scan your shirt for knots (and WB beads) and then make a value assessment about you, right then and there. Interesting how many of the people who do the "heavy lifting" in scouting don't have a single knot. I've never wore the gold devices on the knots--you mention they are a pain. Is it how they are built, or their reliability for staying attached?

MGood, good evening, and did you sew those knots on yourself? Doggone, they are straight as an arrow, with discrete stitches. Seriously, I'm impressed! I'll spare you a photo of my sewing attempt...it works but it's rather crude. Your experiences with scout store purchases struck a cord...most scout stores I've been to sold me whatever I asked for. A couple asked for proof of Eagle.

Thanks JoeBob, much appreciated, I've got the second round...Looking at that website, I am suddenly possessed by a powerful thirst!

From what I've seen, the scouter keeps track of the knot requirements him/herself, gets the initials on the sheet/card as they go, and submits it to the appropriate authority for signature. They are all available for pdf download at the BSA website. Now and then, someone (CC, district chair, DE) might give a nudge to people who they know are close or have completed the knot already. The paperwork gets filled out (with a little foot dragging and muttering) and then there are some well-deserved presentations at banquets. I've got one shirt with my knots sewn on--two from my youth, two as an adult--but I rarely wear it. My usual uniform shirt has the Eagle knot solo, because I generated just enough interest to sew it on, and then lose interest in the others. My AOL knot is nice, but I don't wear it. The training award (when I was an ASM) and commissioner's key? Doing my job. For those that like knots, more power to them. I know some genuinely kind, warmhearted folks that have a dozen of them, salt of the earth. On the other hand, I too have experienced the powerful, condescending glare and tone the aforementioned Banana Republic Generals, who wear their knots (and devices thereon) so as to exert authority and glean respect from lesser scouters, such as myself. Good times!

Post script: Fred, when I think about the toxic districts I've been in the past, there is no "fixing" the relationship. With these types of districts, there isn't a meeting of the minds. The troops surrender to the will of the district personalities, or accept the fact that there will be conflict. No middle ground, other than mutual avoidance. Though I like my job on the district staff and it works with my crazy work schedule, it's not "mission essential." So weighty responsibilities like recharter signatures and popcorn sales administration can gently fade away, and the troops will be just fine.

Fred, JoeBob has summed it up quite well, hit the nail on the head...the truth is, the districts aren't really needed, if push came to shove. Just some admin stuff that a council staffer could take care of. I say this as a guy serving on a district staff. So as I think about my service to the units, I remember that a) they really don't need me specifically to have a successful program, and b) whatever I do should bolster their unit program. Districts shouldn't add extra work for the units, nor detract from their unit activities. If we have a district event, it is for the units' benefit, not the district's. Above all, we respect and encourage the units. We work for them. Too often a district can be a beehive of self-made importance and unnecessary activity.

Re the SPLs working together: I've seen good results from this. SPLs are usually senior scouts, graduated PLs, and have been mentored by their adult leaders. They've seen enough of scouting to know what scouts what, what they don't, and how to plan events.

Moosetracker, please look again at the original proposal: the district dictates to a troop "thou shalt run the camporee, and obey the orders of the district staff, without deviation. If you decline, you cannot attend the camporee." "Thou shalt" rarely brings about goodwill and mutual respect. The broken districts I've been in had one common theme: the districts, through their attitudes and actions, considered the units to be nothing more than manpower and FOS pools. I've been in a couple where qualified scouters volunteered to serve in a district vacancy--only to be told no, and not very politely at that. Every district is different in temperament. Some are good, many are indifferent/inefficient, and some are downright awful to their units. Seen it with my own eyes.

Fred, serious question: if a district ceases, what is the tangible impact on the units? There are many units in the BSA that are not served, or ill-served, by their district. If those kinds of districts vanish, what is the impact on a troop that is plugging along, taking care of business already without district help?

BadenP, I'm sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, this scenario is happening more and more across the BSA.

Good memories! As a military brat, I recall that most Air Force bases had a scout building...thinking back on our moves: a building adjacent to the base horse stables...a WWII barracks...another wooden barracks, '50s era...then a non-descript old building that was designed by a mad-man and remodeled several times.... As others have said, the scout hut can be a blessing, and occasionally, a white elephant. Still, it seems troops would rather have one than not.

Moosetracker, as you said it still takes a lot of coordination. The units I work with are doing good to meet regularly and execute their troop activities for the year, much less do the district's job. Sure, if the call goes out, they'll individually volunteer to help at a district event to the extent that they can, and they'll do a darn good job. But a formal tasking from the district, to run a district event? It strikes me as too heavy handed.

LeCastor, right on!

Fred, I must respectfully disagree...as an adult scouter, I've served on five different district staffs across the US. Except for my present district, all of them had plenty of district scouters that thought scouting began and ended at the district, and the units "worked for the district." Many of them had not served at the unit level in years, if ever. It is the district scouters' "I outrank you" attitude that makes a hash of things. As I mentioned earlier, it's tough enough to get your troop to camporee much less be tasked to run the thing--with zero creative input, no less.

Oldisnewagain1, I agree, it's all backwards! - It won't promote district participation, at least not the participation of the district staff - Enough volunteers? Sure. Instead of the district recruiting volunteers to serve as staff, the burden will fall on the troop to find the volunteers to run the district camporee. I recall my troop days--it was challenging enough to get enough adults to take the troop to the camporee, much less find more people to run the entire thing. - Taking the "burden" off the troop of coming up with the theme/events? Again, all backwards. Creating a theme and list of events is the easy part. Getting the manpower and executing the events it the hard part. I could almost buy the concept (but not quite) IF the troop had the say-so on theme and events. Then they'd have the motivation really put on a great camporee. But to be the designated flunky manpower pool for the district? So wrong, so many levels. I guess the DC member proposing this "concept" must have this in mind as a creed: "Nothing is impossible...as long as you are not the one doing the work!:

Eagle94, I don't have an brilliant insights to help, but I'd like to at least say "thanks for your leadership" and I hope it works out.

Bad Wolf, this is spot on, thanks.

So if I read it right, the hosting troop is a) directed to hold the camporee, and if they accept, they b) would have the responsibility to run it, and c) yet no authority to run their way? If I was still wearing an SM/ASM patch, my vote would be "no thanks." Or words to that effect, as this is a family-oriented forum. Then we might find some other like-minded troops and have our own encampment. With zero district involvement.

Eagle94, just discovered this thread, and was wondering how you and the committee are doing? Not that it's a merger, but we share a DE with another district. The key issue is geography. Sharing leaders and resources sounds good on paper till you have to get in the truck and drive at the end of a long day.

The '70s uniform! Funky!

"No takers on the red berets though. That was beyond useless." Stosh, I'll say this much about the red beret: on campouts, they made great pot holders. When you're cooking bacon in that aluminum frying pan, the beret came in handy (for once).

Stosh, I agree, people won't join LE or the military if they don't like the uniform. But uniforms change. In my 30 years in the Air Force, the uniforms changed several times, and not always for the better. Well, I'm not going to ask for a discharge because I don't like the fact that my sharp, traditional uniform was replaced by a ill-designed potato sack (our service dress uniform, circa 94). I made the best of it, got it tailored, and wore it proudly. But secretly biting my tongue, wondering what they could have possibly been thinking when they designed the darn thing. But that still didn't stop my Airmen from griping about uniforms (dress or utility)--didn't fit well, not sturdy enough, stains too easily, too expensive, too heavy, too light, etc, etc., etc. I framed it as best as I could for them: it's a uniform, wear it, be proud of it, worry about something else. Good uniforms, they won't complain. They'll complain about anything, including the steak/lobster at the chow hall on Sunday, but if the uniform is good, they wear it and don't say a word. Opposite for crummy uniforms. An unending stream of griping, unless it's nipped in the bud (heard, acknowledged, drop it, press on!). Good question about what the scouts think when they sign up. My hunch is they are joining for the outdoor stuff, and not really thinking the uniform angle through till they get to the scout store and say "what?" Or the troop they sign up for doesn't have a strict uniform policy. So, summing up my rambling here, I'll state that I'm 100 percent pro-uniform. But I'm also 100 percent against crummy, expensive uniforms, particularly in a volunteer organization. Many folks like the BSA uniform, and just as many if not more are either ambivalent or can't stand it.