desertrat77

The best thing the "normal" patrol can do is to make up their collective mind to beat those old teen patrols, decisively, without the aid of a handicap/age/rank system. They'll learn that determination and extra training will make the victory all the sweeter. But that's the kicker--the extra training. Can't wait until the last troop/patrol meeting before the derby to brush up on skills. Must start at least a month prior. If they've got the gumption, they can do it. PS The key lesson for the patrol is the fact they have to overcome the challenge, without the help of the adults. How they do this is the wonderful thing about working together as a patrol.

I have a Korean-war era GI canteen cup that I've had since my scouting days in the '70s...can't imagine being outdoors without it. I also have a BSA metal match safe, circa '76, that I carry.

Yucca packs rock! My original from the '70s is long gone, but I have a couple others that I use regularly. Simple and tough.

Good point--I concur.

Past: OA was a society of honor campers; it wasn't easy to be elected. It was also a service organization. Present: OA is neither. As some posts point out, there are active lodges. But not many. Most places, the OA is as dead as a door nail. Some operate their chapter/lodge like a private club, focused on their own social activities and designing an endless number of lodge flaps. The day-to-day activities of your troop are far more important.

Eagle is but a moment in time. Congratulations, Eagle. Enjoy your moment...for a moment. Now put your pack on and continue hiking, there are many more challenging trails ahead in life.

"I have friends who did not get that far, but I would trust with my life in the outdoors if things hit the fan." I agree 100 percent, Eagle 92!

Basement, good question. Getting ready to retire from the military, serving in my fourth (and final!) council in the space of six years...a couple of rambling thoughts, if you please.... - Eagle has been cheapened by the emphasis on numbers...with National leading the charge. - It's been awhile since I've seen the "all Eagles please stand" deal. But when it does happen, I only stand for .5 of a second and sit down. It IS embarrassing! What about all the great former scouts, of all ranks, in the audience? What about the great scouters who weren't scouts as a kid? It's just misguided to distinguish between scouters that way. - Most of my experience has been at the other end of the spectrum. In two of the four councils, there have been very few scouter who were Eagles. I never say a word about being an Eagle and neither do they. Bottom line: I know good Eagles, but the best scouters I've served with are the former scouts who may have topped out at Star, who served honorably as a scout, with lots of nights under the stars and trail miles under the belts. These folks are the salt of the earth and keep the flame of scouting alive in their units or at whatever level they serve.

Stosh and Builder, I salute you both and respect your spirit! Even if the years and miles catch up with us, we can always instill the spirit of outdoor adventure throughout the BSA. On the other hand, there are scouters that don't like the outdoors. You can see first hand how their sedentary mindset impacts programming...and it's not for the good of scouting.

A boy scout not being proficient in knots is like a cop being a poor marksman, or a carpenter being bad at fractions, or a wide receiver who can't catch a football. There are certain skills that inseparable from their profession. Though it's been over 35 years, I use the knots from my scouting days regularly. The other day, I helped a friend pull down some dead trees on his property. Using different width tow straps, I was tying taut line hitches, an occasional sheet bend, and the timber hitch like gang busters. Worked like a charm. We live in an age of "familiarization is good enough." Not true. Some skills are musts. Knot proficiency is one of those if we wish to claim the titles "scout" or "scouter." If scouts or scouters want to avoid being nervous about basic scout skills, they've got to practice, and take pride in their craft. If I can do it, anyone can!

Whew. What a list. Alas, the spirit of WB continues to escape me. I'll struggle on, though, in my un-beaded, unwashed state.

JoeBob, here is a strange tale about money.... I was in Mount Diablo Silverado Council, CA, last year. (Since moved out of state). Huge area, this council, including well-to-do districts, and ones poor as church mice. There was an effort to merge MDSC with SF Bay Area Council, but the motion ultimately was defeated. Back story/word on the street: SF Bay Area Council had incredible funding from trusts and such, more money than they could spend. Couple that with declining youth and adult numbers, SFBAC proposed the merger to help MDSC with financial needs, among other benefits that would come about from such an effort. Don't know why the merger was voted down. But I was shocked to hear of a council, any council, having money!

Eagle92, thanks, that made my day!

Basement, though I'm several months behind in replying, I would welcome that opportunity to visit over a beverage!

Advancement and adventure used to coexist in the BSA. I recall, as a scout in the '70s, some encouragement. But not much. Most leaders took the angle: If you want to earn Eagle, great, get to work and let me know how it goes. If you don't, that's fine, glad you are in the troop, hope you are enjoying the camping and backpacking. To bring that ideal back, we'd have to officially stop emphasizing the metric of "how many scouts earned Eagle." That isn't going to happen.

Krampus, I'd like to offer a different view on the Jambo patch. I view those old patches as heritage. The folks that wear the patches took part in BSA history. If they are still wearing a uniform, it shows tenure too. Disclaimer: I've never been to a jambo and have no intention of doing so. Not my thing. But I support the folks who go. Philmont was my pinnacle of scouting as a youth ('77).

...Bourbon and ice, tall glass, makes for a pleasant evening and good conversation. King DD, your hypothetical question officially makes this the best thread yet.

Scouter99, Believe me, I'm not criticizing, just observing. Especially when it comes to various kinds of trolling, subtle or overt. I for one can not judge anyone due to the beam in my own eye. We've covered a lot of ground here--guns, beer, scouter ratios, processed food in the chow hall, healthy food from elsewhere, camp routines, preparedness v. paranoia--and that's not all. Frankly, this is the most interesting thread I've seen here in awhile.

A lot going on in this thread.

Stosh, thanks for those superb thoughts about canvas floorless tents. I have two of those. They are old BSA tents from the '60s--Miner and Voyager. I prefer them over any other tent. A much better camping experience overall.

61rover, well said and I agree.

Scoutnut, If your district does actual things to help scouters at the unit, congratulations. You and your district are rare birds. Truth is, lots of folks at districts around the nation aren't interested in unit level scouting. Nor in new folks joining the district. Nor in anything that is critical of the district. I'm not addressing summer camps and training and such. The main issue is getting UCs, and other district folks, off their duff to do their job. And, as for "district support," I'm disagreeing with SP's premise that if a unit scouter wants help from the district, Mr./Mrs Unit Scouter should pencil in another meeting and go visit the district folks. Or attend or volunteer to staff a district event that will help their unit. That's backwards. While I'm not telling you how to spend YOUR time, I'm am telling you how many unit scouters feel about THEIR time, and the dubious support from their district. If it is "n/a" for you and your district, so be it and thanks for your service.

SP, I'd respectfully recommend you re-read the original post. Howarthe isn't looking to volunteer for district activities, nor to become a district volunteer, but for the UC (if there is one) to perform assigned duties, which is to support her pack. I take the definition of "support" being how the UC can reach out to the pack, and enable the pack, not the unit leader reaching out to the district, so the district can dual-hat the unit leader in serving on both unit and district level. Also, I don't consider unit level leaders attending extra meetings at the district, nor calling the DC to ask for help, as definitions of "district support for units." I expect the UC to call the pack, show up, help in the background, and actually accomplish things that bolster unit activities.

Digital, your cubs aren't the only ones unhappy with the uniform. The BSA hasn't fielded a functional, durable, affordable, user-popular uniform since the early '70s. Today's uniforms are designed for sedentary activities, like passive listening at meetings, watching powerpoint slide shows and videos, crunching JTE metrics in a cubicle, and the like. Less patches--good move. Collarless shirts--check ebay, the prices are low these days. Removing the collars off a shirt? Interesting, but may require a level of expertise or cost that would make it prohibitive. Neckerchiefs--they used to be mostly cotton, and actually functional. Last decade or more, they are made of something, not sure what...little/no natural fibers, that's for sure. And uncomfortable. Again, ebay can be a good source for finding old school neckerchiefs that are actually comfortable, even when active. Check ebay and thrift stores. The cubs can save their expensive shirt for blue/gold, and wear a classic shirt (70s/60s for example). Back in the day, they made them cub-proof. As a cub from 71 - 74, I had one shirt, and it handled anything and everything.

SP, I think you have it backwards. The district needs to reach out to the units, and support unit events, not the other way around. The last thing a unit level scouter needs to do is attend yet another meeting at the district in hopes of a) the district noticing and supporting the unit or b) the district roping a unit level leader to volunteer at the district. Unit level leaders have enough on their plate as is without getting involved with a bunch of district scouters who obviously have no interest in what is going on out in the field, where real scouting takes place.