desertrat77

Tahawk, you make an excellent point about the outdoors and the BSA. Outdoor adventure is the BSA's number 1 selling point. Yet it's often downplayed and hidden on the back shelf in many places through two methods: - Lack of emphasis by National...watered down requirements as you mentioned, plus non-adventure programs like soccer and STEM competing for resources, etc. - Scout leaders at all levels that "don't like to camp" (proof that we're recruiting and retaining the wrong leaders)

An important word jumped out on that National slide: FAMILY. That's the key. When I was in a small rural district several years ago, events often included the whole family. The boys did their scouting thing, but there were also parents and girls camping as well, in a different area, socializing, and sometimes participating in events. It seemed a bit odd at first but then it made sense. Everyone attended the flag ceremonies and the closing campfire. The girls put on their GSA vests and stood with mom and dad. It worked. If you can get the whole family to go camping, and the program allows your daughters and your sons to be full fledged members--that will be a draw. 1 scouting organization for the whole family will be a boon. I'm nostalgic as the next old scouter, but this is the way its going. The girls are up for the challenge. They can handle it. The ones that want outdoor adventure will join. "But the GSA should...." Trust me, they don't and won't offer anything that resembles what the BSA does. Two completely different mindsets and objectives. Having an active Venture daughter getting ready for college, I can offer this observation: some of the boys don't like the coed stuff at first but they get with the program pretty quickly. My daughter says the folks that she gets resistance from are middle/older aged male scouters. Ranging from the cold shoulder to patronizing to outright rude. And trust me, she's not the sensitive type. As I get older and more curmudgeonly, here is a quote I keep handy: If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less. - General Eric ShinsekiChief of Staff, U. S. Army

Same here.

In a similar vein, National has been doing this for years in Boy's Life and Scouting magazines. Articles about "Great Gear for Your Next Hike," and the like, often tout outlandishly expensive Guicci gear that few scouts can afford.

If merit badges will help, I'd recommend 2 or 3. One of them should be swimming or pioneering or such, outdoor oriented. Random thoughts: - Being homesick is normal...even if home wasn't so great, as in my case back in the day...stay busy and it will pass - If the camp has a "first year camper" badge, recommend earning that. It's like a merit badge in the sense that it requires the scout to try a little bit of every activity around the camp. Earn a cool patch that will be treasured for decades to come. - Rain, bugs, and meals we don't like are a part of camp...just press forward, laugh about it later - Take time to enjoy the breeze off the lake, birds chirping, trees swaying in the wind, etc. Best wishes!

Agreed, it might help to connect the disconnected. Then again, their presence might also be a friction point for an otherwise great week at camp. Some execs would not be able to resist the urge to pull rank, bark orders, ruffle feathers, and otherwise act outside of their lane. I'm also thinking of the welfare of the execs. I'm not the only volunteer scouter who would not hesitate to tell an offending HQs scouter what I think.

I like the idea. Just so long as they can't pick the camps they go. Make it random. The only downside: some of the HQ types are not very good working around scouts. Or being in the outdoors. Or conversing with volunteers. After all, they work at National...they have it all figured out. They talk, we listen. You can see where they might lead. Most unit level volunteers aren't interested in ring-kissing. Many other execs would probably welcome the opportunity to escape the office, with its endless meetings, luncheons and such.

Concur with NJCubScouter--take the Troop Committee Challenge.

The impact of the Trained patch is truly "in the eyes of the beholder." I suspect most folks just assume we are all properly trained. Or that we should be, anyway.

Quitting is usually permanent. Won't see them again. Their choice. Exception: the scout who meanders back when he's a senior in high school, wanting to finish Eagle for that college application. No real interest in scouting per se, just looking for the bling. But such interest is short lived, once he realizes the amount of work involved.

GP, you astutely mentioned the quals you'll have to pursue once you arrive at your first duty station. Indeed, these are priority one. They are the foundation of your profession, be it a four year enlistment or a 30 year career. That said, I'd recommend volunteering as ASM sooner than later. Troops around bases usually understand the commitments of military life, and they'll work with you. You'll have more time to help the troop once you are finished with upgrade training (sorry, I know that isn't the proper USCG term, but that's what we called it in the Air Force ) Best wishes and thanks for serving our great country.

I agree, it would take alot of humility for the BSA to give GBB his rightful place of honor. I don't see it happening.

That's the thing, Stosh, National is flat footed at the very times nimbleness and strategic vision are needed. And to carry your card playing concept further, National loves to double-down on losing hands. Remember the Improved Scouting Program...a disaster from the get-go, yet it took about 8 years for the BSA to call Green Bar Bill off the bench to save the day.

Agreed! The BSA needs to dump a bunch of stuff, and get re-focused on outdoors and high adventure. The problem is there are too many leaders in positions of influence that don't think much of the outdoors.

I learned this the hard way at my first summer camp. Burned through my spending money pretty quick (five bucks). But loved to shoot. I made a deal with the range master: for every 100 pieces of spent brass I policed during non-shooting periods, he'd give me 2 rounds of .22 ammo during open shooting.

+1 Well said.

I'm not worried. National assured me that STEM and soccer are the keys to success.

As a scout, I was on camp staff at Camp Gorsuch for three summers, 78 - 80. Camp Carlquist (can't remember if that is its historical name) is about a 15 minute drive from Gorsuch. Back in the day, Carlquist was a church camp with nice facilities that the BSA would sometimes use for training and conclaves and such (Gorsuch was quite primitive then). As far as I can determine, the BSA acquired Carlquist from the church at some point. When I was a staffer at Gorsuch, we'd have four/five sessions for summer camp, plus a staff week. Last leaders' package I read on line, Gorsuch is down to two sessions. As with many summer camps, they might be increasing attendance during the sessions to save costs, or attendance has fallen off.

But did they go to there every month of the year, year after year?

RememberSchiff, good thoughts, but even with the CO issue aside, repeated trips to the local scout camp might backfire in the long run. Several moves ago, I was in a rural council in the deep South. They had a nice summer camp, small but good. However, the council and the district had several events each month at the camp--OA, roundtables, training, camporees, etc. There was a collective sense of "here we are again" and the specialness (for lack of a better word) that one usually associates with summer camp ("hurray, waited all year to get here!") was not there.

We should also keep in mind the scouts' perspective on the matter. Most scouts understand that an adult may need to go to town to take of business. Or perhaps once during the week just because. But when the word gets out that the adults are regularly going off-site to eat and amuse themselves, it will impact morale and the scouts' image of the scouters in question. It's not a matter of adults over-supervising. There is much to be said for adult scouters who consistently eat the same chow, walk the same trails, endure the heat and bugs and otherwise experience summer camp the same as the scouts. Credibility.

Sorry, couldn't resist! I have mixed thoughts about the adults leaving camp. Some are tethered to electronics because of their jobs. Even on vacation, the boss and everyone else in the company expects 24/7 performance. If they need to go to town and spend an hour or two in a coffee shop to catch up with work, I think that is okay. Work aside, if the leaders venture into town once or twice or so...I think that's alright. As long as there is a plan for adult supervisor at camp. Gone from camp all the time? Routinely? Just to loaf around town? Not acceptable. At least in my opinion.

I think you have the right sight picture--safety first. Can't speak specifically about council-wide events, but I think the same criteria applies to district and unit events as well: A couple of practices that I've found helpful: - I'd recommend a message to all, today or early tomorrow: "We're monitoring weather forecasts...we'll let you know NLT (day/time) if the event is still on." This lets them know you are watching the wx, and they'll stand by to make adjustments as needed. - Consider the back end of the event as well. Wx might be nice Friday and Saturday, but turn ugly Sunday morning. Are the roads good enough to hold up? Will vehicles get stuck? We recently rescheduled a scouting event for this very reason. - There is a difference between annoying/unpleasant wx, and dangerous wx. Windy and wet is one thing. The conditions you've mentioned are something else entirely. Is it worth life/limb? If not, then reschedule for another day. I guess this post falls in the category of advice, but thanks for listening and I wish you and your scouts the very best.

# I still call it the "number sign" or the "pound sign." Just to annoy my teenage daughter.

Scouter.com is a great place for people to vent and argue. Hopefully folks feel better afterwards. Then they'll go back to their district or troop and deal with the issues. Less emotion, better perspective, armed with good advice and feedback from the experienced scouters here at the forum. Let it all hang out here. Let it get messy and ugly. It's okay. We can handle it.