desertrat77

That looks like alot of fun!

Blw2, I concur. For example, if the troop wants to take a half-day hike together, it should be encouraged. Some camps have the schedule so full that the scouts don't have a moment to do anything other than work on requirements for MBs. And I'm sorry you didn't get to go swimming, it truly pains me to hear that!

Personally, I'm not a fan of the T2FC concept at camp. It restricts everyone--the new scouts, older scouts and adults (depending on the camp's policy). There was a time in scouting when training for those basic skills fell upon the patrol leader, and the patrol worked on the skills and advancement year round at patrol and troop meetings, and campouts. Summer camp was for fun and adventure, first and foremost.

Perdidochas, I realize I was painting with an awfully big brush, and I apologize for my sweeping generalization.

By way of contrast, I offer up these small anecdotes from my Webs experience, circa '74, Panama Canal Zone: - Overnight on an island. Played in the jungle, jumped on big rocks on the beach with no adults present. Meals: C-rations, courtesy of Uncle Sam. Adults started the fire for us, but opening the cans with the P-38 can opener, and heating the food, that was our responsibility. Adult demonstrated once, and left. Picky eaters found out quickly that they could go hungry or eat the c-rations. Truthfully, those rations were pretty darn tasty. - At the end of our Webs year, our den leader had a dance scheduled, and expected each of us Webs to invite a girl to attend. But a scheduling conflict came up and it was cancelled. But still--I was ten and working up the courage to invite Cheryl.... - Each meeting, the denner led the games and stuff like that. Not the adults. I could go on and on, but I've already done that. When I crossed over and attended my first real Boy Scout meeting, it seemed a little scary but completely natural, like I was "home."

Right on the money! In the past, Webelos was the place where, for 1 year, the kids left traditional cub scouting behind, and focused on "you are going to be a boy scout next year, and it's gonna be great!" It was a safe place to begin the "big boy" theory and most kids really benefited from it. Webelos used to be very distinct from the rest of the pack. No more arts/crafts. Add more field trips, more responsibility, begin camping, more freedom. I don't see that in present day Webelos management. Just more cub scouting, lock-step programming, with just as much over-monitoring by parents and leaders.

Merit badges should be afterthoughts at summer camp. Camp is about camaraderie...hiking...swimming...hanging around with friends, old and new, on the front porch of the trading post, drinking a root beer float...enjoying the evening campfire...the scent of pine...singing old songs while waiting for chow...finally getting getting the hang of paddling a canoe...or doing absolutely nothing at all, and not feeling the least bit guilty about it. To me, the the one badge worth pursuing at any camp is the "progressive" patch...1st year, 2nd year, etc. Even those are optional. The boys should have one week of their life without a bunch of homework, requirements, and pushing from adults to do stuff. Summer camp has devolved from a fun experience to one of sitting around on a log, listening to lectures, and then spending the evening doing homework at the picnic table. That's a darn shame.

Very interesting! Yesteryear...our troop in California went on an overnight trip to Alcatraz Island, formerly the site of the famous penitentiary, now a national park. We did service projects by day, and then spent the night in the cells (a tale in and of itself!); your observations about pink reminded me of something the park ranger said that day during a tour. In the early days of the penitentiary, the walls of the cell blocks were painted pink. Officials thought this would have a calming effect on the prisoners (all male). They quickly discovered that the long-term effect was one of "rage" (the female park ranger's very word). The walls were repainted. I too weep when I see that cover. It's been a few years since my daughter was a Girl Scout, but I don't recall a periodical similar to Boy's Life. Or a periodical of any kind. The only message I remember from HQ GSA was "SELL MORE COOKIES!"

As others articulated so well earlier, that first summer camp is indeed the key. Lots of fun, but mix in some unpleasant but necessary lessons. I treasure the memories of my first summer camp. But I also recall how green I was...socially awkward, physically clumsy, etc. I went from being a hot-shot Webelo denner to the greenest scout in the BSA. There were times that week I was miserable. But overall, it was worth it. At the end, I realized the good far outweighed the bad and I had the notion in my young brain that "I can do this." Next year, summer camp (same location as previous year) was so much better. That extra year of "life" made quite a difference. For the situation at hand, looking around for another troop may indeed be the key. Given some time, the scout may arrive at the place one day where the high adventure theme is just the ticket. If not, there are other troops where he'll be welcome and feel more at home.

Eagle, I'm well over half a year late in responding, apologies for the oversight.... No, he wasn't in East Carolina. It was in the Midwest, and tractor factor applied there too!

Wow, those new Cooking requirements are tedious. They've managed to take something as fun and rewarding as cooking outdoors, and turn it into a mind-numbing chore. Once again, the scouts are just sitting around, spending more time "explaining" and "discussing" rather than actually demonstrating new skills.

Collectively the BSA has taken a happy occasion and turned it into drudgery. The red tape. The over-the-top coronation-style Eagle ceremonies. It is not surprising that some scouts just press on with life and skip the fanfare.

Got you covered Q, no problem.

As you ponder the nature of vialness, it is helpful to have a nice cup of hot coffee and a big piece of pie. Balance.

UncleP, thanks for the update. I know it's difficult for the time being, but things are bound to get better. Your insights and support are invaluable.

My experiences mirror @@NJCubScouter's.... Slept on alot of floors. No hotels. The best accommodations were open bay barracks: Kirtland AFB NM on the way to Philmont. And at the Presido of Monterey before an overnight stay at Alcatraz (service project by day, slept in the cells that night, quite an adventure).

We are in a very rural part of Oklahoma. Lots of good folks and public support for scouting. But dollars are far and few between. The scouters I know pay their way for everything, except for the summer camp adult discounts that the council offers. And though they keep quiet about it, many scouters regularly kick in financially to help poor scouts stay in the troop--uniform shirt, meals on the road, camporee fees, etc. Numerous families have trouble making ends meet. I don't think our case is unique to scouting, I'm sure scouters everywhere do the same in one way or another.

Qwazse, I understand and concur. These days, I'm happy to find a fellow scouter that is friendly. This quality means more to me than what may or may not be on his/her uniform, or what they may have done in the past.

I concur. And the council appears to be skimming a little extra cash for their "strategic planning" retreat and new conference room chairs.

Reflecting on my experience as a scout, two things kept me in the troop after Eagle: 1. The scouters treated me like an adult. Attended district training for scouters and monthly roundtable. Signed advancement. Mentored and given duties as if I were an ASM (though still an SPL then JASM). Attended troop committee meetings each month, input solicited. 2. There were a few high-adventure trips each year (one always during Christmas break) reserved for senior scouts. I was involved in plenty of activities outside of scouting. But I still made scouting a priority.

Hedge, I'm glad to hear that, and I agree with you--interest and willingness to try something new go a long way. Unfortunately, your situation is not the norm in the BSA. Troops get into a rut and stay there. And the boys drift away.

Stosh, you make good points. The only thing I'll add: while it's true that many young folks aren't ready to plan/execute the adventure they desire, there aren't many BSA adults that are willing/able to guide them. Car camping is often the extent of many scouters' idea of adventure. And the truly adventurous, outdoors-minded folks in our society that could help tend to shy away from the BSA.

Regarding the older scouts: They drop out because they are bored. Camping in the same old place. Same old activities. And as they look down the trail to Eagle, all they see are homework merit badges and a bunch of paperwork. Yes, they should have input and show some leadership to influence a different outcome. However, it is my observation that many adult scouters do not encourage the old scouts to implement more challenging activities. Sadly, most of the time, the adult scouters are indifferent or not in favor of adventure...their attitude sets the tone for the "same old camp, same old events" syndrome. So a timid program suits the younger scouts, but it gets old quick. The older scouts aren't going to waste their time on paperwork and car camping, unless there is something else to broaden their horizons. But many scouters and scout troops are not equipped in any way to do this.

@@UncleP, your nephew is fortunate to have you in his life. In the coming weeks and months, he will grow more comfortable in scouting, and things will continue to get better. It will also help him cope with life outside of scouting as well. Please keep us posted.

I guess it makes sense. Many vocations are a blend of art and science. But I think STEM/STEAM will remain a small part of the BSA, and not the huge draw National envisions it to be. High in PR value, low in actual numbers signing up. Outdoor adventure will remain the BSA's number 1 activity. For those who like STEM and outdoor adventure, check out the STEM expeditions at Philmont. The best of both.