desertrat77

BadenP hit the nail on the head.... To my way of thinking, the OA has very little impact these days. Sure, scouts want to be in the OA for the prestige, but there is not much substance to most lodges. "Cheerful service" is a powerful concept. Alas, it is often crowded out by competing priorities, like the over-emphasis on regalia (lodge flap worship and the accumulation of innumerable geegaws and gimcracks), and lodge functions (like conclaves) that are focused organizationally inward. I'm painting with a broad brush, but this is the sum of my impressions as I move around every couple years....

Scoutfish, well done! Um, could I have one of each? I'll enlist an attorney, a CPA, and a notary to ensure my papers are in order..... I've been in many scout shops, and there is no consistency in business practices...sometimes, this is true even within the same shop. Some employees are very helpful. Others, either unwilling or unable to assist. The red tape experts are either following the orders of their superior, or take delight in seeing how few badges get sold. I can see a few items (eagle kits, certain other medals) being restricted, but good grief, if a mom stops in to buy another rank patch for her son's uniform, I think some respect, trust and good customer service are in order. This is all a reflection of how National operates...councils could benefit from some old fashioned good business practices, and just not in their scout shops, but most are run like DMVs.

I guess bureaucracy is more important than service to the scouts and scouters...after all, someone has to track all that paperwork. Good thing the local councils are flush with the time and money necessary to stop that person who wants an extra Star patch.... I think this is related to the whole uniform police discussion...turning something pretty straightforward into a nightmare of red tape and regulation quoting.

First earned: Firemanship Favorite: Hiking Started but didn't earn: Archery, Law, Golf, Public Health Toughest: tie between Rifle/Shotgun Shooting, and Small Boat Sailing...honorable mention to First Aid, taught by an Air Force medic who served on our troop committee...fantastic instructor, tough but fair, he made sure we knew our stuff...usually took a scout several weeks to earn that merit badge, but was I ever proud of it (and still am) Wished I would have earned: any/all of the old rural/farming mbs(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Cheffy, I'm always interested in a good story...do share!

deleted by Poster's request (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Thanks, just updated Outlook!

Nolesrule, your use of math in a pizza pie discussion is quite admirable! Though you state the case for thick crust logically, and with iron-clad scientific proof, I still can't wait for my mid tour leave to go out with the family to an old-school East Coast pizza place for thin crust pizza! But they all like thick/medium, so you know how that goes....

I've met several Green Berets and SEALs over the years...they have always impressed me as down to earth, thoughtful, and not inclined to be easily offended. I don't know any right now to run the current topic by, but I'll bet you most Green Berets' either wouldn't mind the "Green Barets" or might even be slighly amused by it. I think it's a reach to ascribe paramilitary qualities to the Green Barets Patrol...seems more like a play on words than anything.

Eagle77, your position and apology are yours to do with what you wish, but I don't think you have a reason to apologize for anything. You were commenting on Merlyn's beliefs and behavior. His comments have been made in a public forum, over several years. They aren't private. You have a much right as Merlyn to voice your thoughts. We all know he isn't shy! I didn't detect any unscoutlike tone or words in your posts. While I don't engage in debate with Merlyn, I watch others that do...it's tough, because if you have a 70 pound dog, he says he's got an 80 pound dog...if you have a 90 lb dog, his is 100 lbs...it never ends.... While I disagree with his beliefs, I respect the fact that he's entitled to them. His debate style isn't productive, but again, that's his style and more power to him. You make a good point: I wonder why he doesn't lobby National? Or has he, and we don't know about it?

With all due consideration to my fellow members of the Pie Patrol (Banished Contingent), thin crust pizza is vastly superior to deep dish. Thin crust is, well, thinner...and does not intrude on the primary reasons for enjoying pizza: melted cheeses, tasty/greasy meats, and spicy tomato sauce...might throw a few mushrooms or onions on there for conscience sake.... Thin crust does not make itself the primary focus of a pizza fest...thick crust? Good grief, gnawing on pound of dough per slice is tiring and on occassion, unseemly. The diner is exhausted two slices in!

Now we're talking! No particular order: - Key lime: my key lime story begins many years ago when I was on temporary duty to Key West Naval Air Station for 3 months. I tried key lime pie at many places along the Keys but the servings were mostly small slices of varying quality, priced quite high. So I visit a local bakery one day, and they had fresh key lime pies that cost about the same as two slices in a restaurant...taste was sublime (no pun intended) - Peach (no long story attached) - Cherry (ditto) - Pumpkin - Strawberry - Pecan (that's six but I beg my fellow scouters' indulgence for making a mockery of the proceedings)

Clarification: Twocubdad: concur re last meaningful post evmori: concur re pie's wonderfulness

Concur....

Twocubdad, As one of the offensive-peanut-gallery-pie-jokers, I must ask: What was the last post, in this thread, that wasn't BS? Of what--600 posts?--there are probably less than 50 of any substance. Most are random accusations, wholesale conjecture, and every now and again, a bit of substance. Once it became clear that a) we don't have all the facts and b) we probably never will, there are certain individuals, myself included, that decided to have our own little crackerbarrel, right here, on this thread. It's the e-version of "Here We Sit Like Birds in the Wilderness" waiting for some information about The Final Decision. Dr77

Mike, I think you did the right thing..... The scout learned the meaning of duty. To top it off, even after both you and the board offered him a compromise, he still didn't want to do his duty? Sorry, but he's not ready for the next rank. On the other hand, I'm puzzled too as to why APL is not an "authorized" leadership position. It can be quite a job, particularly if the PL isn't doing his duty, or on a more positive point, if the PL is sharing responsibility. Maybe the scout is considering his APL duties as part of the deal...even if he knows APL doesn't count, perhaps he's still thinking about the hard work he's given as APL. Your decision is also in the best interest of the other scouts. Sometimes we adults forget that the scouts know when a fellow scout hasn't done his duty. When we advance scouts that aren't ready for the next rank, we take away something from the program, as well as the scouts who actually worked hard and did their duty. The scouts lose a little respect for us adults each time we pass out an award to someone who didn't fully earn it. It's a tough call, but I think you are spot on. I think in the long run, it will benefit all the scouts, including the bugler. I'll bet he reconsiders!

To echo T2Eagle's sentiment, and quote Sergeant Hulka, DI in the movie Stripes: "Lighten up, Francis!" To assume that someone who cooks with alcohol is lush, or a person of low moral character, is indeed painting with a broad brush. In the case at hand, knowning your audience--your troop--is the first step. Some, like a church sponsored troop, may espouse a zero tolerance for alcohol...in that case, I'd honor their stance fully and avoid the wine. In all other instances, I'd ask the parents first how they felt. And then take the appropriate steps to avoid any negative appearance factor. In my own experience, when I was an SPL a million years ago, my SM brought a bottle of dandelion wine one camp out, and he told us he would marinate the shish kebab meat in it, for our big Saturday night feed. He drained the bottle in the pot, put the meat in, and let it soak for the afternoon. Those kebabs were delicious! Amazing what that wine did for the normally tough chunks of stew meat.

I'll do my part! A big chunk of pecan pie would be special right about now.

a rare triple post(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

double post(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Lots of conditioning hikes, increasing pack weight and distance incrementally.... True, it's tough to replicate the altitude and mountains of Philmont in Iowa...but any kind of hill or stairs (high school football stadium?) with a pack will be helpful. Gym/weights are good, but as stated by previous posters, nothing beats putting that pack on and walking. Shoes: to borrow a phrase from an old handbook/fieldbook "Broken in but not broken down." What to pack: less is best. All those cool doodads add up to lbs that really take a toll after a long day...the Philmont prep guidance is best. Sleeping bag: depending on what time of year your son is going, it can get chilly at altitude, especially if it gets rainy. My trek was in August and there were a few days/nights I was cold due to the weather and how high we were up. Best wishes...completing a Philmont trek is one of those lifetime events that truly lives up to the great expectations.....

I'm all for full uniforming, but I don't buy the sports team uniform comparison...most sports uniforms are functional and can actually withstand the stress of what they are they are designed for...the BSA lost claim to that standard long ago when they went low quality/indoor program focus/high cost.... The day the BSA fields a rugged uniform that is designed for camporees, and is something a scout would be proud to wear in public, that's when we'll achieve voluntary full uniforming...till then, parents and scouters will keep sending their kids to camporees in blue jeans and other clothes that can take the abuse of dirt, soot, a spilt mess kit, and running thru the woods.... Back indoors, full uniforming is attainable and desirable. Why? That's what our uniform is designed for...sitting in meetings, listening to powerpoint briefings, enjoying potluck dinners.... That said, the nugget giver has the right to hand out nuggets to whomever he wishes...if folks get upset, so be it...as long as the scouts can compete in the derby, that's the main thing.

OA in many places is just as OGE described.... The OA can be an incredible avenue for boosting scouting overall, and troop retention specifically. However, in my experience, many lodges are mutual admiration societies, where people who are elected to the Brotherhood of Honor Campers camp indoors during OA events and their primary focus is collecting patches. It's all about service...if the lodge isn't serving somebody or something--camporee, natural disaster, their troop--then it's just a club and really not worth the effort. But when a lodge does apply the principles of the founding fathers of OA, the results are sublime...and the scouts are ready for the challenge, but as always, it's the advisors and associated old timers that enjoy the clubhouse theory that aren't too eager to get out and associate with the non-Arrowmen (to borrow a dated phrase!).....(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

As a scout I did my first fifty miler in the GC...rim-rim-rim...and Scott's advice is spot on. Gotta be in good shape...35 years ago, and I still remember those trails! True, it gets hot in there...after the second day, we started hiking at night to avoid the heat of the day. We'd get to our next campsite by dawn, have breakfast, and rest till evening. Some trail sections are a little tricky to walk along in the dark, but each time we tackled a rim it was during the day (long drop off some of those trails). We took tents but our SM talked a Ranger at Phantom Ranch into leaving them there till we came back thru...just dead weight and we didn't need them. My gear wasn't the greatest, nor my backpacking skill at that particular time, but I'm proud of hiking the Canyon...I'll never forget what it was like topping out the south rim and realizing it was over, and I had survived...le Voyageur is right, that patch is something special, especially that "RIM to RIM to RIM" patch right below it...I value it right behind my Philmont Arrowhead.... While my info is admittedly dated, definitely recommend light packs if going during the summer...best wishes!

Perhaps one page more?(This message has been edited by desertrat77)