CNYScouter

I found a description of this course on the Scouting magazine Web site: http://scoutingmagazine.org/issues/9809/d-news.html Scouting--September 1998 News Briefs: New training emphasizes safety at unit level A new council health and safety course, for unit leaders and district and council staff, focuses on safety at the unit level. Emphasizing the fact that most serious injuries and fatal accidents in Scouting happen at that level, the 90-minute course is designed to: * help unit leadership understand and accept responsibility for the well-being and safety of Scouts in their care during unit activities. * identify areas of risk in Scouting activities, especially at the unit level, and define key safety procedures for each activity. * acquaint unit leaders with BSA resource materials for planning safe activities. * introduce the "Sandwich Principle" in BSA safety--that Scouting safety is produced when "sandwiched" between a "cover" of leaders who provide qualified supervision and a "foundation" of discipline. The course features a new 10-minute video, "Scouting Safety...Begins With Leadership" (No. AV-09V025). The tape presents unit situations involving automobile travel, boating, and hiking, pointing out how strict adherence to BSA safety guidelines and practices can prevent tragedies in each case. The training also includes a review of the "Guide to Safe Scouting" (BSA Supply No. 34416A), the contents of which include key BSA safety policies (each of which is also available as a separate document): "Sweet 16 of BSA Safety"(Bin No. 19-130), "Safe Swim Defense" (Supply No. 34370A), "Safety Afloat" (No. 34368A), "BSA Bike Safety" (Bin No. 19-101), and "Climb On Safely" (Supply No. 3206). Other course content includes a review of standards found in "Tours and Expeditions" (No. 33737B) and the careful driving and vehicle maintenance practices needed to avoid entering motoring's "Risk Zone" (see Scouting magazine, May-June 1998, pages 10-11). Participants completing the course receive/sign a Health and Safety Commitment Card. All leaders will be urged to repeat the training once a year.

The Heath and Safety training that was given consisted of a Video, a discussion of the Sandwich principle and some handouts. We were also split into 4 groups and were given scenarios to discuss. Other topics covered were the Risk Zone which talked about traveling with Scouts. It ended with going the other training that was available, such as Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Climb on Safety The handouts had Boy Scouts of America printed on them and the training card issued was not the generic training card but had BSA Health and Safety training with places for a Name and the trainers signature. The back had the sandwich principle and the card number (190-10). I dont think this is just for our council as the SM said that it was required to rent a cabin in another council. Doing a Google search also shows Heath and Safety training as available (and required) on some council Web sites. ScoutNut The required training had nothing to do with obtaining a tour permit but was required before a council would allow a unit to use its facilities. Our council does not have these requirements but as of September all new leaders (or any leader that is new to their position) must have NLE, YPT (within the last 2 years) and position specific to register next year. I can't help wondering how these Councils who have extra requirements manage Patrol Camps? I think this really shows how few Troops actually have Patrols do Camping or activities on their own.

I was thinking along the same lines myself over the weekend. Last week I had the opportunity to attend Roundtable in the District the Ship is in. Last month the District where my sons troop is held NLE training and I stopped in after Ship meeting as a couple of the Ships new leaders were taking this. I grew up in the Ships District and recognized many of the Old-timers as they were the young guys back when my Father was a UC and ADC (and I was a Scout). One difference I noticed right away was that the District level people in the Ships District were just that. Once their sons had aged-out or dropped from Scouting they moved from Unit positions to District positions. Not so in the other District. Almost all of the District level people were still very involved at the Unit level as SMs or CCs. It seems to me that these are the types that cant let go or unwilling to give up control as they want to run everything. Perhaps this is one of the reasons that the Ships District Roundtable had twice as many people at it even though this District has over twice as many units (110 to 50).

Last night at Roundtable they had Health and Safety Training. During the session a SM said that they had rented cabins at another nearby councils camp for a weekend trip. Before they council would give final approval for the cabin rental the Troop was required to submit a copy of either the training record or training cards for 2 adult leaders showing they had taken the had Health and Safety Training in the previous 2 years. He said that they were also required to show in a similar mannor that any adult that would be staying overnight had taken YPT in the last 2 years. I hadnt heard about this before nor have any of the troops I have been with that has gone to another councils camp been asked for these before. Has anyone else run into this?

My son has asked me about getting our councils crews together for an event. He has also asked about setting up a Council Venturing Youth Cabinet or Venturing Office's Association. Is there a difference in these or is this just different names for the same thing? A few years ago our council tried to hold Venturing Roundtables. They werent very successful and stopped after a few months. I did attend a couple of these and they were oriented towards Advisors and not Crew officers. Back then there were very few Crews around and the District the Ship is in now has 12. Where can I find information about setting these up? I am pretty sure that I can get help from Council with this as our now Council Commissioner was the person who ran the Venturing Roundtables. Also does anyone have suggestions on events that do well in drawing Venturing Crews? In the past there just seems to be very little interest from the Crews in attending Venturing only events and perhaps we were just not offering the right event.

Eamonn- If you are going to the Winter training weekend in Jan. I'll hae the Ship make you a whole batch!

I talked with our CO about the lack of funds. The IH keeps bringing up the fact that he got a boat donated to the ship to sell (its too big for the clubs marina for us to use). Thats great but until it is sold that doesnt help. A local shopping mall is having a big invitation only sale for Christmas. You have to purchase an invitation to this sale. These cost $10 and sell very well. Any youth group can sell these for a fund raiser. The Mall supplies the invitations and the group keeps the whole $10. They have given us a date to sell these in the mall and we can sell popcorn along with them. I cant seem to get any of the other parents or ship members to take any interest in doing this. Some of the parents were complaining that the Ships planned activities were too expensive. We set up popcorn sales to be put into individual scout accounts. One Young lady sold over $550 in the ship and the same amount into her account in another crew she is in. Another member did close to $200 and my son will be near $300 when he gets done. The Ship members whose parents did the most complaining havent sold a thing.

Emb021 DE is referring to the youth members being registered in more than one unit and not the units themselves being dual registered. As far National may be concerned this doesnt affect numbers but the district doesnt promote it has 20 Venturers but will say that we have 2 crews with 20 members each, but doesnt mention that it will be the same 20 kids in both crews. Looks good on the DEs resume. Most Ship members find it hard to make our 2 meetings a month so I cant see how they (and most other teens) are going to find time to attend even more meetings. I had a very difficult time finding another place to meet. The schools here are open to Scout units meeting and dont a fee. But they are so overbooked with other organizations I couldnt find one that would add another group. I had a couple or churches respond that they would love to have us meet there, for a nice donation to the church. The service organizations didnt own their own places but meet at local restaurants The American Legion in town told me that their meeting room is set up for Bingo and no longer rents to outside groups. The VFW was booked solid. When we lost the Reserve Center our CO came up with some places to consider. They did have a few businesses offer their conference or back rooms as a place to meet. They were small and we wouldnt be able to do much more than sit around a table and talk. I hadn't given any of these an answer as I didn't see being able to hold a very fun meeting there. We ended up the next town over, in its planned communities meeting building. One of the Ship members live there and have free use of the building. Its a very nice place but farther than I would have liked. The building is brand new with a large open space and we have a full kitchen available. Outside the distance it is exactly what I was looking for.

One of the drawbacks to the Ships current CO is the club house is closed from Nov. to April and we had to find another place to meet for these months. Our DE said not to worry that he had arranged for the Ship to meet at the local Naval Reserve Center and all I needed to do was contact them to set up the times we wanted. After 4 months I finally got contact information for the Commanding Officer. It took me a month to get in contact with him as he had gone on maneuvers. Now he cant give us permission to meet there (he has to go through Washington) and we need to find another place. I contacted the DE about this. Now after a couple of weeks he came back and suggested to dual register the Ship members with another crew and meet with them for the winter. If fact he is suggesting that all the crews dual register and meet with each other. I just asked him for contact info for the other crews in the district. The Ship members have expressed interest in renting a cabin over the winter for an overnight. Having a small group makes this pretty expensive and thought that we might be able to get together and split the costs and make it affordable. Instead of getting me contacts he wants the Ship to also dual register with the new High Adventure crew that the local Gander Mountain store is starting and attend outings with them. According to the DE some of the other Crew Advisors think that dual registering between crews is a good idea. I think that Crews getting together and doing things is a good thing but about the only thing I see dual registering does is to artificially boost Venturing membership. I am really trying to build a team and teach leadership and cant see any advantage to encouraging the ship member to join another unit for the winter. (And the ship has found another place to meet for the winter)

It seems that every time the discussion turns to fundraising someone says lets do a can and bottle drive. With 2 sons I have been involved with a Pack, 2 troops, a Crew and now the Ship. Every one of these has considered doing a can/bottle drive and after some investigation all but one has decided not to do it. The 2nd Troop we were with has been doing it for a very long time (15+ years). On a good day they only make about $700 profit even with all the drivers gas and snacks, and other supplies donated. I could see if the Scouts were running this it would be a good learning experience but with adults doing most of the work (remember this is a WEB 3 Troop) this takes an incredible amount of effort for little return, in my opinion. One of the biggest obstacles to doing a can/bottle drive around here is that there are so many established groups doing these as fund raiser it is very hard for a new group to do one and make a profit. The last time the troop looked into this we were told by someone at a can/bottle return place that most groups need a few years of doing these just to see any profit and most groups lose money the first year trying one these. The Ship is running low on funds and wants to do one of these for fundraising. I saw where Eamonns ship was going to do a Halloween dance that turned into a Valentine Day dance which lost money. Although we have a small fund, the majority of losses we would incur would have to come from somewhere and most likely that would be my pocket. I really want the Ship to be youth-run and dont really want to stop then from trying. And as a learning experience putting together one of these is great but I dont think we can afford to lose money on something like this right now. After going down this road so many times before and it not panning out I am not sure where to go with this. As Yogi Berra said Its dj vu all over again

I also found Sunday an interesting day. We had Quarterdeck training all day. It went better than I expected. 5 Sea Scouts showed up All the elected officers showed but the Boatswain (thats another thread). Winds were very high 35mph. We saw gusts up to 55mph. I know this because every time a big gust started, someone had to run over and check the weather station to see how fast it was blowing. During breaks one the Sea Scout brought his skateboard and was using a small tarp as a sail. We even had to stop and take a break to tie down one a sailboat that had been flipped off of its trailer. I too thought that the Ship would be able to recruit the Scouts who were bored with Boy Scouting. I am finding that these bored Scouts have been so turned off by the program they have no interest in even looking at the ships program. The older boys that are still in Scouts like the programs they are in and see no need to go into another program. I talked with a Scout Leader last night that was interested in the Ship. His troop had a Crew associated with it but it folded last year when all of the kids went away to college. They now have a new group of older Scouts that are looking for something else. All but one of the young ladies who joined the Ship has or had a brother in a Scout Troop and they see the Ship as a way to do the things the boys are doing. We average about 15 in age. I have been looking at different groups to recruit. I talked with a Girl Scout troop leader who said her girls were looking for something more exciting to do. She said that her and the other Moms that ran the troop just didnt have the skills to do the kinds of things that their girls wanted to do and the Ship might interest them. The Ships DE has offered to do another mailing from the Learning for Life survey that is given in High School. These generally draw about 10% interest. Most of the initial Sea Scouts that signed up came from this mailing. As with any good Scout Unit you need a mix of younger and older youths. I think that recruiting them at 14, just as a troop recruits at 11, is the way to grow a unit. I do have to agree that the pick and choose they older kids seems to do may not be the best example.

I also got excited when Bobo Brazil would come into the ring and put Freddie Blassie in his place with a crack of his hard head. Wasn't that called the CoCo Butt?

gwd-scouter - I was beginning to think that there wasn't anyone else that though like this anymore. In both the troops we were in this kid would have made Eagle the first time and been long gone. I have met way too many Adult Leaders and parents who feel that because a Scout is busy with (sports, bands, school playtake your pick) that its a free ride for a Scouts POR and hand it to him for doing nothing. A quick Quarterdeck training update: 5 Sea Scouts showed every other officer except our Boatswain (and our newest Sea Scout). A few comments were made from them about the Boatswain not coming. It was a good lead-in for a discussion about the reasonability of being a Ship leader. I think it went pretty well as a heard a comment from one of our young ladies: I thought it would be boring when you told us it would last 8 hours, but it was really fun and I think I might have learned something too.

I have often wondered what some of you out there look like. packsaddle said in the "Am I getting old or does TV seem to be getting worse?" thread: But my students think I look like Indiana Jones It got me wondering who is your Celebrity look-a-like? In my younger days I had pretty long hair and was told that I looked like Meafloaf!

I do tend to set high expectations and perhaps more patience is due on my part. When this young man joined he immediately expressed interest in becoming a leader in the ship. He repeated this to me many times over the summer before having elections. Now after being elected Boatswain he doesnt seem to want to put any type of effort in. I sat down with him less than a month ago and we discussed how important Quarterdeck training was for him to attend and that I wanted to set a date that he could make. He e-mailed be a few days later with tomorrows date. I just received an e-mail from him notifying me that he can not attend Training tomorrow. He has to work at his schools open house tomorrow at the same time. I guess that I should be glad that he did tell me but waiting less than 24 hours before hand to let me know I find disrespectful on his part. I just find it hard to believe he didnt know had this scheduled before this. I really wished he had come to me when he realized the conflict and we could have worked on a new date. The non-effort on his part after telling me how he really wanted to learn leadership has become really frustrating. I am expecting at least 3 ship members at our Quarterdeck training tomorrow and I do have some fun things planned.

when the Boatswain didn't follow through with his commitment, what happened at the meeting? It has been 4 meetings since elections. We are a new unit less than 6 months old. My son is the only one that has been in Scouts, but I did find out that all but one of the girls has or had a brother in Scouts. So not much in the way of youth-led experience. At the meeting at where the officers were elected, the election were held right after opening and Boatswain just followed the agenda I prepared. Met after meeting and worked with him and elected officers to prepare the agenda for the next meeting. Let him know that he needed to send a meeting reminder out a few days before next meeting. I planned and ran the activity. Let me know that he did read his e-mails and checked them a couple of times a day so that was they way to contact him. E-mailed him during and asked him how was it going, gave him info on a new event that I found out about, letting him know I was available if he needed help. No response. I ended up sending out meeting reminder the night before when he didnt. Showed up next meet with no agenda (basically just showed up). Said he made an agenda but forgot it. Gave him my rough agenda to work from. Again after meeting sat down and prepared agenda. Talked about what it means being the Boatswain and his responsibilites. I came up with the activity which was to work with my son to prepare a presentation on Sea Scout/Venturing (something that the other Ship members were asking for). E-mailed twice him during the two weeks in-between. Same response. Again no meeting reminder. I again sent out meeting reminder at the last minute. Again showed up with no agenda. Again said he forgot it. Winged the meeting using a copy of the sample outline agenda and notes from last meeting he got from Yeoman. Sat down to work on agenda. After 5 min. announced he had to leave. Before leaving I did left him know that making out the agenda and notifying the ship members about the next meeting was part of being Boatswain. Two part activity I did a session on team-based planning/Ship member was to do Knots. E-mailed rough agenda for him to follow as he didnt bother to write anything down. Got e-mail that he couldnt come to next meeting (thats when I started this thread). Responded to him that the agenda was still his responsibility even if he couldnt come and he needed to let the 2nd in command know that he couldnt come and to work with them on the agenda. I contacted 2nd in command. Boatswain had e-mailed that he couldnt come but nothing else. I sent same outline to 2nd in command. Not everything is dark and gloomy there has been some bright spots. At last nights meeting 2nd in command started to stumble through agenda. Yeoman ended up taking over and did a good job. I had suggested that she run for Boatswain but she wasnt interested. He brother, an Eagle Scout, is at the Naval Academy. I think she has her sights on attending there also. She is the ships best sailor. She went over the required knots for Apprentice. She came prepared and did a really good job. She went as far as learning how to tie a monkeys-fist (I dont that one). I still find it hard to believe that teenagers really get into learning how to tie knots. When we were with the Troop the Scouts didnt seem interested in learning them During her presentation I looked at the Adults in the back of the room. Our 2 Mates, 2 Moms and the Yeomans Dad were in the back watching and learning how to tie the knots also. I just dont know if it is time to replace the Boatswain yet. He is new at this and is a very intelligent kid. He is a senior at a very competitive private high school, very difficult to get into. Most of the kids that I know that go to this school are the over achiever types and he really shouldnt have any difficulty doing this. I am not sure what is going on but he surely isn't putting any effort in even though since we started he has expressed interest in being a leader in the Ship. And sorry Eamonn the Ship ate all the Brownies.

I have been trying to find what interests the members but so far it seems to be nothing. When I receive info about an upcoming event I bring it in for the Ship to discuss. A month ago I received information for an orienteering event. I though it would be a great way to introduce navigation to the Ship. Both my son and daughter have gone to this in the past and had a great time. When I introduced it to them it was actually something that they all agreed it looked like a fun event to attend and wanted to do. Every thing seemed fine until the time came to pay the registration fee and then no one signed up to attend except my son. I have been looking for a Ship to visit but so far all the other Ships close by have been nothing but paper ships. I have been selling the Winter Training Weekend not only as a place to work on Advancement but as a place to see how other Ships are run to give us ideas on what to do. It really thought this is a very reasonable costing trip and on a weekend when not much else would be happening. Again the ship members thought this was a great idea until the time to send in the fee then only my son signed up. The only reason we have another Sea Scout going is her mother called me up at the last minute and said to sign her up. I am not really sure what to do about this. This seems to be a recurring theme. Even the one event we did do only 2 kids showed up. On the way home usually I ask my son his thoughts on the meeting. He thinks the activities are usually fun. His negative comments usually stem around the lack of participation from other ship members. I am working hard to recruit more members but I just found out there has been a Snafu in our Winter meeting place and have been spending my time trying to secure a place to meet.

This weekend the Ship is having a Quarterdeck Training Seminar. There is still one area where I am not 100% sure how I am going to accomplish it. One of my goals to come from this is to have a shared vision of what the Ship is going to be. One of the sections deals with creating a Vision or Mission Statement. In another session I want to have the Ship members to set some goals for the Ship. I have a pretty clear vision on what I would like the ship to be. I am not sure how my vision lines up with what the youth members see the Ship to be. In trying to keep with youth-run I havent been pushing my vision for the Ship. In Cubs and Scouts I think it is much easier to share a vision than in Venturing/Sea Scouts because of the wide-open nature of the Venturing Program. Some of my WB ticket goals do work towards this vision (Training, Advancement and planning towards attending a Regional/National Sea Scout Event) but they are really more towards teaching basic skills and laying a solid foundation for a ship. So any suggestions on how to: 1) Bring out what the youth members vision of the Ship is, in terms they will understand. 2) To create one common vision we can all work towards.

As usual on these forums I see some great advice and really good things to think about. At tonights meeting one of the youth members is going to be doing knots. I am going to do a session on teamed-based planning. (Eamonn- Im going to use your suggestion of making something like Apple Pie, but trying Brownies instead). Its something I think the Ship really needs and I feel it can be covered in a reasonable time-frame. The person who needs this most, the Boatswain, cant be there. I know that it is my job to train the Ship members but is tough to train them when they arent there. One of the other problems I am seeing is that the youth have no real idea what their schedules are like. If Mom or Dad isnt there to tell them they have something going on they have no clue whats going on Last month the Ship finally got together and decided on an activity to go on. As meetings are held on Thursday nights they decided to go to a maze made from a 5 acre corn field the following Sunday afternoon. All 6 Sea Scouts in attendance said that they were free and could go. Only two showed. At the next ship meeting the Boatswain said that he didnt come as this was the day his parents had scheduled two college visits. He had no idea 9 days before that this was the day he was doing this (he even said so). I seem to be repeating the mantra you will only get out of the Program what you out in. When discussing the Quarterdeck training I keep getting asked Do I have to come? I have being answering to this No, you dont have to come to anything the Ship does; you will only get out of the Program what you out in. You dont have to come to the training. However if you want the Ship to continue to grow and be successful its probably a good idea you show up. I am not sure how well this is going to work but well see how many show up this weekend for the training.

Although this is for a Sea Scout/Venturing program this same situation could be with a Troops SPL so I placed it under Open Discussion - Program heading The Ship has made progress since its start but I have hit another bump. I am having trouble getting my Boatswain to understand what his responsibilities are and carrying these out. Since day one he has expressed his desire to become a leader in the Ship. Before holding Ship elections I discussed what was required for each officer position. I really spend a good deal of time on what the responsibilities and commitment it required to be the Ships Boatswain. Every ship member got a copy of these handed to them and another copy e-mailed to them. In the beginning I ran everything. But did let them know that as the Ship progressed the members would be expected to do more and more for each meeting. Next I prepared the agenda but had the Ships officers follow it. At one of the meetings as the Ship went through each part of the meeting I explained each part and at the end I handed out a generic meeting plan to use. Meetings went pretty well like this then we hit the snag. I sat down with the Boatswain and let him know he was responsible for the next meetings agenda. After a meeting I worked with him to create the agenda for the next meeting and when he left all he needed to do was to copy it over into a useable format. He didnt even have to worry about the activity as I was working with my son to do a presentation on Venturing/Sea Scout Advancement. At that time I also let him know that he needed to send out a meeting notice a couple of days before and if he couldnt make the meeting he needed to get in contact with the 2nd in-command to let her know the agenda and what needs to be done. I told him if he needed any help with this to call or e-mail and I would gladly work with him. He never sent the meeting notice and showed up at the next meeting with nothing ready or even a written agenda. I did contact him before hand reminding him that he needed to do these things and to contact me if he needed any help. This has gone on for a couple of meeting like this. I have worked out an agenda for the next meeting with him and he shows up with nothing. Even with reminders to send out a meeting notice and asking him how it was going and to contact me f he needed assistance I getting nothing. I just got an e-mail from him saying he cant make our next meeting. I did let him know, that as Boatswain, the meeting was still his responsibility even if he couldnt come. He needed to contact the second in command and work with her on the agenda and to get a meeting notice out. Even after this he still seems to be under the impression that if he cant make a meeting that he doesnt have to do anything (and its not like he did anything when he did show up). I have yet to get a meeting notice and he still hasnt contacted the 2nd in-command to discuss the meeting and to make sure everyone is ready with what they need to do (one of the ship members is running the activity). He has yet to go through Quarterdeck training. I had to cancel this once already as every ship member except my son canceled at the last minute. It is scheduled again for this weekend, but I am having doubts if he will show up even though I worked with him to select the date. I am really not sure what to try next or if I have taken the wrong approach with this. I do plan to sit down with him and discuss this again (when and if he ever shows up).

I have to agree that taking something like PowderHorn may be better close by, if you can get it. I just took WB in another council traveling about 70 miles. They are in a cluster of 3 council that take turns holding WB. For Powder Horn this cluster works with other clusters that take turns holding Power Horn. This cluster just held Powder Horn so it will be 4 years before it will be held anywhere close by. My council or any of the other council's close by do not hold Powder Horn so if I want to take it I will have to travel 100's of miles. I would also like to take Sea Badge next year. i am fully expecting to have to travel pretty far to take this no matter where it is being held.

I haven't seen it yet

I am putting togther Quarterdeck training. I have a copy of a syllabus for this but it is missing the appendix. In this there is a section called "Venturing to the Moon" I have searched the internet and through my Venturing manuals but can't find a copy. Does any one have a copy of the handouts for this?

CubScoutJo got my point exactly. Sea Scouting is very weak here with many people that have never heard of it. It has been many, many years since we have had a successful Ship in this area. The few ships that the council did have were through the local dive shops and not very active. The last one my council had was at an antique boat museum a couple of hours north of here. It only lasted one year as it was in a low population area and couldnt interest enough kids. I fully agree that having a few ships in the area can be a good thing but I dont see enough interest yet here to have 3 ships so close together. Every council around us has a Ship registered but every one I have contacted so far is a "Paper Unit". While at WB the staff made the point of telling everyone they had a Sea Scout Ship in their council. When I contacted the Skipper he told me that even though they had been around for months they hadnt had a meeting/activity and he couldnt even get his own son to attend. The Ship members and I have been actively recruiting from these 3 districts and since June the Ship has only attracted 10 kids. These other units together don't have that many so I still don't see enough interest to start new units. We are working on it and are growing slowly. What often happens is kids join one of the "struggling units" and if that unit doesn't have the program, they quit. I have been running into this with my recruiting efforts. The kids that dropped from Scouts had such a lousy time in their unit they are unwilling to give it another try even though this is a different program. I just sent in the application for the winter training weekend. I have 3 adults taking 2 Scouts. My son and a young lady signed up to go. I am going and the other 2 adults are members of our CO who are empty-nesters. Both are very nice older ladies and have decided to help out with the Ship. One is a Golf widow and the other is a child physiatrist who wants to work with normal teens for a change. They really need the Venturing training and though this looked like a fun way to get it. The professionals at council just made my job a lot harder as a volunteer by starting units where there is little interest just to get that credit of starting a new unit. Instead of working to have one strong unit to spark the program and interest and creating another unit when that interest is strong the council has just gone ahead and started these other Ships and spread our resources thin making it tougher for any one of us to continue and grow.

I was talking with the Ships DE last weekend and found out that 2 other Sea Scout Ships have been started in my council. Even though we are only about a 15 min. drive from each other we are in different districts. There was one thing that he said that kind of bothers me. He told me not to worry about the other Ships taking kids away from our Ship as from what he has heard we were the only one that had any type of program in place. It seems that one of the Ships has been started by the retired Rear Admiral that is on the Council Executive Committee. At one time he was going to use his background and connections to help any ship in the council but is now only going to be doing it for the ship he started. One of the other adult leaders of this Ship has a sailboat and has taken the Sea Scouts for a couple of rides and that has been the extent of their activities. The other one has been started in a church in the middle of the city and has no access to any type of boats. The Ship I am Skipper of just registered its 10th member which is more than the other 2 Ships put together. The driving force behind starting 2 new units instead of encouraging them to join one ship was that the DEs of the other Districts wanted that notch for starting a new unit. I find it funny that all the kids have in my unit are from both of these other districts and none are from the district we are chartered in. I have nothing against starting new units but it seems that we now have 3 struggling Sea Scout Ships (and yes we are still struggling) instead of working together, pooling our resources and having one thriving unit. I have seen this done with Troops in our council where in an area with one Cub Pack feeding 3 troops and starting a 4th Troop that drew off of this same Pack just to get that added unit number with no regard that it will weaken all of the other Troops. I dont think we will have much success in drawing more boys into the program until our Council level professionals concentrate on having quality units that draw and keep kids into Scouting instead of just starting as many mediocre units as possible. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)