CNYScouter

To get back on the topic of why is scouting shrinking? I am in a council that has seen a membership decrease from 8100 in 2000 to 6100 in 2006 with the number of units decreasing from 427 to 310 in the same period. I asked one of the long-time district level Scouters what he thought the reasons were for this decline. The reason that he gave me for this decrease are: Decreasing population in our councils service area. Insufficient emphasis on membership recruitment especially in the Cub Scout programs. Many other youth activities that compete with the BSA. Staff and budget cuts due to decreased revenues. Negative media coverage. As far as the Scouting program being out of date I or irrelevant to todays youth, I dont agree. Take a look at the last Scouter Magazine. The troop that had its 400th consecutive month of camping is in my council. They are in a community of 350 yet have over 40 scouts in the troop. They draw kids form all the surrounding communities. I know of another troop in another small community a little farther north from them. They have 80+ scouts. Neither of these Troops has any problem recruiting boys or leaders into their program even facing the challenges outlined above. They are doing nothing magical or special nor are they doing anything that most other units cant do. All they are doing is running a good Scout program. This shows me that the Scouting program is still relevant and the youth of today will join if you make your program fun and challenging.

Thanks for all the suggestions This discussion came during SM Specific/Outdoor skills training not WB. It was also suggested that an option was to go to larger size patrols. It seems that (at least around here) the whole concept of the Patrol Method has been lost. The same staffer that made the comment and I were discussing the SM Specific training and how the session on the "Patrol Method" had little on what the patrol method is. SSScout and EagleDad (and some others)- your sugeestions of "uderstanding the method" really make sense. Where in the SM Specific should this be discussed? I said before it is not in the "Patrol Method" session. I have been doing the Troop Organization session which patrols but not this specifically. After taking SM Specific and staffing it 3 times I really see that a more detailed discussion is needed (at here) on what the "Patrol Method" means. Also th staffer that made this comment came up to me later that day and did say that he agreed with what I said about keeping the patrols together.

I agree with what all has been said so far but I seem to be in the vast minority when it comes to this view of the Patrol Method. This whole discussion started when my fellow staffer suggested that a Troop combine patrols on a camping trip to make up larger groups in which I disagreed. It was asked what should be done if only one or two scouts from a patrol go on a trip. I suggested that if this was happening you should take a look why and consider doing something different. Almost all the other leaders jumped to the conclusion that the Scouts are busy with other activities and no one will admit that perhaps their camping trips are not fun. It seems that many Adult Scout Leaders think that it is more important to get a kid on an outing than to use the Patrol Method. Many feel that they will lose Scouts if they require one or two of them to do the work of a whole patrol. I didnt think that this little discussion had any impact but I saw on some of the course evaluations that they thought the presentation of the different views of the Patrol Methods was one of the things that they got the most out of the training.

I have seen discussion along these lines before but dont know if this was talked about. During one of the sessions at SM/Outdoors skills training this weekend we got into a discussion about using the patrol method at camping trips and the size of patrols. We had a large patrol of 10 adults from 9 different units. There were only 3 of these Troops that did cooking/activities by patrols at camping trips. 2 were from small Troops and only had enough for 1 patrol, the 3rd was a large troop (80+) scouts. I made the statement that a Patrol should stay together and work together as a patrol on camping trips and 2 scouts could function as a Patrol. One of the responses from a patrol member was if we have only 2 Scouts function as a Patrol on a camping trips, they wouldnt come as they would be stuck doing all the work (meaning cooking/cleaning). I wasnt exactly sure how to answer so I just let it go. Has anyone experienced Scouts not coming because of this or was this just a WEBELOS III leader rationalizing why they did things?

have to agree with Eamonn's #1 and #2. As far as #3. It's definitely not our newsletter. It only comes out 4 times a year and doesn't offer much in the way of new information. Camps? I think these are important to offer a good scout program. We have a few good county and state parks that can be used but they often need to be booked 2 years in advance to use the facilities. I have sent my kids to both Scout run and private camps. The program offered by the Scout camps is far superior and costs much less than the private camps. I would like to think that this should be #3 but I am not sure if it is right now. Program help? It seems anytime I have a problem or issue to work through I end up talking with a DE. If I need training dates I have to go to a DE. If I have leadership issues I have ended up working with a DE. I need help with recruitment, I work with a DE. When I started a the Ship as a new unit, I had no contact with the volunteer side and worked with a DE. I know that these should be handled by the volunteers but it always seems to get action I need to go to a DE. So I think that this is #3.

I kinda sorta thought that maybe I would get an answer like that.

Has anyone esle visited the scouting web site "The Dump"? http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/nonfict.html Although this is from the Canadaian Scouts there is a great deal of information and ideas that can be used. On the site is says that it is: The repository of Scouting reference material It also says Warning: The material contained in this website may improve your Scouting program! - Use with caution.

I am working on a presentation for the Ship on the awards that can be earned. I see that the for the Quest Award the Sports Bronze earned, The Outdoor Bronze is earned for the Ranger Award, the Religious Life Bronze is earned towards the Trust Award and the Sea Scout Bronze is earned as part of Quartermaster Award. Is there a higher award in the works for the Arts and Hobbies Bronze?

There has been some heated discussion in my council over the selling of some of our councils property, one of our summer camps in particular. Over the last 5 years or so we have seen a drop from 8100 to 5900 registered Scouts in the council. In this time frame the council has also amassed a debt of over $400,000. Last week there was an informational meeting about the selling of the property and the measures that the council was going to take. I couldnt make the meeting but I just saw on our local forum a persons view of the meeting that went. He said there were about 20 people there plus council reps. However there was one thing in his posting that really bothered me: Finally someone suggested we should get out of the camping business altogether. This seemed to meet with some approval. I know my council is facing tough times but I am really beginning to wonder whats going on here and when I read something like this. P.S. I also see in another posting that our executive board has decided not to sell the camp.

Eamonn- I have to say that I am seeing the exact same thing here. Many of the people I now see joining seem to only be worried about their son and the main focus seems to be on advancement with the goal of reaching Eagle rank ASAP and then moving on. Even more sad it that while these adults do bring what skills and talents they have to Scouting, they never really take the time to really understand how things are supposed to work. I have to add that when someone comes along and wants to deliver a good Scout program, these people dont want it. I was in a unit that didnt do fundraising, service projects or attend district events because it took time away from doing advancement. I one thing I cant understand about these units is that they pick and choose what parts of the program to follow, have adults do everything then sit back scratching their heads wondering why they cant keep older scouts or why the Scouts arent learning any leadership skills. One piece of advice I see that keeps popping is that we should focus on our unit to delivery the best Scouting program that we can. Many of these units are fully convinced that they are running a great Scout program. I talked with one Adult who told me that his Troop had a great program. So I asked him about it. They 65 Scouts and had 29 Eagles in the last 4 years. I asked him with 65 scouts how many patrols do you have? None,. We dont use patrols What are your meetings like? We really focus on advancement and do MBs at every meeting and then play Dodgeball With so many Eagles, you must have a really good older Scout program Most of our Scouts make Eagle by 14 and then leave, so we really dont have an older Scout program. I had another Adult tell that His Troop planned a great Scout program, its just that the Scouts didnt want to participate I just ran into the CC for my sons troop. He just came up from the Pack last March and was made CC. He asked how come my son hadnt been to troop meeting. I told him that he was bored and the Troop offered nothing for him as an older Scout. He went on to say that he didnt understand this as the Troop offered a great program. I talked with this person in the past. He wasnt a Scout as a youth. He moved up from the Pack with the same CO as the troop and never checked out any other Troops. He had taken all the basic training but had never been to Roundtable, PowWow or Scouting University. As a Cub or Scout Leader he has never attended a District or Council event. This Troop last year lost almost 1/3 (my son now makes 9 out of 29) of its members, most of them older scouts. They are now doing the same exact camping trips for the 3rd year in a row. I dont know why they think if only 5 kids went on the trip the last 2 years they are going to get a better turnout this year. I am not sure how he knows if the Troop has a great program or not with nothing else to compare it to. Definitely Something isn't working for many units out there. And I am not sure what the answer is. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

Where is the SM in all of this? Isn't one of the SM's primary responsibilities to Train and guide youth leaders? If the Scout went through the Scoutmaster Conference your SM must have felt that the Scout fulfilled the POR. If the Scout didn't fulfill his POR the SM should have caught this before having the Scout do his BOR. Perhaps a disscussion between the SM and Committee is needed as they clearly are not on the same page with regards to fulfilling the requirements for a POR.

I knew that the IH had gotten a card but I didn't look to see if it had a registration number on it. I knew that the IH can also be the COR (and the CC). Can the IH register in another postion in a unit?

I couldn't find the answer to this and are curious. Is the Head of your CO considered a Registered BSA Leader? I know they do not pay a registration fee but do get a BSA membership card. The G2SS states: "Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities." Could the IH and a parent (over 21) take Scouts on an activity and fulfill the G2SS 2-deep leadership requirement?

There is a very good Web site that has a large number of games and activities that can be searched by levels (Tigers through Scouts) or by Activity Type (quite, active or loud). Most of the Scout level stuff can be used at the Venturing Level also. http://www.boyscouttrail.com/default.asp Look at the left side under Activites and Games

There is a very good Web site that has a large number of games and activities that can be searched by levels (Tigers through Scouts) or by Activity Type (quite, active or loud). Most of the Scout level stuff can be used at the Venturing Level also. http://www.boyscouttrail.com/default.asp Look at the left side under Activites and Games

With all the discussion about planning (or lack of) It seems that more and more I am having this happen to me, not only is Scouts, but at work and at home: At the last minute someone wants me to do something and then gets pissed when I am not available. Our Ship had its first outing this weekend. At our Thursday night meeting two weeks ago I got the usual Lets go XXX on Saturday. When I stop and say that we need at least week to get the required paperwork and adults to go things seems to fall apart. When the activity was brought up all the ship members wanted to go that weekend, waiting a week only 2 showed. Our IH on more than one occasion, has walked in to a Thursday night meeting and has said, the club is doing XXX on Saturday, have the ship come and then cant understand when know one shows up. Everyone looks at me and wants to know why no one shows. I have gotten a somewhat last minute call the last 3 weeks week asking if I could staff WLOT (less than a weeks notice). This was my 2nd WB weekend. The next week I got a call asking if I could staff SM Specific/OLT this week. (just over a weeks notice). I just got a call asking if I could staff Scouting University next weekend. At work 2 or 3 times a month, we get a call asking us why we arent on-site to do our work (no one told us) or are asked to show up the next day to start. Our customers then get mad when we have to tell them that we have other projects and cant be there for a few days. Even at home I am experiencing this. I had WB a couple of weekends ago. On Saturday morning of WB, my wife got a call from her father asking when I could be at the Lake house to take out the dock. Even though we had discussed the weekends when I was going to be gone and he had made no mention of doing this he and was mad that I couldnt drop everything and wasnt available to help him. These are just a few of the instances I have had gone through just in the last few months. It always seems that I end up the bad guy. I dont know if this is a lack of planning, lack of communication, lack of common courtesy or the Me generation poking its head out again. (Or a combination of all of them). Has any one else experienced this?

One of the topics I found the most useful that was covered at Wood Badge was the 5 stages of Team-based Project Planning. The 5 steps are: 1. Project Overview 2. work breakdown structure 3. activity assignments 4. putting the plan into action 5. project closeout The way it was presented at WB could be used at any level of Scouting. They gave each Patrol a blank sheet with each step on it. We had to do a project and fill out the form. The project was to build and launch a rocket from a 2 liter plastic soda bottle. Not only did we have to present the Rocket to a team of experts (the staff) we had to show that the form had been filled out also. I plan on doing this for the Ship to learn planning. This could be done easily for Cubs also by having each Den Leader fill out the form with the boys.

The Ship members have been asking about Venturing/Sea Scout Advancement. For our next Ship meeting I am working with one of the Petty Officers to put together a presentation on the awards that Sea Scouts/Venturers can earn. Any suggestions on how to make this more than just a sit and watch presentations. I have looked through some of the requirements and dont see many that can be done during an overview type presentation. We are talking about attending the Sea Scout training weekend in January that has classes that interest the Ship members. What other ways can I encourage ship members to work on Sea Scout/Venturing Awards?

Too much water! If we eliminate all the water, maybe Scouting wouldn't shrink! Watch it Ed. Them there is fightin' words to us Sea Scouts!

Some of the things we did on our WEBELOS campouts were to have the Boy Scouts setup and run the events for the WEBELOS. The Scouts have done the fire building, First Aid, etc. but now they get the chance to teach these to the younger guys. One activity that worked well was a Map and Compass course. Have a few of the scouts set up the course (this can take a while)and then have the WEBs go through the course later. We also found doing Foil Dinners was a big hit. Having the boys make their own dinners seemed to go over really well. And there is very little cleanup. Make sure you have the Boy Scouts plan a campfire for the evening. This always went over with the Webs.

In talking just about activities, off the top of my head, there are a least 3 activities that Venturing Crews can do that Troops can not: Hunting Snowmobiling Shooting Handguns The one of the big differences in the Scouting programs was explained to me in this simplified manner (maybe oversimplified): Cubs be shown how to do something and try to do it. Scouts be shown how to do something and master it. Venturing - be shown how to do something, master it and teach it to someone else.

My district has there is a Pack, Troop and Crew with the same number and all three have a different CO, but are in the same town. The CO for the Pack my son was in also chartered a Troop. They both have different numbers.

Early this week this Pack had a Committee Meeting. The COR, UC and SE attended. All sat quietly and said nothing. My WB patrol member (the Ex-CM) couldnt understand if these people werent going to do anything why did they show up in the first place. We all agree it's a problem. Everyone on this forum clearly sees this is not a good situation and that it was a stupid and dumb thing to do. However the Pack Committee sees nothing wrong with the CMs actions. da former CM needs to butt out of this entirely and stick to his role of supportin' da CM and program as den leader. This is one option for the former CM, but not the most likely. He is considering leaving this Pack and joining another. I think that he was placed into a tough situation being the ex-CM and still involved in the program; the other upset parents were looking to him to help resolve this situation. He did very thing training instructed him to do in a situation like this and these people failed to act. But if no one does nothing -Nothing happens. Nothing was done and something will happen. It is up to the "More than one parent was upset over this" to take the action that they feel is needed. The other parents will be taking the action they feel is needed they as they will be pulling their sons out of Cub Scouting. This is one of the reasons the Ex-CM got involved as far as he did. He grew this Pack from 8 Cubs to over 40 in 3 years and is now seeing come undone in less then 3 months. Bad choices were made and the situation has been made worse by even more bad choices.

From Wikipedia: The wedgie is a joke maneuver done to humiliate someone. It is inflicted when someone grabs the victim's underwear (from the back) and pulls them up between the buttocks. The CM gave the Wedgie to the CIT.

One of my WB patrol members was telling us about a situation his Pack was having. He stepped down in June as Cubmaster to take over the Packs WEBELOS II den. In August the Pack went to Cub Resident camp. At this camp the new CMs 14 year old (male) next door neighbor was a CIT. One afternoon he loudly announced he was going to give this kid a Wedgie. He had the boys in the Pack cheer him on and they were all cheering while he was doing this. More than one parent was upset over this. There have been other incidents since June with this new CM but this was by far the worst. It was reported to the Pack Committee, CO and SE. Here is where the major players stand on this incident CO and COR want nothing to do with this situation and are leaving it up to the BSA. Pack Committee see nothing wrong with this and do not want to do anything. Old CM thinks the new CM should be asked to step down for a year. If he wants to continue to as a leader after that he will need to repeat all the training. He also thinks that the Pack Committee should all have to retake YPT. I agree with this as did the other patrol members. SE it is in his hands to make a decision. What should happen to this new CM? I am meeting with my WB patrol tonight and should find out the SE decision.