InquisitiveScouter

Also, recommend you let your COR know of the arrangement...

8 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Agreed. Also, what would a unit do about the bankruptcy? Not much. So, as long as a couple stay a bit informed, for the most part, the units shouldn't spent energy on the bankruptcy. It would be a waste. 

We were discussing the possibility of Chapter 7.  If that happens, what would we do at the unit level? The desire, at least on our part, is to continue scouting as a church sponsored youth group.  Program would be pretty much the same, minus advancement and uniforms.  The current question we are looking into is cost of insurance coverage should we forge ahead sans BSA...

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Lucky they didn't ban you. Amazing for an organization with ideals like Scouting, that so many corners of the org are ran so unethically and secretively. Not just the child abuse, but regarding finances and local politics as well. 

My SE did take adverse action...removed me from all council and district positions...and never had the courtesy to let me know...had to hear it from other volunteers when they were submitting rosters for training staffs and renewing district/council positions.

12 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

No not just you. 

Whenever I ask for financials, I always get the "Why do you want to know?"  To me, that is the first sign someone is hiding something.  I even got this when I asked for IRS 990s.

At least for the IRS 990s, I wrote back, "Because the law says you have to provide them."  

Went to Roundtable last night and spoke with some in our district who are usually well-informed and whose opinions I seek when dealing with issues. (There is a group of five, specifically, that I seek counsel with.)

None of them knew who Michael Johnson was, nor knew of the presser. (This surprised me.)

None of them knew the latest plan was out for a vote.

Only one knew how much our council contribution was to the fund.

All were surprised to learn the former Director of YP would say that BSA is unsafe.

All understood my heartache over the issue and my wrestling with the decision on whether to renew my membership.

All do not hold our council or National leadership in any high regard.  Four of five agree we need new professional leadership at all levels...lack of true leadership is a "systemic" issue. The fifth said he hadn't really thought about it.

They all wear several hats...primarily working at the unit level, and then spending "spare" time at district or council positions.  My sense is, they feel what's going on at National has no impact on them, and if it all goes awry, they'll keep on doing a scouting-like program with their units without a national/council structure.  They'll soldier on.

32 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Is that not really the same thing that would have happened if a police report was made out?  Until guilt or innocence was established they would not be allowed in scouting.  In fact if a scouter came forward today and named an abuser wouldn't the person be removed from scouting until scouting was 100% positive that the claim was bogus.

Yes, they do.  Upon any accusation, the leader is supposed to be automatically removed.  I have seen this in writing somewhere, but cannot find the source just now...

7 minutes ago, jcousino said:

if zero tolerance is not your goal then please get away from any youth.

Zero child abuse is the goal...

"Zero tolerance" is not, because EVERY case is different.  Some are clear cut.  Others are not.  Those that are not require dialog amongst unit leaders, parents, SE (currently), and then law enforcement and courts to find a way through the quagmire.

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

What do you mean by, “showers/showering at summer camp”? 

I think it just means knowing which building is the shower house...at least that's what it seems to be for our Scouts.

We incentivize the behavior we want...take a shower on Wednesday, get an ice cream!  And yes, for some we have to define "shower"... but never "ice cream"

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

How many actually do? Close to zero. My COR wouldn't know any of my ASMs to look at.

Our COR has a Scout in the Troop, and camps with us regularly...is on the Board of the Church...very involved guy, and really makes the CO-Troop relationship strong - best I have seen in 35+ years of Scouting...

3 hours ago, DeaconLance said:

I guess I am flabbergasted that after all this the BSA and every state isn’t requiring background checks and clearances.  6 years ago Pennsylvania by law requires any one 18 and above involved with youth organizations to have:

1.  A State Police background check

2.  PA Childline clearance (no accusations of abuse)

3.  If you have not lived in PA for 10 years FBI background check.

And the State Police Check and Child Abuse check are free...the FBI fingerprint check is about $25.  If you are a PA resident for 10 years, you turn in an affidavit of such and that you have not been convicted of a list of child abuse charges...

5 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Lots of info to try and digest.

Question though:  Are the amounts required from the councils locked in concrete?  Seems like that could blow up and be reopened.  

Thanks to those who continue to track this.

 

No, not locked in concrete.  A council could always give more of their own volition...but they won't.  And even if they did, it would probably only be used to reduce the share of the other councils. What's the current total to LC's...$600M?

6 minutes ago, yknot said:

those pockets require a lot of alchemy to create and sustain.

Love this... would give it two hearts if I could...spot on!

Just now, ThenNow said:

Lest we skip over this simple five word line, there is clearly more to be revealed. I, for one, am most intrigued, even while mostly dead.

I have no clue how you guys put up with this for years and years and years on end. I know. I know. Love for kids and love of Scouting, but good Lord. 

Hoping (against hope) and working for change at our level...

For example, at the local unit level (the only place I have most influence), we have implemented more stringent YPT measures.

#1, ANY adult who wants to camp with us has to have background checks done. 

#2, a personal promise from me to every adult on an outing that, if they harm one of the kids under my care, I will risk prison for murder or attempted murder.

#3, encouraging as many registered adults as possible to attend, not only to better supervise the younger Scouts, but to be able to provide the older ones the opportunity to go off on their own adventure, and to better keep an eye on each other (adult-wise).

#4 Ensuring the COR knows and interviews each and every registered adult, and knows who is going on the outings  (the COR lives two blocks from me, and we speak almost daily)

#5 Regular discussions at committee meetings about child abuse, signs and symptoms, and whether we are seeing any of these in any of our Scouts...(Part of my SM "State of the Troop" address)

#6 Personally asking parents, with Scout Handbook and materials in hand, whether they have reviewed the Youth Protection exercises there with their Scout.

etc, etc, etc

Vigilance, friends, is the watchword.

Long ago I mentally separated BSA from Scouting.  I do not equate the two anymore.  The mindset is, we have our own scouting program, and use the BSA materials as a baseline for our program, and build from there...

So, having slept on it...

Does Johnson's presser yesterday affect anyone's thoughts on remaining affiliated with BSA until more of these changes are manifested?

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I think my frog may be boiled, and, as we are nearing recharter time, I'm wondering if the thing to do is to decline renewing my BSA membership...

Anyone else struggling with this?

Just now, ThenNow said:

Do you take it off to make your dinner and re-don it once it cools? Charred side in or out? Inquiring minds...

Oh no!!  I make a new one every day, as every authentic tinfoil hat wearer knows to do...the aluminum loses potency throughout the day as it wards off the toxic energy and thought control waves.

I use heavy duty...but I do recycle!

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Kosnoff has a message for me.

It is all good: this is all material in the public domain and it isn't about attribution. I just really find it insightful of all the material we post here (and it is a lot) what gets his interest the most/is most notable.

I know we produce a LOT of material but the question is whether it is relevant. I'm glad to see it is.

 

Yup, CS = Kosnoff...tinfoil hat on for the morning...

7 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

What was the IVF entry on him? Did BSA create it on their own initiative subsequent to the initial conviction? Upon hearing the charges? Was the arrest in any way related to BSA? I’m not poking, just asking because a better understanding of the facts will help me ponder and respond. Or, ponder and don’t respond, just hit one of those little buttons of which I’m glad someone else noted there are far too few to cover the range of emotions and reactions evoked by posts on this forum. Anyway...

DM'ed you with the story... I'm not comfortable pushing his name out publicly, as he is exonerated.

8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes it can destroy the innocent. I know someone who was cleared of any wrongdoing, but is still in the IVF. And it did affect her reputation in the community.

I know a man who was convicted (wrongfully) of murder, later exonerated and released, who petitioned BSA to be removed from IVF.  The answer was "No." 

Image before ethics.

2 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Do you think that people who have not had any criminal complaint should be included in what is put out publicly?

No.  Many of those people would be unjustly tarred with the same brush.

4 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Just to clear up any misconceptions...the religious awards are NOT BSA awards and it is not a BSA program.  The award should be earned through the scout's religious leader and awarded by the church.  It is one of the few non-BSA awards that the BSA allows to be worn on the uniform. (Medal OR square knot, not both).

 

 

No misconceptions... is says that clearly in the G2AI link above...

"Religious emblems are not considered Scouting awards. Instead they are earned by members and then presented to them by their religious leaders. Each faith has its own requirements for earning their respective emblems. A list of the emblems and more information about the programs can be found at www.scouting.org/ awards/religious-awards/."

6 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Does anyone here seem to think that today’s news conference will change the course of the Bankruptcy?

I think it gives more ammunition to the forces that think Chapter 7 is the right way to go.  Dissolve the organization and start over.

1 minute ago, Muttsy said:

Kosnoff is not that smart. 

It's my delusion...all mine 😛

9 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Cub Scout through Methodist Church

OK, so there are actually two "awards" here.

First is the "medal" based on the grade-appropriate program the Cub Scout completed.

Jesus and Me - K-1

God and Me - 2-3

or God and Family - 4-6

https://store.praypub.org/

Again, someone has to purchase that medal (and/or a handsome patch).   Each of those medals is $12.50 plus shipping, etc.  As stated, this is most approriately done by the Scout's place of worship, but I recommend you call the parents and/or pastor, and/or mentor to coordinate and find out what's the what.

Second, there is the Youth Religious Award Knot (if this is the Scout's first award), also previously mentioned.  This is most appropriately presented by the unit, and (most appropriately) after the medal above is presented.  A Scout may wear this knot on his uniform forevermore.  Yes, even as an adult

If this is the Scout's second or subsequent religious award, then the unit should purchase an appropriate "gold device" to wear on the knot.

From the Guide to Awards and Insignia

"Any combination of miniature devices may be worn on the same Youth Religious Award knot: Cub Scout, No. 604950; Webelos Scout, No. 932; Scout, No. 927; Venturer, No. 930; Sea Scout, No. 931."

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Religious_Emblems_WEB.pdf?_gl=1*b2csj1*_ga*MjI5OTE1NDQ1LjE2MzIzNDUwNTE.*_ga_20G0JHESG4*MTYzNDA2NzIwNC4xMC4wLjE2MzQwNjcyMDQuNjA.

Here is a the Cub Scout pin device, $2.99

https://www.scoutshop.org/cub-scout-device-pin-604950.html

You can search any of the device numbers above on scoutshop.org to see what is needed.

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Which indicates BSA tried to hit him with a directive NOT to cooperate with discovery requests.

Ha-ha. That backfired.

And that's probably why they never hired someone from outside the organization...

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I am in my 5th year and this is the first time someone has earned the Religious Emblem.

How do we go about the actual award?  Does the parent pick it up?  Does the Unit pick it up?

I know we will acknowledge it at a meeting, but just not sure of the logistic side of it.

As far as recognizing the award, that is most appropriately done at that Scout's place of worship.  But, that is up to the Scout.  Ask them how and where they want it presented.