InquisitiveScouter

1 hour ago, malraux said:

The STEM Scouts program is already effectively dead. The rumor is that the whole of the NOVA/Supernova program going away. I'm not sure if I were to simplify the cub program if the nova program is where I'd start. While I see the need to cut some stuff out, I'm not sure how they evaluate the cost benefit of such things.

I am a Nova and Supernova Counselor, and have been for years.  I have offered program support to our PLC, District, and Council.  In my six years in this council, only our Webelos Den worked on the Supernova, and one other Lone Cub Scout completed same.

It is one smaller, unrequired layer of an extremely complex tapestry of Ranks, Merit Badges, and Awards.  There just isn't that much interest... 

Guiding them on a somewhat narrower path to Eagle is about as much as most want to pursue...

• Ensuring two-deep leadership if circumstances dictate, speak privately and respectfully with the person demonstrating bias to coach them in how to remedy the behavior in the future.
• Check on the recipient of the inappropriate behavior, ensuring their well-being and making sure they understand that they are valued and that the behavior they witnessed is not a Scouting value.
• Report the incident to the Scout Executive. Even seemingly minor/resolved incidents can be offensive to recipients of the behavior and deserve to be treated as a possible violation of Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse.

Ok, so working through this "training" atm....and I read this....

Uh, no...I'm not going to report minor incidents, such as a Scout telling an offensive joke, to our SE as a "...possible violation of Scouting's Barriers to Abuse."

28 minutes ago, UKScouterInCA said:

I don't think there has ever been one.

Why? I can guess at two reasons.

First, Philmont charges per Scout not per Crew, so unless your number goes below the minimum for a crew then there is little incentive to add strangers into your crew.

Second, there are great options for Scouts to attend Philmont as individuals (OA Trek, Ranch Hands, Conservation Crew etc) where those opportunities don't (I think) exist at the other HA bases (except a single Opkip trip)

Ahhh... learn something new every day!  I was under the mistaken idea that Philmont charged for crews rather than individuals.

Thanks for the correction!

But, there is still the minimum of 8 per crew, right? So such a resource could be helpful.

Asking for a father-son team who wish to go (they cannot make the timing of our council contingent)...the individual opportunities are open only to youth, right? (or am I mistaken on that, too??)

1 hour ago, Better4itall said:

Hmmmm - you're right @Fred8033, the Scout needs to drive their own advancement cadence (sometimes maddeningly) but some MB's need some placement; Swimming before Lifesaving, and in our Troop we feel that Family Life and Personal Management are much more meaningful at age 16-17 than 12-13, so some steering happens there, too.  At a minimum, the MBC can distribute the reqs and check them off, I expect a lot of that this year.  I'm hoping for insights to make it better than a TPS Report.

Don't forget the cover sheet...hmmm...that'd be great...

That reference is actually more applicable in another regard, as this badge is really just "flair"

I thought there used to be a site for Philmont like this one for for Sea Base

https://www.bsaseabase.org/scouts/scout-connections/view-openings/

Anyone know where it is (if extant)?

P.S.  Not look for full crew openings...just crews who need bodies to fill out their crew to full complement.

This practice just does not sit right with me...

Purchasing a third-party release from liability through our judicial system at pennies (or less) on the dollar?

Does this not remove a victim's right to due process?

I've turned this over in my head and heart for many months.  I can find no other way to see this.  Our justice system should not operate this way.  It stinks.

3 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Maybe progress with the Catholic Church?

 

https://missoulian.com/news/national/scouts-reach-deal-with-catholic-committee-in-bsa-bankruptcy/article_06a6c79c-6d92-5488-8fca-d079972d59b9.html

 

Here's a non-firewalled link directly to AP News...

https://apnews.com/article/business-religion-delaware-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-dover-287019e3686c8b0005ffe6ee715a4a04

6 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

And quite a few had a youth scouting experience which was completely adult driven and run; they are doing what they know. Quality Control in BSA is non-existent and hasn't existed for decades.

The only apparatus I know of for this "Quality Control" and some sort of 'standardization' of program and execution would be through a Commissioners' Corps.

This is one critical area lacking in our council...I think because the primary pool of candidates for Commissioner, those 'graduated' unit leaders, have become jaded by how crappily (is that a word?) our council is run and how our dedicated volunteers are treated with disdain...

No one wants to join a losing team, especially when they have seen others with equal dedication join that team and just get beat down...

1 minute ago, yknot said:

It's a great approach but it's counter culture in a lot of units. 

You got that right!

But, there is loads of research touting the value of unstructured time as critical for youth development.

29 minutes ago, yknot said:

So true. Unfortunately there are a lot of units that have a very advancement focused, regimented culture. If you can't find time for a hike, or a couple of hikes, or for just checking out the stream or some flashlight games, something is wrong. The other thing I hate is when it becomes tailgating in the woods and no one can leave the campsite because food is the entire focus. I don't mind an occaisional camp out dedicated to cooking involved meals, or a signature fun meal or snack, but I also think if you are toting multiple coolers and apparatus into the woods every weekend you are missing out on the woods.

One thing we have put into the Troop culture for trip planning is to block off 3 or 4 hours of 'unstructured time'  where the Scouts figure out what they want to do 'in the moment'.   All kinds of Scouting breaks out...one set of buddies builds (another) fire,  some hike, some have a rock skipping contest, flag folding, lashing, knife, ax, and saw work, rope work, some grab an older Scout or adult to work on requirements, etc, etc, etc  The only limitation is that you cannot sit around playing on a screen. 

50 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

One thing to always remember is that the rules imposed by national are created by people who don't have to live with them and make them work. They are also created by people who, in my opinion, are more focused on the big picture of keeping the organization financially solvent. That second part is definitely necessary, but it can come at the cost of frustrating the VOLUNTEERS who have to make their decisions work.

I'm sure they will deny it, vigorously, but I don't get the impression that National and Council leadership cares much about the effects their decisions have on us or if we don't like their decisions.

We haven't done a camporee in years because the scouts said it was the least enjoyable activity. It was the only activity I did because I had to be there, not because I wanted to. I hated being crammed together with other troops, many of whom disregarded quiet hours. Adults next to us started their breakfast at 4:30am. I really had to censor myself when I asked them what they were doing. They said their troop starts early. Fine, if you're by yourselves, go ahead. That was our last camporee.

And if you've got some very small troop struggling to survive, support their efforts to live. But I also get the impression that national would prefer consolidation of troops into fewer, but bigger troops. Well, you're going to have to dump the dumb (IMHO) charter organization way of operating for that.

Just my 1 cent. It's really not worth 2 cents.

Your wisdom is worth much more🙂💪😜

This rule is ludicrous.

To the point, as an SM, I answer to the Troop Committee Chair and the Chartered Org Rep.

In the case of multiple units camping together, if all CORs approve, the district or council can't say squat.  This is probably the only lever that National wants the LCs to pull anyway.  If you have CO top-cover, thru your COR, you are good to go.

So, if you have say an email chain from the three CORs approving the event, you could send that to your DE, informing them of your outing, so they know, for 'legal' purposes only.

If your COR is not FULLY aware of the scope and program for your outings, then you have failed to 'let your boss know what you are doing'

2 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

What's wrong with blue hair?

It's not green!! That's what!!

24 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

For those of you who are confused about how survivors feel about paying out of the settlement pot, please read the following:

 

2bb5e1b8-2ed8-427f-afab-a5c44f8d373a_9128.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com)

Also how we feel about lawyers who can only tell us how hard they work!!

LOVE that letter 😜

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

First off, in your 1000 or so posts, I can’t recall you saying one positive thing about the BSA. Second, if you don’t preach it, you don’t teach it. The BSA vision is building character. That’s what the organization preaches, and that is what they teach. Not everyone is in it for the vision, but most are. The moral standards of character is still noble.

Barry

No, Barry, it is the volunteers at the unit level who are "teaching" it.  I find few examples in the professional corps who are teaching it.  And I look for them.

When I do find them, I praise them profusely and support them.  Publicly and privately.  Can't speak for @yknot of course.

The last three DE's I had significant contact with, who walked the talk, have left BSA employ.  Two of the three because of the internal rottenness they could no longer stomach.

It's been a long while since I have interacted with an upstanding SE.  Totally agree this is my subjective opinion, and others are free to believe and behave otherwise...

57 minutes ago, skeptic said:

It occurred to me this morning that the problem I, and others, may be having is equating the BSA, the organization with the people behind it.  It is the people that have made the poor choices and not responded as we may think, or even know, today, they likely should.  (We are likely not seeing the total pictures due to time and lack of actual information).   The organization is made up of people, and often those people let it down for whatever reasons.  Having the skill and actually even bravery to stand against wrong actions and especially evil is hard, and far too many of us fail.  It then somehow gets transferred to the larger organization, and all its people, which is where the "broad brush" I speak of comes in.  It is interesting that a quote from a completely unconnected article this morning seems to pinpoint much of this discussion/debate/diatribe.

"Our society has become so quick to judge and point fingers and blame, and somewhere along the line, we've forgotten about kindness and compassion and forgiveness. And we've forgotten that we're all human and we all make mistakes."

 

 

There really is no concrete thing as an "organization."  That is an "agreed-upon fiction."  People constitute organizations, and without people, there is no organization.  When I refer to the BSA, I refer to the people running it, leading it, and making and/or carrying out the decisions.  And, as is this case, people often hide (retain anonymity) behind the shield of an organization.

Also, there is a difference between mistakes and immoral actions.  A mistake is something generally done without intent, or out of ignorance.  I am very forgiving of mistakes.  Even then, I defer to Lincoln, "When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest."

Immoral actions (or downright crimes) usually involve intent.  Prerequisites for forgiveness and compassion in those instances are sincere confession, contrition, and wherever possible, restitution.  These are what are lacking.  Otherwise, punishments and scorn are the just deserts.

Just now, ThenNow said:

THIRD MODIFIED FIFTH AMENDED CHAPTER 11 PLAN OF REORGANIZATION FOR BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA

Doesn't that say volumes about the way this organization conducts itself?

10 hours ago, yknot said:

It's not weird. It is sadly a cynical opinion based on experience. For lack of a better word, relationships between paid staff and volunteer or even elected volunteer boards can be incestuous. That's pretty real world. 

Yes, I have observed the trend of SEs finding people who have drunk the kool-aid and recruiting them to their boards.  (BTW, why would the SE have any influence over who is on the executive board?)

Typical boards are NOT representative of the people in the community who make up the volunteer corps.  I find their interests and agendas are not aligned with the ideals of Scouting, as their actions routinely demonstrate.

Wow, is that for one month of billing?  Surely not.

Gents, you are operating under a misguided assumption...

"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

Vision "The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law."

Nowhere in the mission or vision statement does it say the professional corps, or national or council boards will subscribe to the values and ideals of Scouting.

Our assumption is that it would be inherent that all would walk the talk, but my experience over a "career" of 43+ years as a Scout and Scouter says it just isn't so.

And as this culture comes more and more to light, as it has in the national-level controversies of recent decades, and as it is in this bankruptcy process, BSA membership will dwindle.

Character matters.

18 minutes ago, PaleRider said:

They keep a damn book with names and hid them.And still today are fighting to keep them all from being released.Here is my bigger paint brush for 40 damn years my life has been pure hell because those suit and ties for over 100 years did nothing but protect them and the abusers not us.Now unless you were abused don't preach to me.You haven't a damn clue as to how I'm feeling.Sobyou can take up for these clowns all you want to.BUT THE FACT IS THEY FAILED US.THEY PREACHED TO US WHAT A BOY SCOUT REPRESENTS WHILE THEY DID NOTHING TO PROTECT US. NO NEED FOR YOU TO REPLY BECAUSE IM DONE WITH THIS CONVERSATION.AND IF I RUFFLED YALLS FEATHERS TO BAD CAUSE EVERYTHING IVE SAID IS THE TRUTH.

No ruffled feathers here, brother.

I am heartened by your righteous indignation and want you to stay and keep giving us that perspective. 

16 minutes ago, PaleRider said:

They say time heals all wounds

It does, but still leaves tremendous scars and sensitivity. 

One minute at a time, brother...one minute at a time...

Don't know you, but my heart goes out to you. Not much solace, I know, but sometimes just knowing you are not alone helps.

12 minutes ago, malraux said:

If we are building a program with a lower limit of 18, is there a good reason to cap it at 21?

No.

14 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Scouting lost phenomenal folks due to the changes in the age policy, All of them feel that BSA disrespected them. Which is really sad because in my experience the 18-20 year olds are better Scouters than the recently crossed over adults because A. they have the knowledge, skills, and abilities already, despite the lack of official training, and B. they were the peers and role models of the Scouts, and they already have the respect of them. In one case the person who aged out would be unable to follow YP policies outside of Scouting since he is still in HS and several of his classmates are involved in Scouting. Since he is not registered, he can contact the Scout anytime needed now.

 

I'd really like to see any empirical data that shows the 18-20 y.o. is more of a danger to Scouts.

Without that, I believe the policy should say just one adult over 25 years (yes, 25 years old) to run an outing, with another adult over 18.

5 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

I got an email that we weren't rechartered because we didn't pay. I had our treasurer send proof that they deposited our check.

Now I noticed that one of our scouts and his mom are no longer showing up in Scoutbook. He has the same first and last name as another scout in our troop who aged out but is now a registered adult with our troop. We had problems with his account in the past because of it.

My son just aged out but registered as an adult. He now appears twice in Scoutbook both as a scout, not adult.

Scouts who left our troop and did not re-register still appear in Scoutbook.

Calling this a mess is really an insult to messes.

Our Charter Org is our homeowners association and not to blame here at all.

Frustrating.  When we cannot get basic administrative tasks dealing with membership right, our confidence in the integrity of all other processes erodes.

Best of luck as you wade through the mess.

Have you spoken directly with your registrar?