InquisitiveScouter

5 hours ago, MGinLA said:

Anyone else agree with me or am I a lone lunatic raving in the wilderness?

False choice...both are true 😜

I agree with you, and you are a lone lunatic raving in the wilderness 🤪😝😲

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

edited the Topic title

Brilliant

12 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I don't know if the BSA is still publishing those handbooks.

They do...

https://www.scoutshop.org/patrol-leader-handbook-647788.html

https://www.scoutshop.org/sr-patrol-leader-handbook-647789.html

We provide them to our PLs, APLs, SPL, and ASPLs.  But, they mostly go unread and unpracticed.

As for adults, most don't get or won't read the SHB...

13 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

We do the Scout Oath, then the Scout Law, and then the Outdoor Code.  The sign is up for all three, as they are done consecutively.

When I took the LNT Master Educator Course, I posed this idea to the one of BSA's lead guys for LNT (name withheld).  Simply this...if BSA really wants to run a golden thread of the "ideal" of environmental stewardship throughout the program, then they need to make one simple change to say we should use the Scout sign when repeating the Outdoor Code.  Give it as much weight as the Oath and Law...

Currently, my SHB says "Give the Scout sign each time you say the Scout Oath and Scout Law."  Not a thing about the Outdoor Code in that section, yet the OC is a promise we make..."As an American, I will do my best to ..." 

Learning and explaining it are also incorporated into the rank requirements, which are good steps.

I have visited several units that do not recite the OC, and some who do but reflexively lower their Scout sign before repeating it.

9 hours ago, qwazse said:

@InquisitiveScouter, in causal modeling, it is irresponsible to suggest that variables that have not been measured would take precedence without identifying exactly what hasn’t been measured and how much hasn’t been explained. So, for example, if you say the changes in some species could be explained by some non-climate related variable. The argument only holds water if the de-tractor names the causal variable (e.g. vampire zombies) and the degree to which it impacts the outcome (e.g. they sucked the brains of 10 of the 15000 birds examined, although interesting, does not make it a causal factor). In other words, saying ornithologists are taking cheap shots is exactly what someone who can only make cheap shots would say. Anybody with something credible to say would propose a mediator, its magnitude, and any assumptions underlying its proposition.

@qwazse, no!

If I took a cheap shot (your cheap shot description of my comment), it was at the reporter who cherry-picked things from the study to drive an agenda (bias) of pushing the narrative of "human-caused climate change" up front, but then later in the report equivocates and relates what the researches actually said...

"The researchers’ data showed links among temperature trends, precipitation trends and body sizes.

Now, the question is: What, precisely, is happening and why?

It’s not clear whether the species’ genetics are evolving to adapt to a new climate.

“Evolution could happen on this time scale,” said a co-author of the study, Phil Stouffer, a professor at the Louisiana State University School of Renewable Natural Resources. “It’s a really important question to understand.”

It’s also unclear what benefit the birds get from the changes to their bodies."

If you read the study (I did, after you accused me of a cheap shot) you'll see the researchers do get around to being intellectually honest in some of their findings...

"Because the time trend for mass—but not for wing and especially not for mass:wing—mostly faded after controlling for seasonal temperature, it is possible that lower bird mass is a plastic response to changing climate whereas lower mass:wing and longer wings are an adaptive compensation with a yet unresolved mechanism.  {emphasis added}

Here is a link to the actual study...https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abk1743 (also provided above by @RememberSchiff)

As to your causal modeling comment, here are a few other variables which the study does not address:

1) Changes in resource availability (i.e., food sources) which drive birds to fly farther in search of scarcer sustenance for themselves and their offspring.  Although the researchers found birds changed across most foraging guilds (foraging guilds relates to adult food sources)...ornithologists estimate 96 % of birds feed live insects to their young.  So...did the loss of rainforest habitat, agriculture, pesticides, smoke, dust, etc. change the availability of insect food sources for young so that all foraging guilds had to fly farther to get food to rear their young, and body sizes changed to accommodate this?  The study doesn't address this plausibility.

2) Another possibility: the birds were going to change anyway, irrespective of precipitation or temperature changes.  The data goes back four decades and shows a trend toward smaller size.  Since we don't have data for the past millennium or so (pick your time period), we cannot say whether all the bird species changes were already trending, and those trends were just continuing.

3)  Did observed rapid changes in the earth's magnetic field affect the birds' navigational abilities, so that they have to fly more or less than previous decades? https://ssec.si.edu/stemvisions-blog/how-do-birds-navigate  https://earthsky.org/earth/earths-magnetic-field-change-faster-thought/  The study doesn't address that...

Are those credible enough for you??  If not, I can cite more...without pursuing a PhD in Ornithology.

I believe the biggest issue is lack of adult leaders with the time needed to create and nurture a robust unit program.

At each unit, I would start a separate 501c3, similar to "Troop XX Booster Club", and that corporation would hire a full time unit leader called "Scoutmaster'. Each member has a fee and/or fundraising goal to support this. Then, I would hire someone ( like a retired veteran) who is already financially independent (or nearly so) so they wouldn't have to rely on their unit salary to live, but that salary would cover ALL costs associated with their unit functions.  Limit unit size based on how many adults the corporation could hire (that's a whole other discussion), so that the paid positions' span of control for mentoring and managing is workable.  Drive the actual cost of Scouting to the unit level.

There are other groups that do this all the time...churches for example, hiring a pastor.

And some councils (at least in the past) have paid unit leaders to work in units in underserved areas.

1 hour ago, yknot said:

That study has some strange omissions, like the fact that the Amazon has also lost 20% of its acreage/habitat in the past 30 years or so, but the Bird Study badge, along with many badges and rank requirements, are desperately in need of updating and revamping. We truly do need more outdoors in scouting, and what is offered needs to be more relevant, up to date, and field oriented. 

Agreed.  Overall, I think BSA is missing the boat on instilling a mindset of stewardship.

Culture question...do you and your Scouts raise your Scout sign when repeating the Outdoor Code?  If not, what is the subliminal message?  (I know many who do not, and think it inappropriate to do so because it is not prescribed so in the Scout Handbook.)

9 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Every species, on average, weighed less than it had when it was measured in the early 1980s, which the researchers say has no other explanation than a changing environment. 

"No other explanation" does not equal cause.  It is irresponsible and illogical to make such a leap to say measured changes in climatic conditions caused changes in bird species. 

They observed these changes and created a new hypothesis which posits the changes were caused by climate changes.  Great...now design and conduct an experiment to test that hypothesis...

Be wary of bias in interpretation which pushes a specific agenda.

You cannot register as a Committee Member and Den Leader in the same unit...

But, we all know people who fill both of those roles.  I assume this is for the Den Leader Training Award?

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Den-Leader-Training-Award-511-052_WB.pdf

If your member has been doing the job of a Den Leader (even while registered as an MC), and has fulfilled the training and performance requirements, then talk to your District Training Chair and make the case for them to get the knot.  Ask if the District Training Chair would approve the award in that case.  The answer may be "No" because of the "registered" requirement, but it might be "Yes, sure thing!" 

35 minutes ago, MattR said:

If nobody can think of how to make a patrol-MB for a normal MB, then maybe that MB needs reconsideration.

This^^^  If the Patrol Method is the heart of Scouting, then this logically follows.

On 10/27/2021 at 7:53 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

No requirements posted yet...

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/merit-badges/

"Units with different chartered organizations that wish to hold activities together must have council approval. In addition, some states require such activities to be licensed."

https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/

Anyone attending this in GNYC??

This merit badge counselor training will be required to offer the Citizenship in Society merit badge in the Greater New York Councils. Join us this Saturday, Oct 30th, 12-4 pm at our Council headquarters.  Space is limited, registration is required.   If you are not able to attend, future training will be offered. This merit badge will be launched on Nov 1, 2021, and we need your help in helping our scouts earn this merit badge.  Citizenship in Society will be Eagle-required by July 1, 2022. To inquire for additional details, please reach out to the GNYC DEIB Committee Chair Antonio del Rosario at teamantoniodelrosario@gmail.com.

https://scoutingevent.com/640-CitizenshipSocietyMB

I wish I could offer some words of compassion or advice that would improve your situation and help you. 

What you describe should not have happened.  It was not Scouting, and I hope you have experienced a better outcome at your new unit.

Greetings @Krad!

Yes, a horrible situation you have been (are still going) through.  Not much more to add to what @T2Eagle has said, except...

The statute of limitations for assault and battery in NC is three years, so, as I understand it, there may be no recourse through a  criminal complaint.  If this had been done at the time by your parents, then there is something the local council (national would let them handle it) could have done.  Without more facts, it is hard to tell...

So, what is it that you want to happen now?

7 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

And, I just want to say, I rather vented on what I consider "insiders" on this forum, speaking in a partially obtuse code.  Speaking to each other.  It is hard to follow at times.

7 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

So, I say again, everyone make clear references so the outsiders can follow along.

You mean like

"SCOTUS:   An enigma wrapped in a paradox, encased in concrete....Allen, Churchill, Alfred E. Neuman, Maynard G. Krebs, Bugs Bunny? (I get my mentors so confused.)

I was just trying to distinguish the different concepts for folks.

After the decision in Korematsu vs. United States, who can trust SCOTUS to follow the Constitution?"

I didn't understand most of those obtuse (insider?) references, so I educated myself and looked them up...then proceeded not to whinge about it.

Physician, heal thyself...

No requirements posted yet...

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/merit-badges/

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

BSA’s lead counsel, Jessica Lauria, was self-congratulatory trumpeting this feat of font compression (suppression?) in the name of cost and tree saving. Her note of it was followed by a plea for all of us to recycle.

YGBSM

9 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I thought I had a Religious Emblems Coordinator.  However, that leader is not following through with the obligation.  Its disappointing.

Disappointing and frustrating...working with people who don't do what they say they are going to do.

Price's Law at work again...

https://learnrepeatacademy.com/price-law/

13 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

The arythmetic doesn’t work, does it?

It does...calculator?? $3500 x 500 claimants  = $1,750,000

$1,750,000 x .40 = $700,000

And if you have 1000 clients, or 2500, then the fees naturally increase...

P.S. Arythmetic is a hip-hop band  

13 minutes ago, yknot said:

Their rationale was that people who had something to hide would refuse to agree to a background check and self screen anyway so why spend the money.

Before about five years ago (last instance I asked), registrars in several different councils confided that this was the case...

Now, (and I do not know when this changed), Key 3 and a few others can see in my. scouting, Unit Roster, whether background checks have been completed for registered adults...

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

My abuse happened at the hands of 2 adult buddies.

Understood, and having adults as buddies will not eliminate CSA, but it would reduce the number of instances, I firmly believe... 

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Should we ensure adults are never alone (adult buddy system)? 

This^^^

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

How do we ensure every kid has a buddy within the merit badge program? 

One idea we had was to buddy up before summer camp, and let them pick their mutual schedule.  May lead to repeating the coursework, but repetition is not a bad thing with some badges.

6 hours ago, PeterHopkins said:

If we assume it's true that the presence of unregistered parents increases the accountability of the registered Scouters, wouldn't we get even more comfort as to the safety of the youths at an event, of those parents were background checked?

Yes! IMHO, this falls under the "duty of care" umbrella for the registered adults, seeing as how 40-50 percent of abuse is by relatives (hence no tenting with parents after Cubs), and another 40 percent by acquaintances. (Final ten by strangers.)

Too many adults I know want to use the checks as a crutch, though.  As if a person having a clean record indicates they are not a potential threat.  Background checks are just one piece of the puzzle...a "barrier,"  But, very often, abusers do not have a record "...and they know it."

https://www.pennlive.com/midstate/2011/11/how_effective_are_background_c.html

https://abusepreventionsystems.com/the-safety-system/background-checks/

Wow, the fact that there are several different opinions about the policies regarding unregistered adults here among us "experts" shows the exact problem I was highlighting to Johnson when he ID'ed me back to my local council as someone who was asking questions.

For the record...unregistered adults absolutely can attend outings or overnight camping trips under the current policy, however, there must ALWAYS be at two registered adults over 21 on the outing.  That you or your local council may interpret this differently and impose stricter rules is fine, and that is within your/their purview, but the National policy, as written, allows this.  This is what Johnson was pointing out.