Jameson76

Agree that has been part of the issue. I would also argue the big step off the cliff for the BSA was in 1973 - 74 as we implemented The Improved Scouting Program. Literally one was able to attain Eagle Scout at that point without ever going outside. This moved the program so far away from it's purpose it was ridiculous. The 1974 Scoutbook actually advised that if you are on a hike and get lost the Scouts should ask a policeman for directions....oh how far we slid.

Agree - The reason for the BSA CANNOT be YPT, that is NOT our purpose. It is part of the mechanics of program (like Guide to Advancement) and not the reason for the program. We run the program to HAVE FUN, and engage the youth to be better leaders and citizens. Anytime I hear that our NUMBER ONE PRIORITY is to protect youth (basically holding this up as a sacred talisman and selling point), I shudder and realize someone may not fully understand the real reason for the BSA

We are doing (or planning) or own summer camp for later in July. Not sure of all the details and not 100% sure of the protocols, but we are stepping off the porch and working the plan. Thinking we will have +/- 20 - 25 Scouts, plus leaders Some of our initial thoughts No group transportation, parents drop off and pickup Every Scout brings their own tent You can hammock but no stacking hammocks Still figuring out meals, cook some, disposable items, bring in other meals (Pizza night) Instruction will be in smaller groups We are tapping into former leaders, troop alumni, and Eagle Scouts to help as possible with MB classes and skill instruction. Lots to do but our feedback from families showed overwhelming support for a Troop Camp this summer. Will be somewhat old school

Indications are they will refund all fees. Send a note to the council and they should process quickly

These are all great intent, but they will be executed by young staff, so it may or may not happen The biggest challenge will be dining halls, for the larger camps it's a non-starter. If you have 800 in camp (staff / leaders / Scouts) that is 2400 meals a day. Assuming you cut your dining hall capacity by 1/2, which is optimistic, the camp will need to be serving cleaning in a minimum of 6 cycles daily which will be 8 to 9 hours of time needed and varying dinner times. Maybe go all meal pickup and eat in sire While needed, the elimination of campfires and and assemblies will really cut into the summer camp experience. Also some merit badge classes will have to cut capacity significantly, adversely affecting program. Not sure there is a good solution

Atlanta Area Council has cancelled first two weeks of summer camp (Week 1 - 5/30 and Week 2 - 6/7). This is for both Woodruff and Bert Adams. They will update 30 days out, so I guess 5/14 for week 3 which is scheduled to start 6/14.

We are in the planning stages for a Troop summer camp at a State Park about 40 minutes from us. We may get +/- 20 - 25 Scouts. There is a large committee to support and the park has lake, swimming beach, trail, mt bike routes, etc. Should be fun and will likely be about 1/3 the cost Our council needs to to move beyond "planning" to have camp and give a firm YES or NO. Though honestly a firm YES is unlikely, so we may go on our own.

They (Atlanta area council) seem to be looking to modify the program, which is why one would go to camp, so agree not a good sign. The ones the Scouts want are aquatics, COPE, shooting and field sports, and rafting trips. Take away or limit those, it's a challenge First question was very revealing, what would you do if camp is cancelled or delayed.....

Saw that Arizona Closed, GA / Carolina council closed. Flint River Camp Thunder will announce at 3 today. Cherokee Council - Skymont Scout Reservation they are meeting today and should update next week. Atlanta Area is "planning" to go ahead but is also floating the late start possibility. Due to earlier school calendars the first week would start in 30 days. Philmont will update today, but no information yet.

I have voiced some concern over the way this has apparently become our mission. The BSA is around to protect youth. In many conversations that seems to be (in some Scouters opinion) the REASON we have Scouting and not part of what we do as Scouters. We are here to protect youth, that is the goal. Certainly important but not the end all be all. We are an organization whose mission is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Part of working towards that mission is YPT, as are many other parts of the Scouting program. All of these tenants are important. Just saying that we need to remember WHY we as Scouters really are involved. No family or Scout/Youth is going to join an organization who has as their main stated mission that they protect youth. In no way am I underscoring the importance of YPT. We just cannot (IMHO) let this DEFINE the BSA, this needs to be PART of what we do.

There was a line from the original Jurassic Park that was similar. Ian Malcolm: Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should

Looks like the Brady Bunch...Wood Badge Edition 😀

Not discounting legitimate concerns, but I wonder if there may be more to this than just the COVID19 concerns? Possibly the camps have been a money loser and this is the opportunity to limit losses and further move away from the outdoor program. Then they could possibly move to the sell of one or more of the 4 properties.

I see that all the time and wonder...why?? You did 90% of the work...FINISH THE JOB!!

So many camps fall into the trap of trying to maximize profit while ignoring program It is really simple math There are X instructors and the camp has Y canoes that can each hold 2 Scouts, that means my class size is Y*2, and it takes Z hours in total to get the needed instruction. You cannot change Z, the only variables that can change are X and Y. Same for rifles / archery / etc. For handicraft you have tables that are X feet of seating, only so many butts can be in a class Do the math On another note ----- our troop has an outline for our own summer camp roughed in, we are playing wait and see with the council. Plans would be for later July. Site selected and basic timetable. We have a pretty deep bench of leaders and can stand this up fairly quickly. Needless to say we will definitely bail if they only can offer online for a "reduced" fee

Assuming the shelter in place etc is lifted sometime in the summer, there will be pent up demand to go camping, etc. Most units camp monthly AUG - MAY, with summer camps and HA in June and July (your results may vary with geography). As some have noted, there will likely be chances to have multiple outings in a month. For our unit we do 9 troop outings annually (not including 2 summer camps and HA) plus a new scout outing, plus likely 1 patrol outings, and then 2 or 3 bonus small group outings. In 12 months, not counting HA, a scout could get 32+ nights camping and 15 events easily. Just need a couple of leaders and some Scouts and BAM...you've got yourself an outing

Dates are coming on when payments need to be made, so not sure when all the worlds collide. Also the troops getting the fees will be problematic as all units are not meeting. Lots of moving parts and as the current "social distancing" will not be lifted until maybe May 1 (+/- a few days) that only leaves 5 to 6 weeks to get everything in gear. That means staff disengaged from Schools etc and on-hand for camp, maybe completion of hiring the staff, filling staff holes with folks that were going to but due to circumstances but will now not be able to be there, etc etc etc. Also camp schools that certify staff have likely been delayed. Many of the typical bureaucratic BS stuff will need to be cut back so camps can run. Tough calls that will have to be made. Local troops can likely stand up a camp much quicker for a week on their own than a council can for multiple weeks if rules are not updated to conditions.

$800K?? Is that all? Hardly worth getting out of bed. I've got a widow (someplace, cannot recall at the moment) that wants to send me somewhere north of $500 million USD. All she needs is some basic detail of my finances....

Why not? I am not versed in the minutiae of elections but this may fall under the broad auspice of contracts that assumes "That which is not specifically EXCLUDED is assumed to be INCLUDED". Meaning that unless they specifically note that you cannot, then you can. The verbiage is - Before the election, the OA team must secure from the unit leader verification that at least 50 percent of the registered active unit membership is present. If at least 50 percent is not present, an election cannot be held. It only states PRESENT - this does not state PHYSICALLY present at a physical location. I see no reason that a unit could not hold a ZOOM type meeting, count those in attendance, have the Scouts e-mail or text their votes. Drive on

So...assuming we (universal WE) do go to summer camps / day camps / Philmont / Seabase / Northern Tier I wonder about health forms and ability to actually get updated ones Many of our Scouts and Leaders get theirs updated in the Spring. Obviously that is not happening now, and if the COVID19 abates and we return to a more normal state, what are the odds of getting in for routine annual physicals? More of a question on next steps and looking for opinions. My input would be BSA just says for 2020 the forms are good for 2 years and give a date in 2021 that they move back to 1 year.

We are discussing (blue skying really) about having our own summer camp. Not sure it will happen, but it could be interesting

These are not exactly 5 star facilities. At the surface, maybe, but it is NOT a conference center. Actually what is expected in a "conference" center has changed substantially in the last 20 years. Now you want to be able to fly in, easy access, good facilities, hotel rooms, great dining, maybe some offsite entertainment (Top Golf / Regular Golf / Entertainment complex) to add to the conference. Not sure the recovered strip mine has that

I will not comment on the misled, in my opinion, mis-managed or mis-judged Yes the land maybe was provided, but costs spiraled up as the wish list was made. Also two driving factors, and honestly cannot find the original documents, the Summit was to be paid in two main ways. Donations - which lag behind Attendance in NON Jamboree years - which lag behind The attendance was supposed to be heavy as the typical marketing stuff, 65% of the BSA is within XX hours to drive there. It will be the new Scouting mecca. I know for a fact that Summit reached out to local council camps to try and get them to be a "portal" for Scouts to do High Adventure. Scouts check in at council camps then they (and their camp fees) head up to Summit. Obviously the councils likely have their own HA summer camp stuff and they also need the revenue, so that has not panned out. Combine all of that; No Control of Cost, Low Donations, unrealistic attendance...you end up $400MM in debt and no real way to right the ship. Just kick the can and the bond debt down the road a might.

We actually discussed this at committee meeting. Our troop is about 75 Scouts, suburban setting. Decision was really no decision, just that we would keep on keeping on. Our "do we cancel stuff" meter will be based on the local School system. 95% of our Scouts attend the public system locally. If they were to shut down, we would follow along. Not so different from weather stuff. Also if the church (our CO) curtailed things, we would also pullback. But, as I noted to the committee, our meetings and campouts are run by the Scouts with a great amount of attention to cleanliness, hand washing, and the highest levels of sanitary conditions. Why the CDC could take lessons from the patrols on meal prep, food storage, tent tidiness, and general cleanliness. Our camping areas are so clean the Scouts can and in fact do eat things that fall of the dutifully scrubbed tables. The dreaded COVID19 would not stand a chance among our urchins.

So to build the Summit BSA formed a corp (Arrow WV). That group sold bonds, etc to finance the endeavor. The Arrow WV group "borrowed" funds from BSA to build the great and powerful Summit. This amount more than doubled and donations dwindled, but we digress. This is now listed as an asset (receivables) somewhere north of $400 million. If Summit is worth that much, have I got a deal for you on some bundled mortgages. Here is an article from 2013 that highlights the impending challenger https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boyscouts-finances-specialreport/special-report-a-439-million-camp-adds-to-boy-scouts-money-crunch-idUSBRE96E08B20130715