Eagle94-A1

Could you please elaborate?

Scouting lost phenomenal folks due to the changes in the age policy, All of them feel that BSA disrespected them. Which is really sad because in my experience the 18-20 year olds are better Scouters than the recently crossed over adults because A. they have the knowledge, skills, and abilities already, despite the lack of official training, and B. they were the peers and role models of the Scouts, and they already have the respect of them. In one case the person who aged out would be unable to follow YP policies outside of Scouting since he is still in HS and several of his classmates are involved in Scouting. Since he is not registered, he can contact the Scout anytime needed now.

That's because back in 1989, someone equated earning First Class and retention. Two factors that were never taken into account were 1) Activity level of troops and 2) LDS 11 year old patrols and mandatory registration in Scouts.

Agree. My middle son has had issues because of the paper pushing some of the paperpushing requirements for some of the active ones. Right now it the trail cooking requirements for Cooking. Two quotes come to mind with this. 1. "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." and 2. "SCOUTING IS OUTING!" In the 1970s, BSA took tried to take the outing out of Scouting to the point that between 1972 and 1979, you could earn Eagle without a single night of camping. BSA took a nosedive in membership, and Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to save the BSA. Zoom MB classes are wrong.

Does anyone remember when they went from 3 camp outs to be First Class to 6 camp outs to be First Class, and folks were so ticked off that about the increase that 19 months later they change it back to 3 camp outs? January 1, 2016 was when 6 camp outs were required for First Class. August 1, 2017 was when they changed it back?

Agree with the sentiment that Eagle is becoming to academic. I had a SMC with one of my guys and the topic came up. This is a Life Scout, with only the project and a few MBs to complete. He complained about the MB giveaways at most MBUs, and most online classes he has talked to other about. Just showing up gets you the MB in some cases. For him, it is the adventure that keep him: Cycling, whitewater, blackpowder, etc. He plans to earn Eagle, he's way to close to stop, but feels it does not have the same value as it did when his dad and I got ours. And I agree.

From experience and observation, there is a reason why mountain biking has shorter distances. My troop started working on Cycling MB during COVID using the road biking options. Spent a year working up to the 50 mile trip and did it successfully. 3 of the Scouts decided to do the mountain biking program at summer camp a month and a half after doing the 50 mile bike trip. THEY. WERE. OVERWHELMED. AND. EXHAUSTED. AND.QUIT. AFTER.THE.FIRST.DAY! (MAJOR EMPHASIS) Again these were three Scouts who had spent a year road cycling with the troop and on their own. They completed the 50 miles in the time frame ( with anywhere from 45 to 80 minutes to spare), and the downhill mountain biking trail completely exhausted them.

Going to play Devil's Advocate, so bear with me. I do like some program on camp outs. I want it stuff that the Scouts wants to do. BUT I want it also flexible enough that we can leave it out, or change it around as needed. Also want some down time where the Scouts can goof off, play guitar, etc. Reason why I say that is we had a lock in with no plans except dinner, SMCs so I can get to know my Scouts better, and prepare for our 100th anniversary. It was a mess with the Scouts themselves complaining about lack of organization. As for having fun, if it is not fun, no one will stay around, especially after earning Eagle. I've seen too many folks get Eagle and leave over the years because they are in it because of their parents. The ones having fun tend to stick around until they age out.

@ThenNow, Thank you for the link.

I do not know if the LC would tell us or not. Somewhere on the net there is a list of COs listed, if known. I also do not know how complete it is. The link to the list was posted on one of the bankruptcy pages a while back. I did access it to see if any of the units/COs I was involved with were listed, including the one unit I do know had 2 victims. None were listed. I think because the unit with 2 victims was prosecuted and dealt with, the victims are not part of this lawsuit.

As many others have noted: Agree we are here because BSA DID do something to prevent abuse using the legal standards of the time. Agree totally and it was one reason why the IVF was private, it could lead to legal trouble if the person in the IVF was never convicted. In another thread, someone posted a link to a file from 1968-69 about a volunteer who abused 12 Scouts while an ASM. Because none of the parents wanted their sons to testify in a court martial, the perp was discharged from the military instead of convicted of a crime. Because BSA had him in the IVF, he was prevented from getting back into the BSA. IMHO this is an example of how the IVF worked to protect youth. Agree 100% on this one as it will open everyone associated with it to lawsuits.

One of the reasons for using historical perspective is because society and technology were different than today. There were no mandatory reporting laws. Without witnesses pressing charges and willing to testify, there was nothing legally could be done. Please note that in the case linked, the abuse happened in 1968, which predates mandatory reporting laws, and page 9 of the record indicates that "None of the parents involved would allow their sons to go on a witness stand in a military court martial to testify...." Sadly that happened a lot more often than not. And without victims, or their parents, willing to press charges and testify, the perps were not prosecuted. As technology, this was before computers databases with near instantaneous access to information and emails with prompt responses. Everything mad to be sent to national and manually reviewed. In my opinion the case cited showed how the Ineligible Volunteer File worked the way it was suppose to. Now Do I wish the abuse had happened, ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do I wish the USAF were able to court martial the perp? Absolutely.

I've had to miss a few summer camps because my work would not allow me to take off, despite having the time. One summer I was fortunate in that the camp was 30 minutes away from work, and I was able to commute to and from camp. The one that irked me was when I found out that one of my coworkers asked for second week off at the last minute and got it. When I asked for a second week, to go to summer camp, I was told no. It worked out in the end: I had to take 8 weeks off for surgery and recovery. I am at a new job, and I do not have a lot of vacation time, especially since there are 2 weeks, 1 in summer and 1 in winter, where the job shuts down and vacation is mandatory. So my troop takes summer camp that week now.

In the summer of 1992, i helped the national Scout Shop in my council move to the new office building. During the move, was given BSA energy bars to snack on. When I asked why they were not selling them, I was told that GSUSA sent a cease and desist letter claiming they were infringing on Girl Scout cookies.

I do not know about the 1970s, but as far back as the 1980s, a council Scout Executive could not stay in the same council and go from DE to SE. There is a rule that a Director of Field Service (#2 in most councils) cannot move into a vacant SE position in their council. And it does tend to be a long path. National looks at the needs of a council, and gives the executive board a list of SE nominees that have a track record of fixing the council's issues at the time. For example, my council had a membership issue at one time, and the SE had a track records of fixing membership issues. Another time we had a program issue, and the nominees were program folks. Our current SE is a fundraising problem solver. I have met good pros who are still in DE positions after 20+ years because they do not "specialize" in problem solving.

@ThenNow, 1. repeat what I said previously about your abuse, Iam so sorry it happened and hope criminal SOLs can be lifted to get the folks that did that to you. 2. My question is in regards to settlement payments, i.e. who would be liable for misinformation on insurance? Reason I ask is because I was told, and told others, that one of the benefits of being a CO is having BSA insurance cover them. @fred8033, sadly I have read of incidents where alcohol and porn were part of the grooming process. While not on the professional side, It did involve council employees hired for summer camp. All, Fred made a comment about 20 something DEs trying to stop situations. I can tell you it is hard. But that is where training kicks in and you follow procedure to keep the victims safe.

Another stupid question, so bear with me. If council's were told they and the COs were covered by the BSA's insurance, and council representatives repeated this to COs, and they are in fact not, who is liable? Would it be National, the LCs, or the professionals who repeated what they were told to say on this matter?

Stupid question, but here it goes. If BSA does a BSA only Chapter 11, what happen when LCs and COs get sued? How will the insurance that both LC's and CO's paid be handled? Will insurance companies say "not our problem" or will they be brought into the additional lawsuits?

Agree with others, do NOT speculate. Get them the person who should, stressing SHOULD, know what is going on and can answer their questions. Sadly in my council, the Powers That Be either do not know what is going on, or are playing dumb. When the PTB had their first "Town Hall" about the future of the council, including lawsuits, they said they didn't know some of the answers to the questions being asked, and when I responded with info from this website, they were surprised. And that wasn't the first time I knew stuff before the council told folks due to this website. Once I was asked to take down info that the council had not approved yet, but the link was to a national press release that was posted on this website.

One reason why I encourage Troops to begin working with Webelos as soon as they hit 4th grade is so that by the time they Cross Over, Scouts, and more importantly the parents, are comfortable with the troop. It could be worse. Try being asked to go to summer camp within a month of Crossing Over. Back in the day, Webelos was a 1 year program with folks Crossing Over in May, and headed to summer camp in June or July. As for mandatory camping, in my experience, most Scouts HATE (emphasis) missing camp outs because that is where the true fun is. I prefer Green Bar Bill's " OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." I lost a Scout in December. When I talked to him, he said he was no longer having any fun, his brother and friends have aged out or will be moving soon, and he has other non-Scouting commitments. I told him point blank, I under stand, and if he changes his mind he is always welcome. I also said come when you can. He showed up last week.

Just remember, Lawn Darts have to follow BSA'S Shooting Sports rules, and Dodgeball is now banned.

Remember different advancement standards back then. "Master the skill" was the standard up to circa 1989 or 1999. Then it became "The badge represents what the Scout CAN DO, not what he has done (emphasis in original). Now it's one and done.

From my days as a DE, there was a 2 month buffer period, that way if there are any paperwork issues, it can be resolved. I would save a copy of this document because BSA does have an Orwellian habit of removing documents, i.e. documents that stated Dodge Ball and its variants were indeed approved games prior to 2018.

YES. My unit is in paperwork limbo. Everything has been turned in, and money has been attempted to be paid. but something in the online system is not allowing it to go through. To make matters worse, only the 2021 key 3 have access to the online system, and they are unavailable at this time. Hence why we got new Key 3.

Folks, As most may know, I just became Scoutmaster. While I have kept up with the lawsuit here. I have not been involved with my CO on this matter. Except for talking to the former IH about what has been going on in this website, I did not talk about the matter to anyone else at the CO. Last night, I was in the Scout room, and found two legal letters from Omni. I know some folks received something from them back in November. Can anyone tell me what's up. There is no specific info to my CO, but I am wondering why they got it. My COR is out of town until this weekend, so he is unavailable to discuss. I may see the old IH tonite, but do not know his new schedule. Thanks in advance.