Eagle94-A1

You mean like Green Bar Bill's WB syllabus? Why does it seem like the folks at national want todo away with everything Bill did?

Boyled, 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) I'm sorry you have a dysfunctional troop. 3) I'd follow the 10th Doctor's ( or is he the 11th now) advice and "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" I've seen first hand a troop like yours. SPL, PLs, and other PORs assigned by the SM. SM makes all decisions. etc. Only difference is there is no conflicting orders from ASMs. And I can tell you first hand the frustration you will encounter if you attempt to make suggestions for change and are ignored. The troop I know about was on the way to being the best in the district. SM was finally in the position to sit back and drink his coffee without having to leave his campsite, letting the youth he worked with run everything, when he needed to step down and a new SM volunteered. One youth at his Eagle SM conference point blank told the new SM how the changes he made was destroying the troop. He was ignored, and he stayed around long enough to have his ECOH, try to encourage change, and finally left in disgust. Three Scouts when to NYLT, found out how things should be run, expereinced it for a week, and tried to encouraged change. They were ignored. One Eagled and left. One Eagled, and is "active" in that he pays his registration fee in order to remain in the OA. He's a chapter officer, and is loving the OA. But with the troop, he doesn't attend meetings or the few camp outs they go on. Third Scout finally had enough and transferred to a Scout run troop. He Eagled, and is working on his Hornaday Award. He's still active with the troop. That's from discussions with the youth in question. And adults get frustrated too. Former SM tried to help them out. Ignored. District training chair, who was once an ASM with the troop was ignored. Unit Commissioner, the experienced old fogey who is assigned by district to help out units, kept trying to get them back on track until he died. And I tried to help them, was told I don't know what I'm talking about, and finally quit trying to help them in frustration. Now the troop is dying out. My oldest son's den was the last den they worked with, and only because I A) begged them to do something, ANYTHING, with the Webelos to get them interested in the troop and B) one of the committee member's sons was in the den. Out of that group, 2 joined a different troop, 2 eventually transferred to the troop their buddies joined, and 2 quit. Only the MC's son remains, and his oldest son is nearing Eagle. They are not doing anything with the Cub Scout pack, i.e. providing DCs, inviting them to a meeting and camp out for recruiting purposes/ AOL purposes, working with them on district level service projects, not working with them to coordinate Scout Sunday, etc. SO the last 2 batches of Cross Overs, the main group in December, and one in May, went to the different troop. They do not participate in any district or council activities, except for MB colleges and weekends. Currently they only sent 4 youth to summer camp this year. Why am I frustrated with this troop? I helped set up the troop. I helped train the original SM, worked with Scouts on MBs and the OA, camped with them etc. When it came time for oldest to be a Cub Scout, I went to their feeder pack first because I wanted him in that troop. But between that time, and the first and only camp out with them as a 4th grade Webelos, the troop fell so far that even he commented that the troop isn't doing things right after 1 camp out.

Same here. Reminds me of my DD's dad. His dad died after taking his old troop on a weekend canoeing expedition. They had just finished loading the canoes and gear when he had a heart attack.

Bad Wolf, Unit level stuff shooting sports is only for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers. Cubs can only be done at the district/council level. G2SS states that limitation. All, As others have mentioned, districts are an administrative unit of the council. Districts exist at the whim of the council basically. So there is really no change.

Ok I'm in the information management field, medical librarian to be exact, and I can tell you without a doubt that the search engine on scouting.org is one of the worse I've ever used. It's gotten to the point that I google what ever I'm looking for and add " and 'Scouting.org" to find whatever I'm searching for. And a database's search engine must be user friendly. There is a very good database available through my state's library. But it's not very user friendly. Heck I'm a librarian, can use the jargon to find information, and I still have challenges at time with that database. Hate to think what some of my MDs and RNs have to face, oh wait, that's what I'm for.

Well I too am looking at necker options. We've used standard BSA neckers, and now National supply is out of the necker business, at least the ones we used (they are still trying to get rid of some, just not ours). Really hit home when we had 2 crossover ceremonies, and no neckers One of the priorities at the next PLC 'cause we have 1/3 of the troop without a necker, and are about to get at least 8 new Scouts in December, if not more.

I thought Powder Horn was suppose to focus on HA planninng and exxecution? I woulld love too. go through th preWB21C course that focused nnot only onn leadership skills,bbut alsScoutcraft.

I think it depends. In some cases, no. But if what you have done in Scouting reflects on youur field, then yes. A friend of mine incluuded Eagle, as well as a desription of his prooject: creating portable obstacles to help train search and rescue dogs. Asyoou can gguess,he's K9 oofficer. Another young man put his summer camp experrience, which was the camp coommisioer. It related to the customer service position.

SSSSSHHHHHH, don't tell anyone, But I still got one of those in my big first aid kit. If they brought back tourniquets, they may bring back these. I like being prepared.

In regards to first aid, I know AHA has a 2 year certification process for both CPR and First Aid. Instructors also need to do recerts every two years. THEN we need to get certified with the updates that come out every 5 years. And that is one of the biggest challenges in regards to first aid training: research changes techniques every 5 years. Best example I can give is CPR. back in the day it was 5:2 and Airways, Breathing, Circulation. Now it's 30:2, and Circulation, Airway, Breathing. Anyone remember when bleeding was Direct pressure, elevation, pressure point, tourniquet? Then they took out tourniquets and replaced with pressure ball and bandage? Now they brought back tourniquets. So I can understand why they want the 2 year recerts for first aid. On a differnent note, didn't the old pre WB21C course cover a lot of what we are talking about?

Here's my thoughts. 1) Things happen despite the best planning. Best examples I have are two weeklong canoe trips. On the first one, while prepared for bad weather, it was worse than predicted. Had to make camp at an alternate site and catch up the next day. Second one, non-Scout realted, involved a coworker who got seriously sick and a medevac had to be used. So the unexpected can happen. 2) Water Treks are covered in Aquatics Supervision: Paddle Sports. 3) In regards to First Aid training, I'm old school. I think First Aid MB should once again be required for First Class Scout. Back when I took FAMB, it focused on using your resources, including what you would find in the outdoors. Don't know about ARC, but AHA's first aid program consists of mostly watching videos, with limited hands on. So I think First Aid should be covered. 4) Emphasis should be on planning, planning, planning. One of the nice things about out current SM, he's been around so long, he;s been to every camp withing about a 7 or 8 hour drive. I think as much prep work needs to be done prior to an event as possible. 5) Know when to call of your trip and/or modify it. Yep I hate doing that, but I've done it once as the primary leader, and recommended it about a month ago when after doing skills training, realized none of the Scouts attending were ready for one planned trip, We changed it to a different river trip to accomodate the level of expereince.

Pee Wee Harris? All joking aside, I do not think anyone has made the impact that Green Bar Bill has made since 1980. Afterall, he came out of retirement to save the BSA. The closest I could get, and this may be because I'm biased towards them, but how about the guys who created the OA Trail Crew program at Philmont, which inspired the other HA bases to have OA programs.

Kudu.

Calico, The IH/ASM is relatively new to the CO. So he's keeping things as they are. He's still getting a feel for things. And since he is an Eagle with a son in the troop, he signed up to help when he can.

Yep, I'm an oversized kid, and sometimes do not maintain boundaries. I've been known to walk into patrol campsites when I smelled somethign good and ask, "What's for dinner?" LOL! But it has been known to freak people out. When I was doing training, the ASM was helping out on staff, but was on call that weekend. Chief had to give him permission to leave his jurisdiction (campsite was approximately 400 yards away from city limits), but he had to take his vehicle with him. Well he gets called out Friday nite, so he's not at camp. Saturday morning, he shows up in his police van, and some of the Scouters are a little freaked out. I'm just waiting for the SWAT team leader to go camping with us. It seems as if every time we go camping, he's on call and cannot make it.

Thanks folks. Yep, I want to stay out it. I think the SM, CC, and COR need to handle it. And I'll add the IH as well since he is also involved in the troop as an ASM and has seen the guy in action on the camp out the folded troop joined us on. Qwasze, My goal is to help the current SM until he steps down and my friend, aka the "Heir Apparent" takes over. Then I am going to support him because his job crazy. He's had to miss and/or leave early from meetings, leave in the middle of the night and come back very early the next morning on camp outs, and his job even tried to get him to come in when the troop was at summer camp! Thankfully the chief of police is a big supporter of Scouting, and understood why he couldn't come back to work during summer camp. However, he had to report in about 4 hours after returning from summer camp. As for the coffee pot, I will quote what is on the adult leader's coffee set up, "Adults Only: KEEP YOU PAWS OFF!"

We had a troop that folded in my neck of the woods. The SM of that troop was a member of my son's troop as a youth, and all but two of their Scouts transferred to us. He also is getting it worked out where the gear will get transferred to us as we need it. The troop doubled in size when joined, stressing our equipment supplies. Now we've added a 3d patrol, and will be getting a 4th (possibly a 5th patrol) in the next 6 months when the Webelos II ( or are they now called Arrow of Light Scouts) from the feeder pack Cross Over ( and it looks like my pack will be sending their Webelos to the troop too since our CO's troop is still doing NOTHING with the pack, including recruiting). So we are growing exponentially and can use all the trained adults we can get, especially since the SM's health is continuing to deteriorate. So this Scouter is not only helping recruit, but also get gear donated. Now here is the challenge. The SM of the folded troop was a hellraiser as a Scout in my son's troop and the COR was the COR back then as well. While the current SM has no problems with him being an ASM, the COR does. The COR remembers the problems he had, and specifically remembers one incident where the former scout punched a leader. So the COR refuses to sign off on the guy to be an ASM with the troop. He's even talked to the folded troop's IH as to the reason why the troop folded, and got essentially the same answer I gave. Any ideas on how to handle the situation? Forgot to add why I am getting involved in this mess. IH, when he found out I was stepping back from Cub Scouts to help the SM out, asked me to work with the SPL to mentor him and get the troop to where it should be, a role for the SM, not an ASM. Also the "heir apparent," who is CM of the pack, and others have made comments about challenges the pack is having and how he cannot switch over yet. So I got a suspicion I will be having a chat at the next committee meeting.

Once upon a time, Swimming MB was a prerequisite for Lifesaving MB. That changed in 2001 when I think a lot of laws were create that affected teenagers and lifeguarding certification programs. I know back when I got BSA Lifeguard, youth needed to have as prerequisites First Aid, Swimming, Lifesaving, Rowing, and Canoeing MBs. Adults needed to have the skills to complete those MBs. But again, a lot of laws got put in place that do not allow 18 and under to do waterfront lifeguarding. Hence the reason why BSA Lifeguard no longer covers waterfronts and boating rescues. You gotta take the Aquatics Supervision: Safe Swimming certification for waterfront skills and Aquatics Supervision: Paddle Sports for boating rescue . Now could an 11 year old take the class? Will they pass, possibly. I'm in a similar situation with a 12 year old wanting to take Lifesaving MB. He did first year camper last year and has Swimming MB. I advised him that it's a tough class, and that if he gets a partial, we'll find folks to work with him. As to size of victims, " Size matters not" until you try to get them on the deck. I had a 16.y.o. petite, 5'1" female who barely weighed 100 pounds soaking wet tow me all over the place when I was certifying her to be a lifeguard. Yes she failed the first time, but took advantage of of the opportunity to retake the class. Worked on her skills and technique, and that did the trick. Only problem she had with the retest was getting the person out. She was able to do it, but it wasn't pretty. Personally I say first year camper, but it's the SCOUT'S DECISION, (emphasis, not shouting) and no one elses,. not even the mom's.

Glacier, 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) As others have said, you better know your your folks going on any HA activity.You need to have team players with positive mental attitudes and necessary skills. I lazy, negative person can destroy an activity of a lifetime. Trust me on that. 3) If you have an multi-unit crew, make sure you have plenty of expedition practices.

Back in the day, I would be at the office about a week prior to day camp getting the paperwork and organizing dens and putting, DLs parent swho were "walkers" etc together. I admit the first year I did it, it was frustrating as I didn't leave any room on my paperwork for editing. parents would put down the wrong den they should be in etc. Got better the next 2 years I was PD. I would do the parents' orientation and last minute paperwork filing the day before daycamp started. And there was a little grumbling by some staff about how their Saturday was spent in training and setting up camp, and Sunday was finishing up and orientation. Monday started with normal program with the really last minute folks being dealt with. Usually 3-4 folks. Last year, the new CD decided to do away with the parents orientation the day before, and instead do all the paperwork the first day. we spent almost 2 hours that first morning doing campwide games as he got everything organized. And we still had changes to make to den assignments up to Wednesday. May not seem like a big deal, but a lot of the activities we do can be used for advancement, and it does make a difference. Plus some of us DLs and walkers were a wee bit frustrated since we were not told what to do and had to make it up as we went along. Thankfully 1) I will not be at day camp this year due to work and 2) There will be a parent's orienation the day before camp this year.

I know every district is different, and some delegate training courses to the Pack Trainer. But I know of packs with no trainers, and I've met trainers with lots of knowledge about program, but little in regards to the outdoors. I agree with Mash in that the outdoor trainers I know are a wealth of knowledge.

I do not know the entire story, but in MS three troops share a very nice campground and each has their own cabin for year round use. The do rent out the campground throughout the year. I never went to their summer camp, but had friends go and this is how it was described to me. They put on only 1 week of camp and other units are invited to attend. HOWEVER for every so many boys going, you have to provide x number of MBCs for the week. So essentially the Adutls going with their troops are the ones teaching the MBCs. Anyway, once they know which MBs the leaders can teach, they then come out with the class schedule. If memory serves, patrols are responsible for their own meals. And there is a limit to the number of folks that can attend.

Every troop does things a little differently, and every meeting will be different. But as others have said, the Scout should be having FUN! Some things about troop meetings 1) They should be run by the youth. 2) They should have some skills instruction or prep work for a trip being done. New guys may be learning the basics from an older scout. older scouts may be practicing or learning advance skills. 3) There should be some time for the patrol to get together and work on patrol items. 4) there should be some type of interpatrol gametime

best first aid course I ever had, and it was the reason why I didn't get First Class in a year, was at summer camp. The counselor was awesome, and my SM wanted me to take it with that MBC. One day of learning the skills, one day of applying the skill on a "Hike" that had stations at/ repeat. Final day was another hike.

i can relate to that. I thought we had a good time for day camp, and our attendance showed that the date was the right one. Then they moved it up about 3 weeks. Doable, but there were some adult staffing issues as our teachers who staffed couldn't staff the entire time due to all the snow days. They pushed it back a week, and now we have issues getting den chiefs since most of the camps are at summer camp.