WisconsinMomma

I understand. Everybody, or most people, seem to like the current system the way it is. And as I said, it runs fairly smooth, but not boy led. A has already placed the next Scoutmaster (husband and wife) after this one's (husband and wife) tenure is up. I do not know them well. A said two meetings ago he does not trust anyone, and that he doesn't want just anyone to be Treasurer. A's departure started as -- I am stepping down as cc but I will be in the Troop and retain my district position. One month later, the new announcement is that he is leaving as Treasurer when a new one is found and I am leaving my district position and I am retiring from Scouting. We just need a new Treasurer. I asked my husband if the new cc doesn't have a Treasurer in 3 months, would he volunteer? And he agreed. My husband is easygoing enough to allow himself to be trained by A in how A wants everything done. I do not think that A is messing with the finances in any sort of bad way and I am not familiar with the details of BSA financial policies. He is very particular about things being done to his standards and processes. I just started as secretary and changed the look and feel of the minutes. It didn't go over well, but so far, I have survived in the position! Whew! I do not know who our commissioner is, and as a newer parent, I am still in the process of forming relationships with the more established families. Making those relationships and building trust with them is most important. Since the retiring cc is on the way out, and since he makes it sound as if he's popular at the district too, I don't think it's necessary to escalate. I would love to recruit my Wood Badge ticket advisor's son to our troop, and I invited them to visit us... but it seems their school typically goes to a different troop. We need more leaders. I agree! Also I have thought of donating money to the Troop in an ongoing scholarship for one leader every year to go to Wood Badge. I need to discuss this with my husband and I also am not sure how the committee will react.

The person with the loud voice was the committee chair until last month, and our new cc is a very, very nice person that has a lot of respect for the retiring cc chair. Very agreeable. The new cc also served as Scoutmaster under the retiring cc. Because the Troop was strongly adult led for many years, they have a smooth program and I'm sure a lot of people who have been around for a while appreciate how well organized everything feels. Right now the retiring cc is serving as Treasurer until a new one is found. I've made some recommendations for parents of current Scouts who might step in. If a new Treasurer is not recruited soon, I'm going to ask my husband to volunteer (he's an ASM now) to move things along. Except my husband kind of likes a little bit of authoritarianism too. And when the future retiree speaks as if he's the expert on everything forever, some people find it hard to resist. LOL. But the group will change, everything changes, time is on my side of things. When he was cc, he called a very strange meeting with my husband and I to complain about our son with ADHD, and wanted us to helicopter our son more because he was uncomfortable with our kid being in Scouts. We resisted. When I gave him some articles about working with Scouts with ADHD, he pushed them back at me and said, I'm not interested. Not my problem. (Nevermind that the CC shouldn't be interacting with my son to begin with. He said that he was going to not interact with the boys anymore, but then he went back on that and personally worked with my son on some 2nd class requirements at camp so my son could advance. And while that may have been a kind gesture that my husband appreciates, the guy didn't stick to the plan he laid out with us.) Whenever I have connected with him with a question, comment or suggestion about Scouting, the responses have been very negative and he said to me something like -- I resent it when anyone tries to tell me about how Scouting works. (aka, he knows it all and takes no input) I am not a fan, but my husband is still respectful because this man's style is one where he demands and commands respect and authority. I have to be careful not to come across as too anti-retiring-cc, because he is popular. It's challenging. ETA: I think the route to progress and greater boy involvement is through the Scoutmaster. Everyone in the current leadership group is close with the retiring cc (or so it seems, everyone except me!), of course the cc placed the Scoutmaster and they are also neighbors. But our Scoutmaster is reasonable and I think everyone will be more receptive to suggestion after the former cc leaves for good.

I would love it if our Troop did likewise, but they are not there yet. Right now we have a committee Scouter who is on his way to retiring from Scouts, but who has had what feels like an iron grip on the Troop and Troop adults in the past for years. This person is for me, one of those rare,very difficult people and I'm trying to have some grace and patience with it. Change can't come fast enough, IMO. But there is also a culture among all the adults that needs to change and that takes time. The pluses for my sons are that the boys and adults in the troop are kind, it's our home troop, and the boys seem to enjoy it. I think that in time, I (or my husband) can make some suggestions through the Scoutmaster to give the boys more freedom and be a little more patrol led. However, it's going to take time. When I read here about patrols going on hikes by themselves, I ran it by a troop parent and my husband and it feels like we are a long way from that sort of thing. One step at a time.

In our troop, the adults currently decide where the boys will camp, and they go to the same place every year. I would like to suggest that the boys be given some choices and a voice in these decisions, but, as our family is newer to the troop and committee, we don't have a lot of influence in helping these ideas along just yet. Right now, I am strongly suggesting that the Troop survey families and consider moving the camping week one week later to help out baseball families who have to make a decision between championship games and Boy Scout camp, and but that has had some resistance from more traditionalist adults. It seems that some sort of input will be sought out, but I'm not sure how it's going to go down. Until recently the Troop camped at Lefeber in Wisconsin and now they go to Gardner Dam. ETA: I could suggest at our December meeting that the boys have a choice in camps, but I'm afraid it would not go over well. Stosh thanks for mentioning Camp Freeland Leslie, I will at least read up on it.

We might have to meditate on whether "Prancy Susie" is the right way to refer to a female Scout. How did this situation turn out in real life?

I agree that working with difficult people can make a person stronger. But, it's not always a blessing or educational. Let's be real that bullying, intimidation and other un-Scoutlike behaviors happen. I would never say that you should dismiss anyone, unless their behavior violates a code of conduct. That's not the point. If a person thinks that girls earning Eagle will make the honor worthless, or that a difficult female is worse than a difficult male, or that a man being treated badly is worse than a woman being treated badly, or that a man's work or education is more important or valuable than a woman's work or education, or a male's opinions and enjoyment are more important and valuable than a female's, etc. etc. etc.... then that person is going to have some issues to work through as the program changes. Now, seriously, most people in Scouting are absolutely wonderful, most people in day to day life are easy to work with or at least tolerable, but --- there are a very very few, rare people who are very very difficult and horrible to deal with. I have met very domineering, sexist men, and very manipulative women. Either gender can wreak havoc on the program. Girls are not going to be inherently worse than boys.

The requirement says "campout or other outdoor activity". See if a local Troop has an outing coming up that the Arrow of Light scout can attend during daytime hours. My Arrow of Light den did not camp with a Troop, we visited a troop during their fishing outing. Drove out in the morning, spent several hours, and left in the afternoon. This kind of outdoor activity may be more feasible for the scout in your den. As to the boy's future in Boy Scouts, that's a choice for him and his family, of course. Do not stress over it.

There are also men who feel superior to women and are demeaning to them. It goes both ways. When the girls come in, the male chauvinists can get out. Most men and most women are reasonable.

That's an excellent article, Mike!! Thanks for sharing it. Have you considered sending it in to the Scouting blog (Bryan on Scouting)? Maybe they would publish it?

<<<This is a forum: over thinking is what we do. Barry>>> LOL, Barry! That's a good one. Here's a quote from one of my favorite mentors: Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift and that's why it's called the present.

We can agree to disagree then. I believe that the Youth Protection guidelines will protect and prevent many problems. Of course there are errors and things that need to be addressed. People make mistakes and will need to be coached and corrected at times. I think that most Scouters are up to the challenges of a changing program and have the skills and courage to build a future that includes female Scouts. There's not a lot of reason to over-think or over-worry in advance. Lastly, if a man does not want to work with women and girls because he is afraid of false accusations, or for any other reason, then he will need to make a choice about his role in the organization if / when more women and girls become involved.

If you do not think that the young women in the future of Scouting will be both clean and trustworthy, then perhaps it is time to reconsider your involvement. In Scouting, youth uphold values to a higher standard than the general population.

The BSA has Youth Protection and two-deep leadership. This should help protect everyone regarding matters of privacy. Follow the guidelines and behave properly and any leader, male or female, should be fine. I don't think there's anything to worry about... unless a person is behaving badly. Then yes, that person should be very, very worried.

I'm not sure, there are only so many girls in elementary school, and right now, there's a lot of Girl scouts, and here's what it looks like, a family with a boy and a girl will have Dad in the Pack with his son and Mom in the Girl Scouts with the daughter, and that's the current pattern. I asked a mom of one of my former Cub Scouts about girls in Cubs, sort of hinting that she could come over to the Pack, but why would she? Only if she has enough frustration with GSUSA and only if her group wants to come with her. I can't see this very nice lady rocking the boat and switching teams. We'll have to see if an organic interest in girls in Cubs develops. I'm very curious to see how it unfolds, but because I have no daughters, we don't have any kind of choice to make in the matter.

I can only share what I observed in Wood Badge from our Quartermaster crew. Make sure you know your camp and where to get all of the resources, tools, whatever needed. Second, help make the work fun for everybody. Hope that helps!

I mentioned girls in Boy Cub Scouting to a few moms of daughters in Girl Scouts and received a very muted reaction. Right now I am not sure we will have any interest in girls' dens. But if there is interest, then we can start to figure it out.

My Wood Badge course director is female, and she is outstanding. She wears an order of the arrow pocket flap patch so I assume she's an OA member. She also has been awarded a silver beaver. So, there are definitely adult females in OA already. I don't know much about OA but women are a part of it. A Google search shows that female adult leaders were welcomed starting in 1988: https://history.oa-bsa.org/node/3403

Hey guys, whatcha doin?

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that my husband did anything wrong as a Webelos leader, and I don't think he did. He was a fine den leader and now serves as an ASM, showing up at pretty much everything so that the troop has adults available. I know his used the older book, and my den used the newer book, and I don't know exactly what they covered. Just because and adult is there, doesn't mean they're an interfering adult. Den leaders have responsibilities, and what I remember in the Webelos / Arrow of light curriculum was about getting started with learning the patrol method, not mastering it.

My husband, his Dad, was den leader. As we have had no prior experience with Scouting, we each did the basic requirements for what was in the Webelos handbook with our dens. I read your description of what you did with a Webelos/AOL den but that seems to be above and beyond the norm.

My Arrow of Light Scouts never learned to wash dishes with the 3 pot method. This was covered in our BALOO/OWL leader training, but it did not come up in any of the boys' advancement requirements. So, it didn't get done. They had set up tents once, but did not have a lot of experience with it, and they made foil pack dinners once. Just a heads up that the wash rinse sanitize is not anywhere in the Cubs program that I know of, and that most of the time, the newer Scouts will benefit from training and additional practice with these basic camping skills.

That's great, BackPack. Glad you were able to take on leadership positions early. Right now my oldest isn't interested in leadership positions, and he seems to be still working on fitting in the group and learning to follow. His first year in Scouting was a big transition, and this year he appears more settled in the group. He likes the Troop and is doing pretty well on the outings, and we're pleased with how he's doing with that. ETA: My middle son was an Asst. Patrol Leader right away, for two terms, but then his patrol was merged and he lost his job. It seems he would like to be in a patrol leadership position again and he has interest in that. Although, when his first opportunity to go to a patrol leader meeting came up he didn't want to go. He complained -- I don't want it -- give it to (other boy)! He worked it out. Each kid is a little different, sometimes they are very different!

Great feedback. Thanks everybody! Still listening if anyone else wants to chime in.

Perhaps passing rank is a stepping stone in the skill building journey. It doesn't end there. Personally, I'm not all that worried about a kid falling out of a boat on a fishing trip with an adult and wearing a PFD, but it depends on the fishing trip, the body of water, and the weather, right? You know what scares me? Falling through the ice. That's very dangerous, and to my knowledge, there's nothing in Scouting that really covers surviving that kind of accident. Scouting can't be everything. It's a foundation and a beginning. In my adult life, I don't go on the water much, not even once a year, only every couple years. I swam a lot as a kid but don't know my current swimming endurance level, to be honest. It's been years! Could I swim for my life? Falling out of a boat with a PFD? Absolutely, yes. Could I survive under all conditions? Of course not, we are all human. I will be pleased when my sons can pass their first class swim tests and then we'll see where their interests take them.

This depends on the kid, and you'll have to trust me that I know my own kid. He's been in Boy Scouts for 1.5 years, he's a 2nd class, and he has ADHD and is less mature than some other boys his age. He does not have it all together at this point, but we're seeing him make progress, little bit by little bit. He's definitely gotten more experience through going to many troop outings, and that's great.