WisconsinMomma

Did you get it worked out? I imagine that even if a pet store does not need volunteers,they are public and you can visit their reptile section anytime...

They look nice. This is small stuff.

I always feel bad for the kids. Sounds like the decision to remove the family is already made, but if you want to or can offer to have the boy continue if the mother agrees to limit her participation, then you may have a win. I wonder if the mom has some mental health concerns, but that is not anything that you can do anything about. If you cannot manage the mom situation then it sounds like you are set on the path to removal. If you can work with the mom to have her just focus on her son and getting him to and from the meetings, and attending his den meetings, then that would be a nice result. If you need something nice to say to mom, give her encouragement that her son is doing well and is liked in Scouts and that you hate to see him have to leave. But you need to also have some boundaries. As far as complaining, I once was dealing with a heckler in a job I was in. Someone told me that some people are just like that, that's what they do. The issue regarding communicating about the money is a concern that needs to be addressed. Best wishes with it. Good luck!

Good information. Our cub Pack is usually camping the day of Jamboree on the Air and I think the Troop camped the same weekend this year. If setting up a ham radio is easy, then it seems like it would be a cool thing to get into. I don't know any ham radio operators, but I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find someone.

Is it possible to involve parents and families on an occasional basis? I don't get the impression that parents and siblings want to do every activity and trip, but maybe show up once in a while. At Troop meetings, we have a group of moms and younger siblings who hang out down the hall while the boys meet in the gym. That's not interfering. My husband is an ASM and goes to summer camp and says with the same breath that he does nothing and that what he does is important. This year I almost went to camp to do nothing too but the schedule did not work out. I don't see the big problem if I go to a thing once in a while. In fact, I am thinking of going to and sitting in on a PLC meeting, just to be a fly on the wall. I am curious how much the Troop adults participate vs the boys and I'd like to see it in action.

OK, I need to clarify because Tampa Turtle mentioned quality control in regards to an upcoming AT hike and how to (discern? manage? control? decide?) who should go on an advanced hiking trip, and whether any parents or younger scouts should be allowed to join. I also made note of the phrase, "the best scouts" as in, the best scouts might be leaving (paraphrasing there). I don't know if that kind of thinking works IRL or not, but it sounds like the more skilled and older scouts are more... needed in the troop? Anyway, that's the context, TT, please chime in to clarify if needed, thanks!

Here's a follow up question --- what is quality control in Scouting supposed to look like? Is there supposed to be quality control? We have adult leader training and the handbooks and the publications -- is it supposed to go beyond that and if so, what does it mean and look like in action? (This may be straying off topic, or not!)

When people have more enthusiasm than experience, I can understand it's frustrating. I am high enthusiasm, low to moderate experience with the BSA. There's a lot to learn. That said, enthusiasm for the program and for the outdoors is a good thing if it can be guided appropriately. I don't doubt that the AT is difficult hiking. My Wood Badge staffer who was with our patrol wants to hike the AT but he came home from his trip with an achilles injury, and he's a very experience hiker. In your troop's parents shoes, I would be comfortable with an explanation that training and conditioning is essential for an AT hike and that the hike difficulty is more for the older boys, as long as it doesn't come across as a "you suck" or "you don't know jack" or "this is ridiculous, how dare you even ask" message. Positive attitude is everything. If the younger boys want to build up their hiking exposure, miles and experience then local hikes would be wonderful and inviting interested parents along is agreeable, I think. I can see the point of view and benefit of getting more people outdoors, but it doesn't have to be crashing the big trip. Your Scoutmaster has a lot to consider, best wishes. I hope it turns out well for the Scouts.

Here's another idea, just make some shorter hikes that are prerequistes to the big hike for new hikers, so -- in order to sign up for the AT, parents and Scouts at whatever age or level need to complete the following pre-AT hike events, at whatever training mileages are appropriate for beginners. The hiking merit badge has hike length intervals that might be perfect for the AT pre-training. I think you can work it out -- don't lose your positive attitude! ETA: As for differences between moms and dads, of course there are differences. It seems my husband goes along with and accepts -- "this is the way we do it" at face value, whereas I do not. I like to ask -- "why do you do it this way?" I like to know more about why things are the way they are. This has led to some disagreements in my home because my husband is frustrated that I want to know more. We work it out though, but he is appreciating that I don't want to feel like an outsider to my sons' BSA experience and I am learning to trust that the Troop runs OK and I don't need to over-worry it.

Here's while I'll pitch in with individual perspective. 1) You have older boys who want to go on a big AT hike. Cool! 2) You have parents of younger boys who want to go on an easier AT hike. Cool! This doesn't sound too difficult. The older scouts can plan their big hike and with the Scoutmaster, decide their expectations for the trip. If the end up saying something like, we're doing XXX miles and this hike is designed for very experienced hikers, then that would be a great way to position the event. For the parents of younger scouts who want to do an easier AT hike at a later time, I think that's a great idea. If the younger scouts want to go on an "intro to hiking" hike and agree with the general idea, great! Perhaps there are some opportunities for the older scouts to mentor the younger scouts and the whole troop can be excited about their respective trips. Maybe some of the older scouts will want to serve as leaders on the younger scouts trip. So what's the big problem? If the Scoutmaster needs to set boundaries and say -- this advanced hike is not appropriate for Tenderfoot Joe and his parents, or Second Class Bob and his parents, then that's totally acceptable and reasonable, isn't it? Here's the thing. A Scout is part of a family and the Troop should try to maintain a positive relationship with parents. Having parents along should be generally OK and if they need coaching to let the boys be responsible, then that's a process that needs to be worked through. It takes time for people to get into the groove of how Boy Scouts works and that learning curve is part of the game. I was reading someone's comments on another site yesterday and the person seeks to be a dog walker and start a dog walking business. She loves dogs. But, dog walking is only half about the dogs -- it's the humans who need to be pleased. Boy Scouting is not that different, a Troop needs to work with the boys but also maintain good relationships with the families, and that will require patience, understanding and some degree of customer service skills.

Oh, I agree the list is very limiting, but also, I think generally the spirit of these requirements is that Scouts build a variety of experiences. Someone should request / recommend an update of this badge, but that doesn't help you right now, Hawkin. Do you have any offbeat places in your home that need curtains, like maybe a garage window or a basement window? Think about every room in your house. Otherwise, I think it's totally fair to ask your counselor if you can repeat and see what s/he says. Good luck!

I think the world is a better place because of Scouting, and the world would be noticeably worse off without it.

The chili supper sounds like a lot of fun!

I have my sons' backs, of course. Right now there are no girls in their program. We will see how it goes, but if girls join the program we'll take it one day at a time. FWIW, my oldest loves girls and his friends are girls more than boys. He's preferred the company of girls since kindergarten. I wonder -- for his First Class requirement -- could he invite a girl to a meeting? But no, it's not the right thing to do yet. Both my boys have worked with female merit badge counselors and they were both great. Their camping experiences are right now, all with guys, so I'm not going to cross the bridge about worrying about girls until they start showing up. What my boys will get out of the program is not about gender.

BackPack, I don't remember where you are in your Scouting experience, are you over 18 and done, or still in the BSA youth program? Did you have any female merit badge counselors? Just curious about how it worked out for you. Of course there are some things that are very personal and private and there are some topics that I would share with only a select few, and I may prefer a same-gender person to talk with. That's normal. But, say the Personal Fitness merit badge -- or any merit badge -- could be counseled by a male or female. For example, at the fitness center where I work, there are female personal trainers that instruct mixed-gender classes, and they get male and female customers. An Eagle coach could be male or female as well. There is not a lot of content that requires a male role model.

Having a different perspective is not disrespectful. I am a mother of three boys who will be in the program over next 10 years and I care about them very much. I disagree with the assumption that adding females makes the program mediocre. I am making the case for girls in Scouting (I have neutral feelings toward it and will go with the changes as they happen). You are entitled to sharing your point of view, but not entitled to shutting down mine. As for working with youth, I have some experience too! We all have different things to bring to the table.

Here's a link to an interesting article about B-P: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jul/30/bensummerskill.theobserver 'We scrambled down the bank where we were sitting... and he came towards us demanding: 'What the dickens are you doing here?' 'Our `patrol leader' said: 'We want to do the same thing as the boys. We want to be girl scouts.' Baden-Powell said: 'That's impossible, this is only for the boys.' 'We thought he was going to send us away but in the end he said: 'I'll think about it.' We went into the arena when it began to rain and then joined the march-past. We were put at the back with some other girls. 'We were laughed at, we were whistled at, there were catcalls, but we didn't mind. We were there and we were part of the show and when the speeches were over and the telegram from the King was read we raised our hats and our poles and cheered the King and we did the same and cheered Baden-Powell.'

How do you cover chartering? Is that extra? What kind of fundraisers does your Troop do?

FWIW, my oldest studied Martin Luther King's, I have a Dream speech for Citizenship in the Nation. I believe MLK is mentioned in the booklet.

And here are the Aims and Methods -- while they refer to boys, it's not particularly male-centric, and God is only mentioned once: Aims of Scouting -- character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness Methods of Scouting The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each. IdealsThe ideals of Boy Scouting are spelled out in the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout motto, and the Scout slogan. The Boy Scout measures himself against these ideals and continually tries to improve. The goals are high, and, as he reaches for them, he has some control over what and who he becomes. PatrolsThe patrol method gives Boy Scouts an experience in group living and participating citizenship. It places responsibility on young shoulders and teaches boys how to accept it. The patrol method allows Scouts to interact in small groups where they can easily relate to each other. These small groups determine troop activities through their elected representatives. Outdoor ProgramsBoy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. It is here that the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for God's handiwork and humankind's place in it. The outdoors is the laboratory for Boy Scouts to learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources. AdvancementBoy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others. Association with AdultsBoys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of their troops. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives. Personal GrowthAs Boy Scouts plan their activities and progress toward their goals, they experience personal growth. The Good Turn concept is a major part of the personal growth method of Boy Scouting. Boys grow as they participate in community service projects and do Good Turns for others. Probably no device is so successful in developing a basis for personal growth as the daily Good Turn. The religious emblems program also is a large part of the personal growth method. Frequent personal conferences with his Scoutmaster help each Boy Scout to determine his growth toward Scouting's aims. Leadership DevelopmentThe Boy Scout program encourages boys to learn and practice leadership skills. Every Boy Scout has the opportunity to participate in both shared and total leadership situations. Understanding the concepts of leadership helps a boy accept the leadership role of others and guides him toward the citizenship aim of Scouting. UniformThe uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. Boy Scouting is an action program, and wearing the uniform is an action that shows each Boy Scout's commitment to the aims and purposes of Scouting. The uniform gives the Boy Scout identity in a world brotherhood of youth who believe in the same ideals. The uniform is practical attire for Boy Scout activities and provides a way for Boy Scouts to wear the badges that show what they have accomplished.

Hi BackPack, OK, I am very curious about the questions you have that are so male oriented and where an answer from a woman would be less useful. Care to share any examples? I once did some research with alumni of a boys' high school and one of the most interesting comments was from a man who said that after he graduated, he didn't believe women were as intelligent as men, and it took him a while to overcome that bias. Interesting, huh? Here is the mission of the BSA, and I think it's so interesting that it has no reference to males: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. I saw this at Wood Badge first weekend, and I realized right then -- there will be girls. At our second weekend when we had a workshop on change, someone asked, what will change about the BSA and I said, "girls", and then I scanned the room to see if anyone looked angry (hard to tell). But you can see from the mission, it is not exclusive. It says nothing about male bonding or a safe haven from women and girls or anything of the sort. And, as for women's eligibility to be leaders, it's a done deal! I hope that in your life you will respect and also be open to input from women that you meet and work with. Be open to learning from females, they can be insightful, too. Here's the thing about women leaders -- it's not like women leaders have taken over the program since 1988. Likewise, I find it unlikely that girls will dominate Scouting in the US any time soon. I am concerned that a requirement for believing in God will be the next to go. It is very likely to happen. I have mixed feelings personally. I think that people need to respect that there is something in life bigger than themselves, so they don't become self-centered. At the same time, if the BSA wants to be inclusive, it's the obvious next step.

Here is another idea if you have a pet shop in your town. Ask the pet shop if they would allow the Scout to volunteer at the store and help care for one or more of their animals. A local small pet shop near us takes kids 12 and up as volunteer workers and they can help with the animals and get some light work experience.

Our Scout Shop staff is all for selling multiple uniforms! LOL. I am trying to be thrifty. I have one shirt for Cubs, and no shirt yet for Boy Scouts, although I could put together a shirt with a Troop Committee patch. Two uniforms would be plenty!

Thanks for the great feedback. A no-show would be very annoying if that kind of thing happened. I want to encourage Scouters to go to Wood Badge, and maybe more personal encouragement and support would be a better way to do it.

Ben Hunt was local to my area, and in the historical cabin that honors him (that he built) there is a canoe made from I think, old shipping crates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Ben_Hunt Here's an article he wrote for Boy's Life about it: https://books.google.com/books?id=gdvlr4TKT4cC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=ben+hunt+canoe&source=bl&ots=86njDgJYvX&sig=yS0gBE8edjpfFTpJ8z2uqqCgglM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZ-5-pgN_XAhXnllQKHeA9BtAQ6AEIRTAI#v=onepage&q=ben%20hunt%20canoe&f=false