WisconsinMomma

Shoot, I was with you until the last line. I have three sons in Scouting right now and four years with the program. I have a lot of time, money and effort in Scouting and I like to be treated with respect too.

I think you know what I meant -- Scouts are at camp the parents go out on a date while their kids are away at camp.

Sounds like you have it all figured out then.

I was talking to Barry. He's mentioned scout babies a couple of times (I have assumed it's babies of adult scouters.) If this is used as a reason why there should not be girls (or women) in Scouting, it could be perceived as the women being the problem. Just as if there are pretty girls in Scouting, then the boys will look at the pretty girls. That's life. It's not the girls' fault, and pretty girls will get noticed no matter what they are wearing. Do we leave out the girls because they are pretty? It's this line of reasoning that leads some societies to place all kinds of restrictions on women.

I think sometimes stories get told over and over. Sure, babies are made all over the place. That is life. Just don't blame the girls and women only because it takes two to tango. ETA: A joke: No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. Henry KissingerRead more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/henry_kissinger_105144

Everybody has to start somewhere!

Here's the thing, I feel that the best thing for me to do is to worry about my kids and our family's Scouting experience, and to care about our Troop and Pack's sustainability, etc. I have no control over troops who are bending the rules or making up their own stuff, and it doesn't really affect me. A Scout who is given an Eagle without doing things properly does not hurt my kids experience at all. My kids work will benefit them, and it's who they become as people, not the plaque on the wall. We agree on that! If this is happening in my Troop, then it's my concern, otherwise it's not my clowns or circus. I've got my own clowns!

That's some parents, but not all of them. And if Scout kids are at camp and they go on a date, it's not that bad. You guys say you don't want adults around, except when you do! Many parents are very supportive of their kids' activities.

I haven't told my boys about girls in Scouting yet, I'm going to wait until it actually starts to happen. But I'll tell you about some girls in the neighborhood. My middle son's best friend, I'll call her Anna. Her dad takes her fishing. She likes archery. Her mom and dad are great people. If you get Anna in the troop you'll get her mom or dad too. The girls down the street, two little girls and they are girly so they may not be interested in Scouts, but let's say they are interested in earning Eagle as an accomplishment. Their dad is a retired fire chief, mom is a nurse and on the PTO. These parents will be there for their girls. You will get new leaders in Scouting along with the girls, many girls have very supportive parents who will come along for the ride. ETA: Another family in my area -- two older brothers are Scouts. Younger sister will be Scout age soon. Dad is already an ASM. If she wants to be a Boy Scout, then her family is already active in the Troop. If her friends want to join the troop, her family knows all their parents and can help recruit additional volunteers.

We've got a fictional female scout and people are already arguing that a fictional scout hasn't earned Eagle properly. Can we wait for real life scenarios? In my family's current experience, completing the requirements is taking time. While there are merit badges at summer camp (campers typically earn 3 over the course of the week if they do all their prep at home beforehand) , and there are short merit badge clinics (also if you prep at home first), it takes more than a couple hours to earn a badge, and the Eagle required badges requirements are not one day deals. In our local troop, most Eagle scouts are finishing right up against their 18th birthday. You may call me a helicopter parent, but it's our expectation that our kids spread out the work. My 13 year old (2nd class) has completed First Aid (at a council sponsored class), Environmental Science (at a two day event at a nature center, with lots of writing homework) and Citizenship in the Nation (it took weeks after our family trip to DC). He has been logging chores for the last 3 months for Family Life. My 11 year old (Tenderfoot) has completed Citizenship in the Nation and First Aid --- and he *just* completed the requirements for his blue? swimmer check off. Woo! Both boys are working one on one with a swim instructor to help them work on their swimming. Ideally, they will work with their swim instructor on Swimming and Lifesaving (their swim teacher is a MBC.) It's a lot of work. Rushing to Eagle does not seem like an option for our family. There's just no way the boys could do it,

OK, Stosh says the boys will lose, Flagg says the girls will lose, we'll have to see what actually happens. Yes, there will need to be more leaders. That means welcoming to the new people who show up to help out. If patrols are youth run, if I understand Stosh correctly, the adults aren't all that important! The BSA has a wealth of training materials and there's always Youtube for learning to do lashings and practically any other Scout skill. We'll have to see how it goes.

You're not a chauvinist. It's the comments along the lines of -- look at all the fat moms who can't go on hikes, and if a girl gets an Eagle, then the boys' Eagles are worthless, and negative comments about divorced mothers that are signals of attitude problems. People can be legitimately upset at national for changing the program without being sexist. But there are many men who look down on women and girls overall and that's a problem. They're going to have problems.

One thing I am seeing in Scouts and hockey is the involvement of grandparents with kids who have divorced moms and dads. This seems to be wonderful for the kid to have an extra adult or two who can help take them to activities and serve as role models. Grandparents are great.

I'll just share an experience from my 9 year old, new to hockey son yesterday at his first tournament. They played the first game, he hung around in the skating center with his friends, they played in the arcade. He comes up to me all pouty and says, I want to go home, I don't want to play another game. He asks to buy a sucker from the sucker pull fundraiser, and then... he's happy again. He's doing something hard, a hockey tournament, with lots of boring downtime. This morning we are up early to go for the third game. It's hard, it's a lot of work. Some parts are very fun and some parts are a slog and he's free to express himself when he's feeling down about it.

He pulled that comment in from the Girls in Scouting thread. And I stick by it: people who feel that girls are less than should not work with girls when they join the program. And I was speaking generally, not talking about anyone in particular.

I would probably communicate to the Pack families that space is limited and that the first priority goes to 1 Scout + 1 Parent/Guardian so that as many scouts can come on the trip as possible. If you have little space it does not make sense to bring siblings. Then, first come, first serve, but of course make sure your den leaders get space! Pay to hold your spot and keep a wait list. Have a fantastic time.

Hi SummerFun, so sorry for what you are experiencing. It sounds like the organization is set in their ways and it is doubtful that you will have much influence on your sons' troop --- but, thankfully you have influence in your family. Can you help your sons do things the right way and learn the merit badge material the way it should be? Is lone scouting an option? If advancement is messed up where you are, then perhaps the boys can continue their work independently of whatever the troop pushes on them. You should be able to reach out to real merit badge counselors -- does your council have a list of the right people for the right badges? Do the best you can with what you have to work with and take care of your boys and if possible, some of their friends will be interested too. Good luck!

Play nice. You don't need to take down people who disagree with you. Stick to the ideas and don't make it personal.

My objection is to this hanging Bobcats upside down for pinning their patch nonsense. I understand it was done long ago, but I'm glad it's gone. It was interesting that someone mentioned it, I had never heard of it before. Given that the BSA has discouraged the practice and it hasn't been around for more than 20 years, it's not really a problem. As far as being a new person to Scouting, yes, it's not the 1990's anymore. That's where I was going with the touching -- the holding kids upside down -- that's no good. Don't approve, BSA got it right.

Focus on your den. I hope you have a good den leader. Enjoy that group and just leave the Pack alone.

First, here is a discussion about it --- very old, from 1997 -- that covers a lot of the topic: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.scouting.usa/DXEr2AotQiw Second, look at the news right now and inappropriate touching. Society has changed since the 1950's. There is to reason to physically manhandle a kid at a Pack meeting and it's wrong. Not everything about the good old days is good.

How about those who prefer leaders keep their hands off the kids? Given the number of kids with sensory issues, and the number of kids who aren't participating with two parents, etc. I don't see any value in the custom.

Stosh, what decade was that? I found an article on Bobwhite Blather: https://bobwhiteblather.com/stop-flipping-them/ I'm glad that packs aren't doing it anymore.

Holding a scout upside down during an awards ceremony????

There are plenty of opportunities in life to learn and practice conflict resolution. It's not like this was the only moment in time when they'll ever have the chance.