DuctTape

Agree - its a step in the right direction, and i appreciate your input on an important topic affecting personal growth, adult association, advancement, and character development. I also recognize that this type of discussion is part of T-2-1 requirements and is typically handled as the last step of advancement, and done during the start of the scoutmaster conference. (i.e. Tenderfoot #11 -- Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Discuss four specific examples of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life.) When do we (older scouts, adults, handbook, etc.) present the scout with the information needed to process, understand and master a requirement like Tenderfoot #11? I suspect that some troops could easily fall into a trap of simply expecting them to figure it out for themselves. The trap is that we wouldn't expect them to figure out plant identification on their own, or how to dress a wound on their own. Further, there's more about those topics in the current handbook than on the oath and law. Hmmm. I've seen this happen early in my 'adult" participation in the program -- while serving on a BOR, a boy is asked about meaning of oath and law, shrugs his shoulders and stares at his shoes, mutters, 'ummm, I guess the oath is something we say to remember to be good scouts" and gets a hearty congratulation from the BOR leader. I attempt to ask a follow up questions, and get shut down by the BOR organizer. The boy was passed and I had a long discussion afterwards with the BOR team. Eventually, we got better, but they were afraid to send boys back from a BOR over "idealist" issues when they were progressing in knots and fires. I ended up having to take these concerns to the direct contact leaders as a concerned father. It can be an uphill battle when it ought to be seamlessly included in the presentation of the program. That's why I'm searching for ideas on how to better incorporate character development. I think you touched on the solution earlier. The SM minute and the boys leading by example. Both are a result of the SM. First the SM minute should be a yarn about how a boy demonstrated a scout's character. No discussion, just a story with an ending like "A Scout is Trustworthy". Kind of like Aesop's fables. The boy led example is also a result of SM actions through PL training. The SM trains the PL's by leading by example. The PLC meetings/outings should model how the PL can make more explicit the living the scout oath and law. An easy way is to expect a reflection minute at the end of every meeting/outing for the PL to explicitly acknowledge a time when one of his members acted scoutlike. Ex: Tommy demonstrated Cheerful when he was on KP duty and he not only did the job but did so without complaining and with a smile on his face. He could also encourage the other patrol members to acknowledge their peers at this time. When patrols report at flag, they could also include one "living the scout oath" acknowledgement.

Outings are not exclusively camping. If possible I would like to see meetings be held out of doors too. Here in NY, the climate isn't really conducive for it. I don't think a patrol that likes to camp should necessarily exclude those who do not. If the boys like to hang with others who don't camp when at meetings, that is fine. The patrol is doing scouting things together, just not ALL things. I am assuming they are doing scouting things at the meetings. Perhaps the non-campers will eventually want to attend a campout if there buds are going. This increases in likelihood as the patrols do other outings together besides just camping.

Used a timber hitch last year, interestingly for its designed purpose. We needed to move some logs for a lean-to we were fixing and the timber hitch was the perfect choice to tie on to the human mule powered line. I have never used the sheepshank. Even its designed purpose is "dumb" IMO.

I hate the workbook. I hate the standardization. Too many professional BS'ers attempting to improve something which needed no improvement. No coaches should be needed to hold the scouts hand. There should be no hoops to jump through, no standard forms to fill out for the project. The only form that should exist is one filled out and signed by the SM when the Scout has completed all requirements and needs his Eagle BOR. /rant

I would have no problem giving my email address out to anyone. I already get spam but my hotmail filter gets rid of most of it before I even see it. Also, email addresses listed on a Scout website could easily be disguised to avoid spammers as in bobwhite at yahoo dot com. Also, I am aware that there is not a requirement for boys to be able to recite verbatim his merit badge material a year or anytime after receiving the merit badge. I only mentioned it because I believe that many boys cannot tell much of anything about what they quickly crammed into their brain just a few weeks or months later after his merit badge class. I think it is up to the boy and his parents to make sure he LEARNS the material and does not temporarily memorize it. I guess I am suggesting that boys self police themselves on this. The last thing you want is a surgeon operating on your brain who temporarily memorized his med school curriculum, amen? You want him to know it well enough to teach it. Many merit badges worn by these boys are worthless to the boy. When an Eagle Scout cannot even tell my son how to tie a rope around a tripod group of sticks for the simple camp gadget, something is really wrong. Or the knots/lashings can be part of the program the older scouts deliver to the younger scouts on a regular basis. Or each scout could have a scout staff as a hiking stick and the patrol would have quite a few when at camp. Or the patrols could start to venture away from the picnic area campgrounds and explore other areas to camp like in the woods where plenty of sticks can be found. There are many ways to allow for the practice and they involve the scouts doing scouting things and not checking off boxes.

A patrol is a gang of boys who do scouting things together. Too often we focus on numbers or ages instead of who the boys want to be with and what they want to do. If a troop has many instances of little participation, perhaps it is the activities being planned that is the problem? I have no problem with a patrol in which 2 boys show up for the campout. However, I would start with encouraging the patrols to plan activities, camping trips etc... that they want to do instead of what the adults have planned as a troop. I am not suggesting that ones troop isn't boy led, but it may not be patrol based if all the activities are done at the troop level.

I just received a survey for the BSA regarding district/council and their responsiveness, leadership, etc... in providing the scouting experience. I commented the focus on raising money (at National, council and district levels) instead of focusing on the scouting program was a big problem.

As a scouter who spends about 20% of the year camping in the back woods, tying knots is a skill which I use almost as much as fire-building. A scout who cannot tie a small variety of knots isn't spending much time in the woods being a scout. I have seen a lot of troops who never leave the park-n-tent campsites and the scouts never get to fully appreciate the wild. They don't "scout" the unknown woods and explore using all the skills they have "learned". When the requirements are just a list, and ranks are a completion of lists they cease to be descriptors of competence. A true first class scout should be able to lead his patrol into the woods navigating by map and compass, selecting a proper site, setting up camp and cooking meals planned and prepared. These are the skills supposedly demonstrated on the way to First Class. One of the best lines I have ever read in the BSA Handbook for Boys (1911 edition) regarding the aim of scouting, penned by John Alexander: "All that is needed is the out-of-doors, a group of boys, and a competent leader." That leader is not us, it is a First Class Scout.

I still haven't figured out how 15 year olds can BE merit badge counselors at camp. Is there some small print codicil which permits other scouts to be merit badge counselors at summer camps?

I have a copy of the 1911 Handbook (an original, not a reprint). Pg 10 lists the twelve points as an "abbreviated form of the Scout Law". It is this form to which the scouts "are to commit to memory". Pg 15 Provides the laws "which relate to the BSA, are the latest and most up to date". 11. A scout is clean. He keeps clean in body and thought, stands for clean speech, clean sport, clean habits, and travels with a clean crowd.

There is a difference between being an Eagle Scout and wearing a patch. There are Eagle Scouts who never got the patch, and patch wearers who aren't Eagle Scouts.

No direction will yield chaos. Instead, provide direction but no organization or meddling. Get them started on something, but don't interfere unless it is matter of safety. Example, bring the cubs to a creek show them how to look for crayfish and let them have fun. A campout isn't a time to "do requirements". Instead, do fun stuff and later, (car ride home) or next den meeting when discussing the fun bring up the fact requirements were met and have the cubs look at other badges and think of fun things they can do which will meet those requirements for the next campout. Scouting should be fun, and requirements are met by having fun. Once we sit them down and have them open a book, they aren't scouting, they are in school again.

I never understood the need for the BSA to have a declaration of religious principles. I mean, we don't have a declaration of patriotic principles which would refer to the same line in the Oath. Or a declaration of physical fitness. Do we kick out scouts or scouters for being obese or those who maintain dual citizenship or openly state their conscientious objection to govt actions and refuse to participate? Shouldn't the only principles by which a scout declares be the oath and law themselves (perhaps also the Slogan)? Why have a special declaration highlighting religion above all other aspects of the oath and law?

I have noticed that many "trained" scouters, both district level and troop level apparently do not use that training assuming it was ever acquired. I have been to quite a few trainings and there is little if any assessment of whether the attendees truly understood or are able to apply their training. The lack of real training becomes evident when the scouter in practice does or promotes the complete opposite of what they supposedly were trained to do. Some try, as evidenced by the words they use, but the deeds speak louder.

I have no personal experience with it. The Sawyer Squeeze has become very popular among the backpacking crowd lately due to its low weight and effectiveness. Inline filters have been popular for quite some time, and the DIY crowd loves them as they can be used within any system.

Who is this RichardB, and why does he get to decide? If it was him that changed the GTSS, he should be fired.

The Seychelle uses Iodine to kill the virii and bacteria. Some have a bad reaction to iodine, especially those with thyroid issues so this is something to be aware of. I believe pregaant women are advised to stay away from it. I do not intend to knock the efficacy of the filter and chemical treatment as the tests do show it to be rather effective. However I am dismayed by the marketing ploy in the statement "up to 99.9%", this means LESS THAN not in excess. If one looks at the testing of the seychelle products it can be seen that some of the contaminants are removed at significantly less percentage than 99. This doesn't eliminate the effectiveness, but we should be aware of what the true effectiveness is and not be mislead by the manufacturer's misleading statement.

Aye, there's the rub. There are critters that will pass through a 2 micron pore that you absolutely do NOT want in your body. Crypto, etc. is way smaller and .3 micron, while possibly needing greater than gravity pressure to use is closer to "safe". With most filters, pre-filtering to get the logs and boulders out of the untreated water really increases the time between filter cleaning or replacing. "Pre-filtering" can be a bandanna, coffee filter, or even just letting the logs and boulders settle out in a pot for 15-20 minutes before filtering. The fastest my filter (MSR) ever got clogged was when one of my Scouts did an "experiment" to find out how efficient it was. He deliberately stirred up the pool of water we were using. Sure enough, within 1-2 quarts of water (waaaaaay less than we needed that hot and humid afternoon) it clogged and needed cleaning. I made him take it down and do the cleaning. IIRC crypto cysts are about 5 microns, so a 2 micron filter should suffice for them. Giardia cysts are even larger.

It did upset me when I saw the new GTSS which required the adults for camping, but I never interpreted it to mean no patrol camping. The patrol (unfortunately) needed two adults, but they would be needed anyways to drive. Does the requirement also mean they transportation providers must hover over the boys, or can they let them be? How close must they remain? The GTSS is vague on this. Is it wrong to allow the boys as a patrol to camp a mile away from the adults if the SM deems the PL qualified to lead?

No patrol camping? What?

Quick answer, yes. The pump provides significantly more pressure than the gravity feed. Pre-filtering does help especially with sediment laden water. The pre-filter will help prolong the life of the main filter but will not make it filter faster. In fact, it will likely slow it down. One reason the seychelle appears to work better is the pore size of the filter. The Seychelle is a 2-micron filter while the base camp is a 0.3 micron filter. The smaller pore size requires more pressure and will also clog at a faster rate.

LOL. I must have internalized so many of the discussions from the forum. Answer is the same, traditional silver/gray, but will use colors for specific tasks like marking my bear canister with neon yellow.

Thanks. I will jump in.

Twins from the Northeast, or did I miss something?

As I am not quite sure what characteristics would categorize me, I hesitate to label myself. I *think* I am a traditional scouter.