Twocubdad

It's not like they're carrying the nuclear football.... How long does it take to get a new one? Is it a big deal who runs the committee meetings for a coule months?

For exactly the problems you describe, fully mixing ages top to bottom doesn't work any better than aged-base patrols. Integrating patrols by age requires that all your older scouts are good at and ejoy working with younger kid. Clearly, that's not going to be the case. We shouldn't expect that every 17-y.o. is comfortable working with 10- and 11-y.o.s any more than we expect that of every adult. I've always contended the way to keep boys interested in Scouting is to be with their friends. Splitting up friends and putting them in different patrols just for the sake of segregation takes away one of your best motivations for keeping guys involved. Best practice is grouping patrols in about three or so groups -- younger, middle-aged and older scouts. Target having the PLs in the older end of the range. This keeps friends together and better accommodates the program interests, maturity levels and social needs of the scouts. To different degrees we've always let the boys have input into the composition of patrols. Recently we went all in. The Scouts who wanted to serve as patrol leader stepped up FIRST, then went out and recruited their patrols around them. So far, it's working out very well. Four of the six patrols are functioning very well. The fifth is composed of all first and second year Scouts with a second-year PL. That patrol would work better with a couple third year guys, with one as PL. The sixth patrol is the Island of Misfit Toys. They even joked about calling the patrol the "Charlie-in-the-Box" patrol. (At least they have a sense of humor.) I suppose with a troop of our size, that's always going to be the case.

This is great news! At last we know who is the biggest jackass in the State of North Carolina -- Administrative Law Judge Fred Morrison Jr.

Districts are administrative divisions of the Council. The council can organize them pretty much as it sees fit. We used to have non-geographic districts which covered the entire council for programs like ScoutReach and Exploring which overlaid the traditional, geographic districts. Since the council can do as it pleases, yes, they could move a unit from one district to another. But I'd guess it would require a dang good reason. I doubt very seriously "They have a better program" or "Our DE is a jerk" will cut it.

This is a document we give to the Webelos 2s before taking them camping in the fall. This applies to our area of the southern mountains. It gets cold here but not Beavahland insanely cold. Camp Comfortably Hints for Cub Scouts and Webelos from the Boy Scouts Troop Being comfortable on a campout is more about staying dry than staying warm. If you are cold, getting warm isnt too difficult. But if you are cold and wet, it can be much more difficult to get warm. Being wet even just the dampness from perspiration can turn a cold night into a life-threatening situation if you arent prepared. Camping in the spring and autumn can be tricky because the days can be warm but the early morning hours surprisingly cool. This is especially true in the foothills and mountains where we are located. Here are some tips for staying warm and dry while outdoors:  Especially in the fall and spring dress in multiple layers of light-weight clothes. As it warms up in the morning you can take off layers to stay cool. In the evening, you can add the layers back on to keep warm.  If you are going to be active and sweaty, wear a layer of synthetic clothing against your skin. UnderArmour is one brand name but there many others. Polypropolyene or silk is good because they wick perspiration and moisture away from your skin and keep you warm even if they are damp. Avoid cotton as it holds moisture and make you feel cold.  Its easier to stay warm than to get warm. On a clear autumn day, temperatures drop considerably when the sun goes down. Take time in late afternoon to find your cap and jacket. This is also a good time to find you flashlight and arrange your gear so you can find it after dark.  If it is warm out, and especially if you are hot and sweaty, take a few minutes to cool down before getting in the sleeping bag. Towel off. Experienced campers know that a good shower before hitting the rack will make you sleep much better.  Sleep in dry clothes. Dont sleep in the clothes youve been wearing all day. Before going to bed change into pajamas or the clean underwear and socks you have for the next day.  Know the temperature rating of your sleeping bag and understand what it means. A bag rated at 40 degrees will feel cold if the temperature gets into the 40s.  You can boost the warmth of you sleeping bag by adding extra blankets. Acrylic stadium blankets are inexpensive and lightweight. If you only have one blanket, put it under your bag. You loose more heat through the ground than you do through the air.  For the same reason use a good sleeping pad. Not only will they make the ground more comfortable to sleep on, but will keep you warm. Self-inflating pads like ThermaRest are great but rather expensive. Closed cell foam pads are good and under $15. Avoid open cell foam pads as they hold water. Also avoid thick home-style air mattresses. They are so thick that the air in them stays cold and wont keep you warm.  If your feet are cold put on a hat is an old expression but is true. You loose most of your body heat through your head. Sleeping with a knit cap is will help keep you warm.  Dont over do it. A sleeping bag thats too warm will cause you to sweat which will make you feel even colder. This applies to sleeping in extra clothes, too.  Your tent keeps you dry. Your sleeping bag keeps you warm. Sealing up you tent wont make you warmer. In fact, you should always sleep with the vents on your tent partially open to let the moisture from your breath escape. If the moisture stays in the tent, it will condense on you and make you cold.  For the same reason, resist the temptation to snuggle down with your face in your sleeping bag. The moisture in your breath will condense in your bag and make you cold.  Invest in good rain gear. A good poncho is about $25 and they are hard to outgrow. (On the other hand, a good rain suit can cost $150 and is sized like pants and jackets.) Cheap, plastic ponchos are good to have handy for a sudden shower, but if it is really raining, they wont keep you dry.

I don't know why this is so dang hard. Our council holds Show'n'Sell first. Yeah, you still have to take a SWAG at how much to order. But the deadline for turning in Take Order sheets is several weeks after the end of Show'n'Sell. Units have the opportunity to re-inventory any unsold product which would be subtracted from the Take Order total. Smart units do this internally, but the council also allows returns from Show'n'Sell and redistributes the product for the Take Orders in the same manner. The other thing our pack (the troop doesn't sell popcorn) always did was to create a standard "kit" of popcorn for Scouts to sell. Typically you could pick up your popcorn Friday afternoon and returned any unsold product immediately after your shift. You could always check out more product or keep it longer, if you liked, but that was typically for the kids who were into it and wanted to sell. If you were just punching the clock in front of the A&P, you did your shift, turned-in any unsold product and you were done. That allowed our Kernel to turn that product around to the kids who wanted it.

Tried to create a new thread for this but keep getting an error message. This is a good one for Veteran's Day week. Hope everyone sees it here. + + + + + + Jack Lucas was a 14-year-old high school kid from the small coastal town of Plymouth, NC, when he decided to join the Marines. Not when he finished school, but right then. He was a tall, athletic kid so the Marines believed him when he said he was 17. Unfortunately, that still meant he needed his mothers permission to join the Corps, so he forged her signature on his enlistment papers. Jack was sent to Parris Island, SC, for basic training during which he earned the sharpshooter qualification. He was sent to New River Naval Air Station for further training and was certified as a heavy machine gunner and advanced to Private First Class. Unfortunately, his real age was discovered when military censors read a letter from his 15-year-old girlfriend. Jack told the Marines if they booted him from the Corps he would just join the Army, so they made him a truck driver and sent him to Pearl Harbor. Jack often told his friends he was going to join a combat unit, so no one was surprised when he went AWOL one day. Jack had stowed away on a troop transport ship, the USS Deuel, when he learned an arrest warrant had been issued for him as a deserter. He dressed in his best uniform and surrendered to the commanding officer. Already at sea, with nowhere else to go, Jack was permitted to join the 5th Marine Division. Jack celebrated his 17th birthday aboard the Deuel. Six days later the 5th Marine Division, including 17-year-old Jack Lucas of Plymouth, NC, invaded the small Japanese island of Iwo Jima. That same day, Jack and his squad were advancing in a small trench when they encountered a Japanese patrol. A firefight ensued during which the Japanese threw two hand grenades into the trench. Jack dove on top of two of his comrades and reached out to pull a third under him before the one of the grenades exploded, shielding them from the blast. Jack was seriously wounded but sacrifice allowed his squad to defeat the Japanese patrol and continue to advance. Jack was left for dead. Soon a Navy corpsman found Jack still alive. One of the grenades had failed to explode. Still Jack had more than 250 pieces of shrapnel in his body and endured 26 surgeries over the coming months. In October, 1945, in a ceremony at the White House, President Harry Truman honored Jack Lucas for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty and presented him with our nations highest military award, the Medal of Honor. He was still just 17 years old and was and is the youngest recipient of the Medal of Honor since the Civil War.

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Dusting off the political science degree, a little data: Since 1855 (approximately when the country settled on the Democrats and Republicans) there have been 77 Congressional terms. Democrats have controlled the house 43 terms and Republicans 36 terms. To Beav's theory, The president and the House have been from different parties 32 terms or about 40 percent of the time. Here's where it gets interesting: Looking at the data overall, there are three fairly distinct eras -- 1855 to 1897, 1897 to 1969, and 1969 to the present -- when the opposition party controlled the house to greater or lesser degrees. -- In the 21 Congressional terms between 1855 (Pierce) and 1898 (Cleveland's 2nd administration), the House and White House were controlled by different parties half the time (10 terms). -- In the 36 terms from 1897 (McKinley) through 1969 (Johnson) there were different parties in control only 7 terms, or 20% or the time. -- And here's where it really gets interesting: In the 24 Congressional terms since 1969 15 terms have had the House and White house under different parties -- 62.5% It is also interesting that the party in control of the House of Representatives is generally very stable. With only a few exceptions, the control of the house has changed for the long term only four times: From 1855 to 1875 Republicans controlled 9 of 10 terms From 1875 to 1895 Democrats controlled 8 of 10 terms From 1895 to 1933 Republicans controlled 16 of 19 terms From 1933 to 1995 Democrats controlled 29 of 31 terms And recently, from 1995 to present Republicans 7 of 9 terms. Of course you guys know the presidency bounces back and forth much more with only a few time with one party in the White House for several consecutive election cycles -- obviously FDR/Truman was the longest at 20 years, but the Republicans had two long stretches during Reconstruction (Grant/Hayes/Garfield/Arthur) and the Guilded Age (McKinley/TR/Taft) at 16 years each. So what? We were all taught the the House of Representative was supposed to be the "People's House" and much more responsive to the people (and presumably mercurial). If that's true, it may be in comparison to the Senate, certainly not the presidency. What I don't have is any evidence that gerrymandering is a greater issue now than it the past. If someone can show that the incidence of gerrymandering has increased significantly beginning in 1969 and there is a correlation between gerrymandering and the increase in different parties in the House and White house over since then, THEN you may have something. But since gerrymandering's namesake, Mass. Gov. Elbridge Gerry, was doin' his thing about 200 years age, let's assume the political influence is at least as old as the Republic and not a modern phenomenom. Still, gerrymandering may be a piece of the puzzle -- I don't know -- but there are many other factors too: -- Quality/popularity of individual candidates -- Good, old-fashioned campaigning -- James Carville proved this in 1992. -- Incumbency -- Local politics -- Money I really think incumbency is the greater factor. I think the data on the stability of control of the House points to that.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Wasn't there a major-party candidate running for U.S. Senate in 2010 from your neck of the woods, Pack, named Alvin Greene? What was his party affiliation? His qualifications for office were..... what? As much as we all want to think so, idiots aren't limited to the other party.

That was a rhetorical "vote" since we all know we don't get to vote on anything. As in, if you're interested in my opinion here it is. Although it could be said I'm already voting with my feet (or seat, as the case may be). And yes, absolutly do both, which is what I intended with my comment that those who wish to do so could continue monthly meetings.

I've lost count. Has anyone here defended Roundtables who is NOT a Roundtable Commissioner? My real eye-opener was when his Communications merit badge counselor suggested my older son attend Roundtable with me for one of the MB requirements. On the ride home he asked if that had been a typical RT. Yup. "Well that has to be the biggest waste of time I've ever seen." From the mouths of babes. SSS asked which RT was better attended the one which was informative and nothing else or the ones run like pack meetings. I'll vote for informative and nothing else. I have no need to sit and watch glue dry; I understand the concept. Show me a craft, give me written instructions, maybe point out potential problems and tips for using it in your program and move on. Our CS-RTC was under the delusion all the leaders in attendance were under the age of 10. You know the type -- knows all 17 verses to the Announcement Song and thinks everyone enjoys her singing them all. I already have got friends. Many of them serve with me in our troop. I don't need to hang out in a church basement munching stale cookies and store-brand soft drinks. I vote for the virtural Roundtable. Anyone else who wants to get together monthly is more than welcome to continue to do so.

Interesting hypothesis. I'd like to see the data. I wonder if the difference couldn't be explained by the "all or nothing" the Electorial College? It would be interesting to see how the Electorial College count would be effected if voting for president were counted by congressional district, not state? Back in college, for one of my senior Poli-Sci courses we had to redistrict the state's congressional districts. Especially in the pre-PC era, it is amazing that it can be done at all, much less balancing all the political, jurisdictional and legal requirements. Problem with your proposal, Beav, is it will violate the Voting Rights Act. In some cases the DOJ requires districts split counties, even precincts, to meet minority representation requirements. In our area we have one of the worst gerrymandered districts in the country, the NC 12th "dragon" district. It was specifically created in 1990 as a "majority minority" district and originally rambled over half the state connecting minority areas in Charlotte, Winston-Salem, Greensboro and Durham. In some places it was only as wide as I-85, which it roughly follows. The 2010 redistricting did make it a little less squirely. The result? Mel Watt, the one and only person ever to represent the district for the past 20 years, won Tuesday night with 80% of the vote, a statistical outlier? No, about average for the 12th. Consequently, parts of the rural area where I live I'm just outside the 12th) is represented by a guy, Watt, who probably can't find us on a map. And Charlotte which basically swung the state for Obama in 2008 and site of the 2012 Democratic convention, is represented in Congress by a Republican. I found an article listing the 10 worst gerrymandered districts in the country -- TX 35th, OH 9th, FL 14th, IL 4th & 7th, NC 1st & 12th, MD 2nd & 3rd, and PA 7th. Interestingly, eight of the 10 are held by Democrats. Of course gerrymandering works both ways. One of the reasons NC 12th votes 80% Democrat is it has become a Democratic dumping ground. The Republican legislature dumps Democratic voters into the 12th creating safe Republican districts adjacent to the 12th. And it worked. Tuesday one of the adjacent districts changed from D to R, largely due to redistricting (and because the incumbent Democrat is an idiot.) But I chalk that up to Federal interference. The Republicans read the Voting Rights Act which requires "majority-minority" districts and figured they would give them a REAL majority-minority district.

How would overhearing something said in a conversation to which you were not a party infer your agreement?

duplicate(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Here's a recipe I stole from my mom. High praise! Adapts well to a D.O. and is perfect for this time of year: Pumpkin Pie Cobbler 1, 16oz can of pumpkin pulp 1, 12oz can of evaporated milk 3 eggs 1.5 cups of sugar 4 tbs. pumpkin pie spice 1 box yellow cake mix 1 cup pecan chips 1 cup melted butter. Mix pumpkin, evaporated milk, eggs, sugar and spice directly in the Dutch Oven Spread cake mix over other ingredients (DO NOT mix in). Sprinkle pecan chips on top of cake mix. Drizzle butter on top. (I don't bother dirtying another pan melting butter, just drop slices on top of mix. I also sprinkle a little sugar on top of everything which gives the crust a little more crunch.) Bake at 350 for 50 minutes. I put a little more heat on top and a little less on bottom. The pumpkin mix is pretty light and it takes a little more heat for the crust.) Really good with a shot of Redi-Whip or ice cream, if you have it. Made it this past weekend and it was a big hit. One of my ASMs said it was the best dessert he ever had on a campout.

An Amtrack station was mentioned in the original plans for the site. An Amtrack mainline into DC runs through the bottom of the gorge, parallel to the river. Of course we dont' now when in the grand scheme of things it will be built.

Been a few years, but the timing here was that the take orders weren't due until after show'n'sell concluded. Of course any show'n'sell overstock was easily distributed to fill the take orders. If were were in a situation where we were required to cut our wrists and order inventory in advance of paid sales, I'd tell the council to pound sand. If you are going to absorb the risk, you can sell candy bars and first aid kits at higher margins. Most councils seem like their such great partners when they are explaining why you need to sell, but that evaporates when it comes to risk taking. Councils should have equitable policies for dealing with over stock and accounts receivable. At minimum, there should be a point at which councils cut their profits. If a unit is taking a hit, the council should share the pain. Few seem to.

I believe the technical term for this Corbett/Spanier thing is "p---ing contest."

Second Class's list of questions is why we try to stay out of the tall weeds when it comes to gas money. WAAAY too many permutations to try and make a reasonable policy. Our rule is "A Scout is Courteous." Courtesy dictates you offer to cover the gas whenever someone gives you a ride. (And this is true for a Scout trip, the neighbor who gives you a ride to school every morning or an away football game.) It's then up to the driver to accept your offer or not. This tends to come up everytime gas approaches $4/gal. There are always the same few who complain about gas money (one guy, in particular, is tight as Dick's hat band.) Ultimately, we tell parents if cost is an issue and they feel like they've done their share, then don't drive. What we've found is that most of the ASM going on trips want to drive just to have their own vehicles with them, so they drive regardless. The one exception to all this is the guy pulling the trailer -- which is usually me or maybe one other ASM. First, you're not pulling the trailer with a Prius. My truck get 12-14mpg at best and that usually drops to about 8-10 with the trailer. And with two, maybe three boys riding with me, the $20 bucks they may chip in doesn't touch the near $100 gas bill it takes to get to camp and back. Consequently, we've said the troop pays whoever pulls the trailer. If we're local, I don't worry about it, but going to camp and back I'll fill up on the troop's nickel.

This woman is a nut job. Apparently she just needs a bogeyman man to blame things on and the local council is it right now. I have great empathy for her son's difficulties, but as he goes through life I'm afraid he will discover his mother is one of them.

My issues with the direction of the advancement program are of philosophy, not wording. I have no doubt there have been abuses (I, too, hear the war stories) but we've thrown the baby out with the bath water. Your analogy of a Scoutmaster "being on the other side of the gate pulling their scouts through" is anathema to my way of thinking. Coaching, encouraging, mentoring, helping, guiding ... but I ain't pullin' nobody no where. Seems to me we're getting away from the idea of Scouts "earning" advancement. Now they only need to complete In my mind earning something suggests individual effort and initiative. But "completion" simply means getting across the finish line (or through the gate to continue your analogy) by any means -- whether your mother pushes you through or your Scoutmaster pulls you through matters not. Just check the box. Strikes me as a huge disconnect between the mission, aims and the other seven methods. Although they are fairly small examples, it is especially difficult to reconcile the aim of character with a policy which PROHIBITS a Scout from being asked to follow up with his own references or to take responsiblility to arrange a meeting which is for his own benefit and advancement.

Given the current direction of things, E., you're probably not far off. OBTW, Nacap, I'm being totally sarcastic here. Eagle boards SHOULD be given more weight, boards SHOULD be able to defer Scouts when issues arise. Scout Spirit SHOULD be made a meaningful I really think BSA is headed in the wrong directions with its low-drag, high-speed advancement process. Why in the heck CAN'T a 16-, 17- or 18-year-old Eagle candidate be responsible for making sure his references follow through? Sure, maybe somewhere all the EBOR volunteers try to make life miserable for Eagle candidates. Maybe all the adults in some kid's life are morons and incapable of writing and submitting a letter of reference in a timely manner. At some point there needs to be policy and procedure in place to make sure kids aren't screwed by their references. But current policy LEADS those assumptions. Here's another rediculous example, Section 8.0.0.2 "Scoutmasters, for example, do not have authority to expect a boy to request" a board of review. Why the heck not? If one of the objectives of the merit badge program is to allow youth the opportunity to contact an adult, make and keep an appointment, why can't that goal be met by a Scout arranging for his own BOR? Not to mention the fact it is perfectly reasonably for the two people primarily involved in a conference, the Scout and the advancement chairman, to be the two who make the arrangements for the conference. Why the Scoutmaster as middleman? Far too much of the new G2A seems to have been written on the assumption that all Scout leaders are a bunch of grumpy curmudgeons who have to be controlled. Or maybe it was written in reaction to every problem any Scout ever encountered. Anything which has ever resulted in a Scout/parent complaining to national now has it's own rule. While the advancement team may be pleased their afternoon naps are no longer interrupted, they don't realize the cost of these policies. So many opportunities missed for young men to take responsibility and control of this little piece of their lives, to be treated as responsible adult instead of children incapable of solving problems; so many missed chances to have meaningful interaction with adults of good character.

9.0.1.7 References Contacted Council advancement committee membersor others designatedcontact the references appearing on the Eagle Scout application. This may be done by letter, form, or phone call. For reasons of privacy and confidentiality, electronic submissions are discouraged. It is acceptable to send or deliver to the references an addressed envelope with instructions, and perhaps a form to complete. The Scout may assist with this, but that is the limit of his participation. He is not to be responsible for follow-through or any other aspect of the process. It is up to the councils designated representatives to make every effort to collect the responses. If after a reasonable effort no response can be obtained from any references, the board of review must go on without them. It may not be postponed or denied for this reason, and the Scout may not be asked to submit additional references or to provide replacements. So, Eisley, based on the policy a kid could, in theory, submit fictious references or fail to deliver the council request form and be totally unaccountable when the letters don't materialize. Of course it is unthinkable that a youth would do that. And it is completely unreasonable to ask a young man of Eagle caliber for assistance in contacting four or five individuals who will attest to his character. We must always guard against the old reprobate Scouters serving on Eagle Boards who only seek to create impediments to a low drag, high speed path to Eagle. Frankly, we should just drop the reference ruse completely. They mean nothing. Who's going to list a bad reference in the first place? And if one sneaks through, what could they say which would change the outcome. If the requirements are complete, if the boxes are checked, it's a done deal. Asking for reference is clearly adding to the requirements.

This fish is rotten from the head down. I know some will disagree, but this is a failure of the adult leadership. The youth leadership is either not trained, lost discipline or just doesn't care. The most telling part of the weekend was the lack of adult supervision at the CO. That's unacceptable on any number of levels. It would take very competent youth leadership to overcome the multiple failures you describe. This is a cluster which has been months in the making. As a perspective parent with a lot of program knowledge, E, I'd want to have a very serious heart to heart with the SM.