Twocubdad

Easy, BD. An early Halloween? Been possessed by the ghost of an old WB Course Director? Many more posts like that and the council will want to make YOU a course director.

Since it's all in house, I wouldn't call it fundraising at all -- no more than collecting dues is a fundraiser. Now if you put collection jars in check-out aisles in area stores, then it's a fundraiser and would violate the BSA principle of offering a fair product for a fair price. I'm with Tampa that this may be an interesting inter-patrol competition but I dont' see it working with individual Scouts. May be fun between patrols but could come across as mean if directed at individuals.

Hi Ohana, Debbie Downer here.... If you read through a lot of the old threads about WB, one of the big negatives of WB to a lot of folks is it's clannishness. Be careful that you don't let the WB reunion over shadow the Cuboree. Include other folks from your pack when you are visiting with your WB buddies. Introduce them to your new circle of contacts and friends. Go easy on the WB regalia stuff -- unless you've been through WB, most folks think adults playing with stuffed beavers and buffalo is just weird. As any Friendly, Courteous Scout would do, when you're hanging with your mates, look over your shoulder and see who looks left out. Otherwise, I absolutely agree with you. Making contacts is an important part of WB and the commraderie can and should be a big part of the experience. But that's true of all of Scouting, too. Many of my very best friends are those I've served with in the troop. I'm still very close to several of my old staffers from day camp. I've made good friends staffing at camp school over the years. Of course it's no different for the boys. My sons have good friends they've made at summer camp, NYLT and jamboree, too.

And in that situation, E, I'd say shame on the Scout Executive for letting the little twit cost us a good volunteer. When some of us say we fear this situation turning into a witch hunt, THAT is what we are talking about.

Scoutnut has the right answer -- DISCUSS the material with the Scout as per the language of the requirement. Ask him to put away his notes and talk with you. Evaluate his understanding and preparation based on your conversation and move forward accordingly. I don't know that you have a real basis to make an accusation. Those conversations will probably be highly unproductive anyway. You do have enough information to guide your future interaction with the young man. Stay away from situations where the dad may be able to provide more assistance than may be appropriate.

BD -- great post. A rational, studied report of the difficulities you had with WB. I knew you could do it. Your post should be required reading at every course director conference. (Of course, for the CDs who run courses like that, they won't think you're talking about them anyway.) And while I'm posting, I'll reiterate my original point: Like many character issues, asking the Scout to sit through their Scoutmaster's or Den Leader's beading ceremony isn't about the old farts getting the beads. It IS about the boys. Those boys need to understand that ol' Mr. Grouche doesn't just show up Saturday's and drink coffee. They need to understand that Mr. Grouche has a passion for Scouting, that he puts considerable time and effort into it (beyond the already considerable time they see him) and that he really cares about the program. If they understand that, maybe they develop an appreciation for what he does and maybe his example of servant leadership takes on a little bit more significance for those boys. No, no 11-y.o. is ever going to connect all those dots, but one day he may. Part of being a servant leader is humility. That's a good thing. But another part of what we do is to lead by example. For that example to be effective with the boys, it needs to be visible to them. I'm not much on Bible quotations but I believe there is a pertinent verse about hiding your light under a basket. Musta been about 1966 or 67 my Den Chief, Scott, earned his Eagle. Our Den Mothers (one of whom was my mom) hauled the entire den out to his Court of Honor. Back in the day, COHs were held at the district level. Every rank, merit badge and recruiter strip earned in the district was presented. I went on for hours and was so big it was held in the high school football stadium. I think Scott was one of maybe 8 or 10 Eagles. But it made a big impression on me -- so much so that 45 years later I can still see our whole den sitting on one row, maybe four or five rows from the front. Must have impressed the other guys, too. Of those 11 Cubs in that den, 8 are Eagle Scouts. You never know who is watching and remembering.... Keep the big picture in mind. It's got nothing to do with the beads.

Wear it with pride.

Pete -- same page which makes completing an application a requirement for Eagle.

"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad, obnoxious, or unjust laws so effective as their strict execution." -- U.S. Grant Excellent strategy, SMB. (And thanks to Merlyn for the quote.)

So I'll admit upfront I have no experince, knowledge or training in Venturing. But if we are trying to build a program for young people through age 21, it seems fairly reasonable that said program needs to accommodate the social realities of those young people. That some of them will develop normal, healthy relationships seems foreseeable. It is also unlikely to expect the couples will have 21st birthdays on the same day. The policy changes necessary to fix it are easy and obvious. This gives me a little more insight as to why the Venturing program isn't really working out as advertised.

As CM I really struggled with keeping advancement meaningful with a pack ranging from 100-120 boys. My feeling is the primary purpose of a pack meeting is recognition and I really don't want to short-change the boys who had earned stuff. We did however, start giving out belt loops and other "minor" awards during den meetings. After I left, the new regime decided on holding separate "award meeting" in addition to the pack meetings. They hold them one Sunday afternoon a month. The few I've seen are attended only by the boys receiving the awards and their parents -- usually a fairly small group. On the other hand, they tend to make pack meetings more about "entertainment" bringing in magicians and special programs. I don't really know about it all.... Of course, I've kept my mouth shut because it's no longer my bid'nis and I don't really know how it works for the boys. Maybe the like it. But I do agree that I would go to considerable lengths and some creative planning/programming to keep from going through a split. Never seen it go well.

Back to the merit badge.... Since we're all just guessing/hoping, my hope is that this doesn't become a water-down, easy to get alternative to Enviro-Sci. ES is one of the few remaining required MBs which really require some effort. I'd hate to see this as an easy work-around. My fear is compounded by by sons' experiences taking AP Enviormental Science in high school. My younger son, who is currently taking the course, says that now, two months in, they have yet to cover anything he didn't get from the merit badge. My older son used to call the class Enviromental Politics or Bottle Collecting 101. The basic message of the class was you can save the world if you'll just collect enough plastic bottles. This while ignoring the insane number of Escalades in the pick-up lane or the number of students in families of four living in 6,000-sq.ft. houses. I think SP's point is if this is what you mean by sustainability, then don't bother.

I dont' think what you're looking for will ever be found an a training course. What you are looking for is found by experience. I absolutely agree that running someone through an 8 hour class and expecting them to be the sage Scoutmasters we're looking for is silly. But for new units, that's often how it works. Supplemental courses and to a much lesser extent Roundtable are just part of the OJT, as far as I'm concerned. You'll learn much more on a weekend campout than you will at a Roundtable. I have zero training or experience as a commissioner, but from what I see from the outside I wish there were commissioners who specialized in things like building new units or rescuing failing one, just as there are those now who specialize in running Roundtable (and I know there's talk of moving RTCs to the training staff). I'd like to see the New Unit Commissioner (or even a New Unit Leader Commissioner) take on the role mentoring that unit leader one-on-one and very intensively for a period of time. They need to roll up their sleeves and get into the meat of helping to run the unit and slowly back away as the "real" leaders get the hang of it. No different than what we ask of our Troop Guides working with a New Scout Patrol. I know commissioners are trained NOT to engage in this level of involvement in a unit, but that philosophy needs to change. I think Seattle has been doing this sort of work helping failing Cub Scout packs with a great deal of success. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread. Don't really intend to move this to a discussion of commissioners.

My point exactly, BSA24.

BSA deserves every bit of bad publicty and ill will it gets over this. Why? Because the folks running the show at National are MORONS! You reading this Wayne Brock? I'm talking to you. This from a guy who has helped pay your salary YOUR ENTIRE CAREER! We've known this was coming for, what, at least six months, and should have had a good clue about it for two years. What has BSA done to get out ahead of this? Why didn't they release the files on their own terms. Where is the analysis of the files pointing out the incidence of abuse reports compared to other institutions? Or pointing out that in the vast majority of cases BSA handled the situation well and prevented further abuse? Or the number of cases which were outside of Scouting over which BSA had no control? I don't know what these stats are. But why not? Why haven't we -- the people STILL paying Wayne Brock's salary -- been given some ammunition to have these discussions? Instead, we're letting NPR and the LA Times drive this story. How do you think their spin is going to be? How's it working so far? Yes, this is just the PR/media game. But you can play the game or bury your head in the sand. We can pretend to be above it all and that the publicity doesn't help us protect or serve Scouts. BUT IT DOES. How many units will we loose? Sounds like every Methodist CO in Florida is refusing to recharter already. How many families will drop? How many will never join. I hope Brock has 14 TV crews camped out on his front lawn this weekend. He and every member of his staff deserves every bit of grief they've earned.

I'm in. Beav, how about getting us started on some sort of scoring rubric so we are working toward a common purpose. Maybe Prof. Packsaddle can help with the design? If we're going to do a credible job of analyzing the data, is this something we should take off line?

Foolish inconsistencies....

I just re-read the G2SS on this and it's all over the place. A surprising number of inconsistancies. Nonetheless, it sure seems silly to prohibit a married couple from sharing a tent, regardless of age. If the couple were the parents of a Tiger Cub it wouldn't be an issue on a pack campout. Why in a crew? Will this couple be required to apply the 24/7 view of YP guidelines. If the advisor/husband is obligated to apply YP rules outside of Scouting, it could be a long, cold 18 months. The whole "grey Scout" thing is just stupid. Why can't some common sense be applied? (And yes, I do know how to subtract 7 from 19. But work with me here....)

Really, Fred? In 12 years you've never met a Cub Scout who has ever earned a rank badge? Since Bobcat is required before all other ranks, and the first requirement is learn the Promise and Law of the Pack, EVERY Cub Scout, Den Leader and Cubmaster I've met knows them. But ho hum, I really don't care. Seems like tinkering for the sake tinkering. Like a dog wizzing on a bush just so other dogs know he's been there. And implementation isn't until 2015. They must really feel strongly about this!

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/10/17/cooking-sustainability-merit-badges-to-become-eagle-required/ Cooking has regained it's rightful place in the world! A new "Sustainability" MB is now an option to Enviromental Science. Scouts will now be required to earn 13 required MBs.

I think you're buying trouble. Let me see if I'm understanding things: Basically the two TCs don't like the old CC. Maybe he's a little egotistical (almost a requirement to be on council committees) and may spend time sawing on the troop's branch. But no real evidence. Two committee members don't want the old CC to have copies of the financials, which really should be open to anyone who wants to see them anyway. Besides, all he would have to do would ask his wife, the IH, for a copy. You are trying to cut down on the number of inactive committee members in order to cut the adult registration cost to the troop, which is, I believe, still $15. You really have adults who can't afford $15? One thing you don't mention is how/how much the old CC contributes to the troop. Does he show up for TC meetings? Does he add to the troop, or is he just keeping his unit registration as primary for his council job? Other than several adults who seem to enjoy wizzin' on each other's pants, what's the point of all this? If the old CC doesn't contribute anything to the troop anymore, send him an email and let him him know you're cleaning up the charter and are going to drop him and all the other inactive folks. If he wants to keep his registration, fine, but let him know the deadline for paying his dues. Then have invite the two loudmouths on the committee out for a cup of coffee. In a nice way, ask them to grow up. Causing a stink with someone who, A) is married to the president of your chartered organization, B) is an active and apparently influential member of the council, and, C) has given a lot to the unit over the years, is just childish. You need this heartburn like you need a sucking chest wound. One legitimate issue I think you have is in the way your run the committee. Sounds like you run is as a democracy. It really shouldn't be. The committee should be more of a clearing house than a legislative body. Things should run on concensus rather than a vote. But if that's not how you handle things, having wild card committee members has the potential to be a problem. Say the committee is faced with a controversial decision. The "regulars" work through a solution and have a handle on things, but then a bunch of inactive hot heads decide to show up and want a vote. If they all have BSA membership cards which say Troop Committee on them, it's hard to tell them they can't vote. The key is consistency. If the committee is a voting body, then you need to consistently keep up with who is or isn't a voting member. Or consistently run the committee as a consultative group and don't go the voting route at all.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Changing the direction a bit to the Washington Post article BD posted. Good Grief, Charlie Brown! The early part of my career was spend as a news reporter, so I know a little about journalistic standards and have always had a soft spot for the news and those who report it. Understanding professional news gathering and editing and the checks and quality controls which go into it, I've long been concerned with the dangers of the "blogsphere" which lack those controls. I believe we need professionals who are dedicated to fair, balanced and accurate reporting. Well, this article shoots that theory all to hell. This is nothing but the fictional musings of some bozo puking on his keyboard. Mr. Hirschfield, the "reporter", starts by telling us what the BSA ASSUMES. Not what the BSA said or did, but what he ASSUMES their belief's to be based upon. He then interviews the kid who contradicts statements he made in earlier published interviews. So the bozo spends the rest of the column explaining what the kid meant to say and that the contradictions are really the fault of the BSA for creating a situation in which it is difficult to say one really means. What th'.....? This guy wanted to write a column and make a point. Unfortunately, he had nothing to support that point. So he just made up some stuff to get him there. Reminds of my junior high science teacher, Mr. Curtis. His labs were really great but he was a little thin on the math and theory. He would be working to balance some long equation on the board and get down to the solution of 2=7, or something like that. At that point he would employ a little know theorem called "Curtis's Constant" which states that you may add or subtract any factor necessary to get the right answer. In the above example, Curt's Constant would be -5, making the equation 2=7-5 or 2=2. Mr. Hirschfield has very liberally (no pun intended) applied Curt's Constant to his writing.

When we joined the pack (like 12 or 13 years ago now) everyone in the pack cooked and ate individually. It really limited campout attendance. For non-camping families, sleeping in a tent was enough of a stretch, but cooking over a campfire was a bit much. We started doing meals as a pack including all the purchasing, cooking and cleaning. We usually charged a per person price to cover the cost. It was a big success. We went from maybe 30 people -- a fraction of the pack's membership -- to sometimes 200 folks. Wrap your head around catering a meal for 200 people while camping!

Life lessons included, no extra charge. Both boys will likely have jobs where they work with or for people they don't particularly respect or care for. This is a good time to start figuring it out. Sit the two of them down together, tell them, "figure it out" and close the door behind you as you leave. As SM, the best think you can do is make sure they see the results of their choices. Give them opportunities to work together and be successful, but don't bail them out if their lack of cooperation creates problems. Of course your son has the short end of the stick. But he has the choice to take the high road and do everything he can to support the SPL or be unsupportive or even spending his time sawing on the SPLs limb. That's a good topic for a Scoutmaster's conference, but an even better chat between a kid and his dad while working in the yard, watching a ballgame or walking in the woods.

Not to rehash our entire orientation program with the new parents, but the campout is the first of three formal opportunities new parents have to hear it. We have a short presentation for them when the Webelos visit the troop meeting and we also have meetings for the parents during each of the first month's troop meetings after crossover. What I'm specifically looking for are the jobs you have for new volunteers. Where do you steer them that they can contribute? Do you try to find things for them to do which keep them away from their sons' patrols?