Twocubdad

Stephen; Thank you for trying to bring our Scout home. Everyone here appreciates what you are doing.

I probably should have been clearer, but my purpose in asking about recharter dates was to get to the bottom of where the money is going. If you recharter in Feb. and dues are $5.10, BL is $5.40 and the PWD kit is $3.50, then where other $6.00 going? If just drops to the council's bottom line, I too would have a problem. On the other hand if your unit recharters in May, your pro-rated dues are $7.65, BL is $8.10 and $3.50 for the car is close enough to $20 to not worry about making change. You can argue either side of it being fair to force boys to pay for their own gift or even requiring a BL subscription. But if you think the "profit" out of the PWD kit is a net to the council, I don't think you have much of a case. I hope ATC will repost and clarify where the money is going.

When is your recharter date? If it is in September, the $20 is correct. If it's inside that, the dues and BL subscription should be pro-rated. We recharter in February and our dues for new boys are $5.10 and $5.40 for BL. If in fact the $20 fee includes a net involuntary donation to the council and you object to it, then just don't play. Recruit your Scouts as you normally do, collect the proper fees and turn them in with their application. Of course you won't get the PWD kit, but you need to figure out if the new boys have been told they will be receiving them. I believe I heard our DE say the kits cost the council $3.50 each, so factor that in to the cost. The lunchbox and PWD is a national promotion. When I first heard about it I didn't like the idea (acutally still don't). I think it detracts from our pack's PWD in the winter. Plus we're giving the boys the kits now with no opportunity to race until February. We had decided to hold the kits until we give them to all the boys in December. Unfortunately, all the promotional flyers and mailings mention receiving the ki and the boys are expecting them. We may encourage the new dens to hold their own mini-races if it becomes an issue.

HoooooooUH!

To my knowledge, our OA lodge does next to nothing. Two years ago I was chairman of a district Cub event that was overrun with Scouts. Registration doubled the prior year's numbers and our plans. About two weeks out I asked the OA chapter if they could send some guys to help or at least come for a couple hours early and help park cars. Was told that since we weren't on the OA calendar that it couldn't happen. Their calendar is planned a year in advance. Several years ago our Pack invited the dance team to perform at a pack meeting. They cancelled with only a couple days notice. We rescheduled them a couple months later. This time they didn't cancel but only one guy showed up. He wouldn't dance but just put his costume on a table as a display. This spring my older son's troop scheduled it's OA election and arranged for an election team to conduct it. When they failed to show up, the troop's OA Rep conducted the election himself. Big Stink follows. Seems it's against the rules to conduct the election in your own troop. A couple months later we had a redo election with the same two boys being elected -- again. No, I'm not terribly impressed with the local brotherhood.

I'll admit to a bit of hyperbole, but the committee and the CO needs to answer question: Is anyone here really committed to doing what is necessary to have a successful Scout troop?

I like the story, Bob. I may turn it into a skit and have one of the older dens act it out at our first pack meeting in a couple weeks. I don't use the stick, but we always "practice" the sign several times, letting the boys scream and yell then throwing up the sign to be quiet. I also like the "no shushing in Boy Scouts" line. I've got one den leader who insists on screaming "Signs UP" all the time. The one thing the boys don't seem to get is the immediacy of the sign. The seem to think it means "wind up what you're doing, finish your conversation and find a seat." My pet peeve is "false alarms" -- leaders who use the sign to get the boy quiet but get distracted or involved in answering another question and leave the boys hanging. Invariably the boys start talking again only to have signs up again seconds later. Our Webelos camp director was bad about doing that this summer. They were also bad about doing signs up 19 times during a meal for every little comment or announcment anyone wanted to make. Get you act together! Make one set of announcements and let us eat!

Let me see if I'm following: SM doesn't come to meeting. You are obviously burned out and frustrated. Most parents are uninvolved. The one dad who sounds interested is already a WDL and doesn't want a larger role in the troop. The CO isn't interested solving leadership problems. You only get platitudes from the district. And most significantly, fewer that half the boys sound as if they really want to be in Scouts. So what's the point? Try to find a functioning troop for the boys who really want to be in Scouts and put this one out of it's misery. I'm serious! If everyone is this miserable, go do something else. Play soccer. Learn to paint. If no one is interested in Scouting why go through the motions?

Although I'm no longer officially a committee member I "work with a committee" so I suppose I'm qualified to respond. Plus this sounds to be an interesting thread. The committee of our Cub pack runs very well. The chairman is new, but is doing a good job of getting his sea legs under him. We just got through our annual planning meeting and he did a good job. Our strongest suit is that we have a good, active outings subcommittee. Most of the members are BALOO trained. We give them a date, tell them where we want to go and they run with it. Our weakest area is secretary and treasurer, due to those positions being vacant for several month before the to current office holders took over. They seem to be trying hard to make a fresh start with procedures and record keeping this year, but honestly I would like them to be a little more aggressive about making things happen. But hey, the slots are filled and functioning. The bulk of the committee are the folks who come and go as needed -- popcorn, blue & gold, FOS, etc. We have very strong folks in those positions who know their jobs without the need for a lot of supervision. The few times we've had turnover in these slots the old folks have done a good job of finding and training their replacements. But the best part of all this is that none of the above people are den leaders (although quite a few are spouses of DLs). That was not the case two years ago when I became chairman. Not only have we spread the work around, but we've brought new blood into the pack leadership. The DLs focus on program and the boys. At my older son's troop, pretty much the opposite is true. Several of the key positions are vacant. The chairman wants to retire, but until last week wouldn't say so (I sort of outted him). No one is responsible for recruiting new volunteers. Their approach has been to put one line in the newsletter "We need someone to ...." and then be surprised to learn that no one steps forward. Jobs aren't very well defined with several people doing different parts on the same job and none of others. So far we've avoided disaster. One campout was saved when a dad volunteered to go at the last minute. Another one was converted to a day trip after no one remembered to reserve a campsite. In short, it's a mess.

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

We suggest $300 per boy, which they can easily sell if they cover two Show & Sell shifts. We suggest that up front, but it's not as if we track it or make a big deal of those who do or don't reach that level.

There are many positive contributions Scouting can make to a boy. Positive association with an adult male is just one of them. Exercise, a sense of belonging, responsibility -- we could all come up with a long list of things we teach or instill in boys under the heading of character development. But I believe that Scouting should be a supplement to all these things, not a boys primary source. KoreaScouter's quote from George Carlin was a good one: "If your child needs a role model and you ain't it you've both got problems." I a parent brought a boy to a Scout meeting and said, "He's totally out of control, I want you to teach him some discipline" or "He's been arrested three times this year, I want you to teach him to be a good citizen," we would quickly point out that that isn't our job. BSA can HELP teach discipline and citizenship; a Scout leader can be A good male role model or A good female role model. But only for an hour a week.

The link worked for me. Tell your guys at council it is BIN 13-228. I wish I had seen this about four hours earlier. We had our annual planning meeting tonight and would love to have given this to all the DLs.

Sounds like you handled it well, but I agree it may be time to look for another venue. What is your CO's participation in all this? Part of their responsibility in chartering a unit is to provide meeting space. I understand if they don't have room, then they don't have room, but helping you find another locale should be the responsibility of the Chartered Organization Rep. or possibly Committee chairman.

Related to the Scout in Utah possibly having taken shelter in a cave, what about including a length of surveyor's tape in a survival kit? It could be used to flag your shelter for rescuers or mark a trail if you are forced to move. It comes in probably a dozen colors or patters and one $2.00 roll would be enough for an entire troop.

Registered 20 new boys at our CO last night. Three more couldn't attend but called picked up registration packets. And we still have school night to go in in couple of weeks.

Prune brandy?!?!? If that doesn't test your faith nothing will.

I vote for whatever you husband said and however he said it! On the other hand, I think there are a lot of people who see Scouting as a place where boy who may not otherwise have one are exposed to positive male role models. Two days ago I had a single mom call me about joining our pack. One of her questions was whether or not our leaders were male because that's what she thought her son needed. True, a parent has the ability to select a unit for her son on any basis she likes -- all male leaders, all members of the same faith, all with green eyes. But although all our den leaders are in fact male, I told the mom that is not really how BSA operates. We are about teaching character development, citizenship, etc., and don't really make a distinction between male or female leaders. I also noted that while all our den leaders are male, most of the successful dens are in practice run by husband/wife teams. While the men are the ones in uniform leading the den meetings, little would happen if it weren't for the moms making the phone calls, organizing the crafts, etc., etc.

I've got a little bit different problem with a member of our district committee. This is an older lady who takes the e-mail addresses off e-mails from our DE and uses them to send out junk mail. She is forever sending these sob-story parables, or pleas from some kid with a fatal disease who for some reason thinks tying up the internet with a million spam messages will make them feel beter. The ones that really grate my nerves are the political causes. We've had a number of them posted here from time to time. Needless to say, she and I don't agree on much. It's not so much her political leanings, it's that she has never taken the time to compose an original thought -- she just forwards whatever junk she receives. Occasionally I've taken the time to compose a response and engage in a real discussion, but have never received anything back from her. I've also asked her point blank to take me off her list. I suppose that would take more time than to click "select all." Using addresses collected for a legitimate purpose and using them for other causes is at best rude.

East or West? I was at Moraine, subcamp 3, I think, down the hill from the big trading post. I have my 73 jambo patch on a couple of my uniforms. Being a Cub leader, boys often ask me what all the patches represent. It is a good opportunity to tell them about the things I did as a Scout and to talk to them about all the things in store for them.

I think we've chewed the G2SS guidelines a couple times, but I have a copy of the new Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines which says: Webelos Scout dens are encouraged to visit Boy Scout Camporees and Klondike derbies. the purpose of these visits should be for the boys to look ahead with anticipation to their future as Boy Scouts and observe troops they might join. Webelos Scouts should not compete against or participate in activities designed for Boy Scouts. Webelos Scouts houlsd not spend the night at the event if the program is Boy Scout-Based.

Does this rational apply to a Scout who submits a completed merit badge application? Does asking to be recognized for the work he has completed demonstrate a lack of humility? Do your Scouts wait in humble silence hoping someone will notice that they've completed the requirements for an advancement and present them with the badge? Are the Scouts aware that it is "unseemly" for them to ask for credit toward second class, star or life for a service project? Whether you call it applying, being nominated or annointed, in my district if you want a training knot, you keep up with your own records and submit the application yourself. By doing so are we fishing for compliments? (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

1) Most of the adult knots we are talking about are awarded for having met certain standards for the position. Most called Training Awards and are earned by jumping through a series of hoops related to tenure in position, completion of training and objective performance criteria. Anyone and everyone holding a given position can earn them. This is different from awards like the District Award of Merit or the various Silver Critter Awards which are given for a substantial body of work over an extended time and judged by somewhat subjective criteria. 2) All the position specific training awards are self-nominated. Not only does the recipient have to track his or her own progress toward the award, they have to complete and sign an application. Given that, I don't understand all the angst concerning the proper level of humility in accepting the award. If you think nominating your self or wearing a knot shows a lack of humility, don't turn in the dang application! 3) There is nothing in the world wrong with Scoutingus pointing out that with the pile of knots available to Scouters of every stripe, there is no corresponding knot for MBC. For everyone else to jump on him and assume that he is volunteering for the wrong reason is out of line. Based on a seven sentence post, you have no clue what his motives are. And frankly, I agree that the lack of recognition for MBC is an omission in the program. 4) All the pompus indignation that Scoutingus trying to dictate to BSA what awards they should present is bull. How has his making a suggestion on a Internet bulletin board infringed on BSA's freedom to choose what awards they present? By the way, welcome to the forum Gus. I hope you will stick around despite the unfriendly reception you have received thus far. Over the past couple years I have learned much here. Unfortunately you have to learn to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat.

Our pack goes heavy on the show and sell route. Of course there is some risk involved and you need a track record to know how much product to pre-order. One of our local packs, a brand-new unit, pre-ordered a ton of popcorn and got badly burned when they couldn't sell most of it. The key to a good show and sell effort is pre-arranging your selling locations. We've got a great popcorn colonel who does a great job of getting us organized. As for the take orders, absolutely try to collect as much money as you can up front. The printed literature that says people should only pay when the popcorn is delivered is baloney. In addition to solving the collection problem, it makes delivering the popcorn much easier if it is prepaid. After two tries delivering popcorn, my boys will call the people and ask if it is okay to just leave it on the door step, which is usually okay. You can't do that if they've not prepaid for the product.

I've got an old-style two stage drip pot, the kind where you put the coffee in the middle and pour hot water into the top stage. If you're quick, you can boil the water in the bottom stage, pour it into the top and quickly put it all back together without loosing too much water or coffee. Slightly different question: Does anyone know the trick to making the old style percolator work? I have one that heats the water, but nothing perks to the top. Is there some trick to sealing the base of the stem to the bottom of the pot to get it to work?