blw2

great topic/thread @@MrBob! I've only sat in on one board of review so far as committee member. It was right after I started and I was honestly blindsided by it.... nobody asked me before hand, I was there, and they needed another member, so it happened. I have to say it seemed like a very confused issue to me. The CC sortof coached the boy to stand front and center, stand up straight, etc.... and asked him to recite the law, the oath, the outdoor code and then the adults barraged the scout with a mix of questions while he stood at "attention" reciting the law + many of the questions, in my thinking were a re-test and if they weren't were demanded for no other reason than to make the scout nervous. some of the questions asked ( a few from me, and some by others) were more along the lines of exploratory to find out what the scout liked or didn't about the rank liked or doesn't about the troop were more along the lines of associating with the scout, getting to know him and more importantly getting him more comfortable in talking to adults. etc... oh, and just a minor amount of time spent reviewing the paperwork sign offs.... treated more like a formality. I have to say that i really did not like the tone of the thing and that whole re-test thing is a HUGE trip-up that folks didn't seem to get. I suspect that this is very common.

yep, I think it takes time to soul search and think of stuff, and a lot of folks just don't take that time to do it.... just find a cute story to read instead.

exactly! at some point in time, we came around........ and we at this stage of the game (2016) still need to remind ourselves that change isn't necessarily bad..... and even if it is, it is what it is....

Stosh That certainly is a way to do things.... a very good way I might add. but the thing is....it's not the only way. It's not even the only good way. You and I might not like it, but things, they are a changing. Things evolve. Sometimes aspects might get worse. Sometimes they might get better... and others might just simply be only different... if we can let go of emotions and personal paradigms, step back and observe.

one lesson to be learned that piggybacks on your furry critter story...(@Zaphod) I read an article some time ago, or was it on some documentary I watched... anyway it talked about how when a person is taking pictures they are not "in the moment" and will tend to remember much less about the experience. An example of a parent taking photos or video of a child's school performance was used. Upon reflection, and backed up by my observations since that time, I can say that this idea is spot on! Many times it is much better to forget the pictures, and just "participate" in the moment. A good lesson we could guide the scouts to discover....

I doubt if anyone here would argue directly against your points.... but as others have pointed out, that printed book you write about was once a new fangled and probably considered an unnecessary technology. Perhaps looked on as evil even.... and bseides, you can now get most books in a digital format. That is now the way many people consume the written word.... and there really isn't anything wrong with that. To me the bigger point is to step back and honestly evaluate the "why" behind our opposition to a thing. In this case, me thinks it's really more about a desire to get the attention focused on the outdoor world, and the people we are with. so, perhaps the focus needs to be placed there, rather than on the "thing" and as the articl that was linked to earlier points out, they aint going away! People have probably thinking since the beginning, that things were better "back in my day". But does that really make it so? No, I think it doesn't... just different. Ugh, my kids will never learn the Dewey decimal system.... well, so what? I'll bet at some point way back in time there were folks balking at this new waste of time they were teaching the kids in school, called the Dewey decimal system.....

well, perhaps a person wants to tie themselves a fancy paracord braided woggle in a new pattern they don't know..... or, as I plan to do this weekend if I get some time (although not on a scout camp), I plan to make up some sort of paracord handle for my yeti low ball coffee mug. Maybe I'll do a simple fishtailbraid, or perhaps a tripple spanish wrap.... I dunno.... but I figure I'll be looking online for muse and instruction.

I personally think it only becomes "too much" at which point it becomes a distraction I have never been a person that agreed with those that strictly and severely rationed and limited TV watching time back in the day. I have argued that something good can be gained by watching even the non-educational fictional TV shows. You put yourself into situations through them that you may not otherwise ever find yourself. You can experience right and wrong ways to do things, etc.... This is of course the case with the old wholesome classics, but at least to some degree with trashier shows too. and then there's the documentaries and such.... I have to believe the same might be said for at least some of the games out there too. I have noticed though a tipping point in my kids, with screen time though. Could be watching netflix or youtube on iPads, or playing games.... At some point after too much time the "addiction affects", perhaps fixation, kicks in and they get grumpy or whinny, especially when they have to put them down.... that is a problem. That time likely varies greatly from person to person I'd guess So in terms of scouting, especially considering "at camp" I figure we don't want to flirt with that fixation... but I figure if the program is a good one they won't have so much time available for it anyway... once they start having fun outside with their friends. But as a half an hour break after the last activity, or at bedtime..... I figure it this way, how is it any different than those new fangled printed paper books? With regards to the question of old or new school tools for the job, I think @Camridgeskip put it well...

I've always done the same.... He's not always gung-ho about it.... more like, uh, I dunno, I guess so.... but he says he's having fun... I'm not sure how I'll handle the time when he says no. I'll of course have a conversation, try to find out why, encourage, and so on. I don't want him to quit anything, but if it just downright stops being fun &/or beneficial.......

well put!

My thoughts are that electronics shouldn't be confiscated. Discouraged and limited, sure.... maybe. but not taken away. Our troop has the policy that they are allowed in the car on the drive out and the drive home, but they stay in the car. Using a phone for an occasional picture, bedtime reading or gaming, texting home.... why not? It's a familiar element, a distraction, a connection. If it were up to me, I would discourage regular carry of phones, for fear of damage and loss.... and I would probably encourage the scouts to come up with rules such as use in tents only except for specific photo opps.... but I would not confiscate them.... I understand the whole homesick thing and limiting the contact with home for that reason.... but we had two homesick scouts this year, and the SM let them use his own phone when they asked to call home. I even ended up lending my phone a time or two after that when a scout asked. Something I don't really like to do... but my point is our scouts weren't restricted about calling home really.... except if you consider the limitation of having to ask. and about the homesick scouts... one ended up coming home early. I think his mom didn't really want him to come anyway, so they came to get him right away. The other one was his tent mate. He wanted to go home, but his parents apearently told him to stick it out. He had a rough week and struggled a lot. even to tears over a couple meals..... but he had plenty of fun too. In the end he did ok..... and interestingly enough, I understand that this same scout is away at another week long camp now (non-scout)

I don't disagree SSSCout, but at the same time there is a balance to be found. and that tipping point is different for different folks. In my case, as I suspect also for @@mashmaster, the tipping point we're getting at is as defined by our wives & is much closer to the family than WE might define it.... Tangent #1: Better? well that opens up a subjective tangent #3 .... but perhaps, yes. My DW would likely re-position that tipping point on her scale if she thought I was doing something with ALL of the kids. Tangent #2: Don't disagree..... but it's not my opinion at question here.... it's my DW's. You know how it is, no doubt. Several times when she has felt distanced (which isn't always), she has said things that make it clear that she forgets all the things I do with and for the girls. In those times, her focus is on BOY scouts, and why I'm there and not HERE. It's her emotional perspective. She's not concerned at those times, with what "wake" I might leave in others' lives. At these times, she's looking inward to herself, and outward only to our kids. Same I suppose for @@mashmaster too.

so really the only training that remains for me (that I need or that I'm interested in doing) are the big weekend evolutions.... I want to take IOLS and wouldn't mind taking Woodbadge too some day as a student (even though I'd be much more excited about the old program as I understand it...) oh and wilderness 1st aid too. but I'm up against the exact same issue. Weekends are just so valuable And all the effort and time I already do put into scouting is but just for 1/3 of my kids in my wife's eyes. The other 2/3 being girls... If I could count me as one of the kids, I'd be up to 1/2..... but that's still only half, and the less important one to boot

thanks for posting this @@RememberSchiff. I printed the article and shared with my son. He learned a thing or two....

and for probably 99% of the time it really is just an exercise, right? We already know of any issues that would really be a factor.... such as asthma. & The doc isn't going to magically find out that he's allergic to bee stings if we didn't already know it.... so yeah, mostly a waste of time & $ in reality.... as long as known issues aren't hidden release forms and insurance information is conveyed the truly important stuff is taken care of....

we pay $5.25 for cotton shirts and $7.25 for the high tech flammable ones.... bought locally, they're single color but custom photo or design. Look good and are decent shirts..... I'm with Stosh on this one....I'd prefer to encourage the "class a" more, but that's a hill that would certainly kill me..... never gonna win that one.

yeah, that's a shame it looks like somebody put a lot of work into that a nice legacy that will disappear. I hope the author(s) is ok.

your sense of urgency does not necessarily make it mine (I'm just making the point of how a lot of folks think) I get it. I like to be organized, do things early, make sure they are correct.....really I'm among the few that will strive to get it in by the requested time but in reality almost everything is arbitrary in a way.... you determine you need a week to process. If you have only 6-1/2 days instead, is it really not gonna happen? You know we always make it work even the deadline of having the medical form in-hand when you step "on the bus", isn't real.....because odds are very good somebody could figure a way to fax it on over or email it to the camp while you are driving out there.... I don't like it, but that's the way it is....

very different scenarios, those are.... and yeah, figured you were partially joking king Ding Different scenarios.... invited..... well ok then working as a MB counselor..... makes sense inviting yourself, expecting, demanding.... this is what I have seen on occasion so I was reading with a bias...... and that's just rude in my book.... but that's just me, one man's opinion

yeah... I did plant the seed that it is possible to make your own summer camp adventure. That we don't have to go to a dining hall merit badge mill camp BUT I'll draw the line at this I am really opposed to having the scouts cook my meals or clean up my dishes. Our troop does this occasionally, and it screams WRONG to me.... The scouts are not my slaves they are a team working to support each other. & i just feel that as an adult, i should either be leading by example in doing my own & showing them from afar a good way to do it..... or doing it with the other adults to show them how to do it as a patrol.

I think the BSA could really use some injection of excitement by having a president or some other very prominent key player be a real "spy" or special forces scout. Someone for young boys to emulate. I keep going to Bear Grylss, given his connection to the brits' scouting program.... but this kind of stuff gives some interesting teeth I think to map reading, map making, and art. Another example...... in the basketry merit badge class.... why not make a fish trap instead of a pretty basket? Give it some teeth!

This seems like something that is lost from scouting..... all of the true "Scout" stuff.... (Army Scout stuff) I don't know....perhaps boys today don't get a charge about this sort of stuff but I was thinking about animal tracking the other day at summer camp. I see some mention of animal footprints in the books, but I really just don't see much interest or focus given to any of this sort of "adventure"

I think you're right Hedgehog, but not JUST for summer camp. We have a natural tendency to make things more complicated than they need to be. I'll admit I'm often guilty of that..... but I'm learning and trying all the time. This is why I have been pushing to put more of this stuff back onto the scouts where it belongs. I have been suggesting and planting the seeds with the committee, and I'm starting to putt the stuff I am responsible for as treasurer back onto the scouts. If a scout wants to go, remind HIM through the scout leadership (Scribe) that HE needs to get the required stuff from HIS parents. I have little to no intention of contacting parents directly. Parents will be copied of course if I need to for example send an email, but the email will be addressed to the scout. My hope is that this will clue the parents in more to the idea that it's up to the scout, not them..... and will clue the scouts into the idea that mommy isn't gonna do it for them.

what was on pinetreeweb?

my thoughts exactly. The problem is though, that most all dates are arbitrary to some degree or another. If the place you're going needs the forms submitted say this friday. They will almost certainly accept them Monday. Meanwhile, The volunteer doing the paperwork might want them my the week prior to have a little time to process the stuff and get it through the mail... reasonable perhaps, but it's arbitrary. and The parents will know it. It's really a no win as I see it.