blw2

I was thinking about this one comment....and then building from my own frustrations with this sort of stuff, i would add this... that they shouldn't really be encouraged to "run" at all.... I mean why do we have this fixed election cycle anyway? Why not instead just let each individual patrol figure out if or when they need a new PL.... just as Stosh is often pointing out.

oh, another story this thread reminds me of... my son was given an envelope to put spending cash in, for an upcoming school band field trip. On the envelope I was to write his name, the contact name and phone number, and so on. 1st, I gave it to him to fill out then, he came to the part were I was supposed to fill in any special direction to the chaperone (as in he's not allowed to buy souvenirs, or no candy, or whatever...) So he asked what he was supposed to put in there. I took it from him and wrote something such as this; "If he gets sick from eating too much candy, or if he spends all his money before dinner and goes hungry, it is his own fault." Gave him back the envelope.

A couple months back, my son's troop was having their first camp out since the new group of scouts had joined (my son and one other beat the bulk of the group over by a month or so) The camp was in the woods behind our CO, so it was a nice and easy drop-off. So that night, I dropped off my son and went over to shoot the bull with the SM and some of the other committee folks and let my son haul his stuff in the woods on his own. I never even walked back to the camp site. Meanwhile, it was almost funny that pretty much all of the other parents were busy helping to tote stuff, going in mumbling something about that they should go back and help little so-and-so get his tent set up..... or they need to go check to make sure he's ok, and so on... I felt pretty good about the whole situation. I could tell that my son couldn't have been happier.... and I shared a laugh with some of the other scouters about the whole thing

I pretty much agree with Stosh and qwazse (but I will qualify that I am not an experienced SM, only an energized scouter that has put a whole lot of thought and research into all of this stuff) I would add perhaps, that a bit of prep and guidance should be given to the current PLC before the big "shakeup" ... in that they should be given some clear guidelines... such as in patrols should be roughly 6-8 boys AND what the various PORs are that should be filled...both of which have already been laid out here.... and I'd add perhaps, that a bit of an outline of a "few options" should be given or pointed out to the PLC (taking great care to point out the options of structure in the handbook and so on, without bias or suggestion) I would say that if the existing patrols didn't really want to mix things up completely... As in maybe a scout or two wanted to shift to other patrols, but the core of every patrol wants to just stay together.... then they might consider things like a NSP But since your webelos are already scouts and in the troop.... and if they on the other hand wanted to totally shake everything up, throw everyone into a room to completely shake out a new set of patrols form scratch Either way, having been made aware of options they can then have some tools to consider (such as a NSP, or that patrols can stay together forever, or patrols can be completely shaken up on some fixed interval if they would rather, etc..). My thinking is that the scouts can't really come up with their best solution if they don't know the rules and the possibilities. I am definitely a minority here, but i believe in the concept of a new scout patrol _BUT ONLY when defined as a patrol of scouts that all just happen to be new. (not this forced arrangement as the BSA is currently defining it) I have yet to read or hear any points that sway me from that idea.... that there is nothing wrong with a group of same or similar aged scouts if that's what shakes out. In fact I contend that it often probably makes sense for all or most of these new crossovers for example to stay in a permanent patrol together.... they are all similar age, with similar interest and abilities, and probably would have the most fun "hanging' with each other. Every failure I have read about seem to be failures in implementation of what should IMO be a free and natural thing.

just thought I'd share a story to set the stage, my house is in a developed neighborhood, but my lot joins up to a wooded area on two sides. One continuous & very thick tangled mess of palmetto and briers for the first 10-20 feet or so in. Basically impenetrable. For a few months now, my kids have been asking me to cut a path through, like a did several winters back with a rented walk behind bush hog (in an effort to thin out the fire hazard primarily). When I did it before the kids were all too little to care. For some reason, the woods are calling them now. I kept promising "one of these days", hoping I might make time some weekend but realizing we probably never will have the time... So anyway, I came home a few days ago to some excited kids. They had started a trail! Even my 2nd grade daughter and her friend, as well as my Pre-K daughter, were in on the act. It wasn't just my Scout son and his non scout friends. It was clear they had been working long and hard. I figured it would be a dying interest... but it has continued every chance they get. They are excited every day to show me their progress. They now have a plan to make a fort of some sort back there, by lashing together some pine poles! There was even talk of camping back there in tents over the weekend! So anyway, it comes to mind that this is EXACTLY the dynamic that old BP himself tapped into. I'm tickled that they are away from the computer screens, and doing something they can't experience anywhere else. My son surely isn't getting this level of woodsmanship in scouts, nor is my daughter in Girl Scouts. Son's friends aren't in scouts and aren't from a camping family so its good for them too.

huh? as in a raw egg? I think I've heard of eggshells to settle out grounds in cowboy coffee, but I have no experience with it.... On another note stosh, I picked up two tin cups a few weeks ago at a shop over in St Augustine...one for me and one for my son. I was thinking of you. Some day I might cook a whole camping trip's worth of meals in it.... just for fun. They also had a nice selection of iron trivets and rods for fire cooking in the vintage style as you've described (although I think it was targeted to a bit further back in history than the civil war...). Seemed to be by a local blacksmith. I almost picked up a few things, but decided against it.

now now, TAHAWK.... I realize that it's pert-near impossible for any entrepreneurial company to do 100% USA materials, construction, and assembly.... year and years of bad policy have pretty much cemented that. We all know that. But if you can find a product that that does as much as they reasonably can, I say support it.... don't undermine it. I'd bet if you sew on one of those World Crest patches, you'd be good to go. And as far as the uniform police at camps and such..... I can see an out of uniform type give a person a hard time, but turn them away? I'd find that hard to believe!....

I used to wear crocs all the time.... have several pair IMO, they are comfortable for daily knocking around.... but I slowly learned to not like them for extended walking.... as in shopping with the wife or whatever. They also don't always provide traction on even slightly slippery surfaces and I have gotten poked right through the sole a few times with some long thorns and such... Now, I still wear them a lot, but only for times when i need to step outside around the house.... stuff like that.

yeah, in the blog I was referring to, the guy sang nothing but praise. Having hiked rim to rim several times before in traditional hiking boots, he described that "oh my dogs are barking" feeling at the end of the day.... you know it, we've all felt it.... and how with these things there was none of that! There was lots of discussion about how it takes a lot of time to develop the muscles in your feet and legs, that have gone weak in using regular shoes..... and the way of taking a step is very different.... but he made a great case for the benefits of it all. Sorta like that barefoot survival guy that used to be on TV Part of me really wants to try it.... but I agree.. those things are ugly! Still, maybe someday I might go to REI and try them on.

ok, here u go buy USA http://www.keenfootwear.com/americanbuilt

well thanks a lot, Tahawk! way to pop a bubble! oh well, I knew it was too good to be true!

The thing about is accepting a reward is, at least in my thinking, ok. It's not like it was asked for.... or demanded /negotiated in any way. If an item is returned no string attached, then if the grateful person wants to reciprocate to help them feel better why take that opportunity away from them.... and get a little perk yourself too?

Perfect way to explain it! thanks Hedgehog! Yeah, I'd rate the average selection for Keurig lower than Starbucks.... but the better ones I like better so compared to my favorites in Keurig (a good Italian Roast, or Gevalia), I'd rate the Via packets I've tried a good bit lower than 0.5 down.... but I get your point! The thing about the via I dislike the most is having to bring separate cream and sugar.... so these maxim things sound perfect. I'll order some up for my next camping trip! Hey, I'm man enough to be comfortable wearing socks with sandals, so leave me alone! Life is too short to drink bad coffee...

I'm actually not intending to use them as water shoes so much, as hiking shoes. The ones I ordered for me, are fully enclosed, but the fabric lets light through. It's only that the particular ones I tried on and liked happened to be that way. There's actually very little difference between them and my Soloman hiking shoes.... except they are more comfortable and much more ventilated. I'd say the uppers aren't quite as durable so I'm not thinking of them for hiking seriously rough or technical stuff..... but for sauntering down a maintained trail they should be perfect. Lightweight and quick to dry. I'd have no problem of the ones with more open side holes for me... and therefore I'm ok with them for my son too... I just don't want him red flagged as he steps off the bus at summer camp. Valid point about the side injury potential. That was one of my first thoughts when I started considering them, but I've hiked miles in true sandals much more open than these without too much problem. I read about a father and daughter that hiked the grand canyon rim to rim in those 5 finger toe-shoes, and these offer better protection that those I'd guess! Good thing I'm in Florida.... and that I'm not trying to impress anyone with my fashion sense either, so any concerns about style have little weight with me.

interesting. Think I'll take a look to see where mine came from... My canvas shorts have had two failures of the cargo pocket stitching. The first time I almost lost my wallet! and I am a relatively light / infrequent wearer.... I knew the store would stand by it, but our store is far away from me and I NEVER go in that direction so it was just easier for me to run them through my sewing machine. The first time I only repaired. If i'm remembering correctly, the next failure I just went ahead and re-enforced both pockets entirely. anyway, besides the excessive fading from washing and this failure.... so far I'm otherwise happy with the uniforms. I do wish though it was made in USA..... or even assembled in USA. on another note in shopping for hiking shoes, I found this one made in USA http://www.chacos.com/US/en/home I think it might be only some models, but it's at least something!

OK, here's a question. Are the shoes like I've linked to here, considered shoes, or are they sandals? .... well really what do you THINK the camp officials would say at most council reservations? Sandals are specifically banned at the out of state council summer camp we're attending. I think they are at our local reservation too. Only allowed in the shower. BUT I'm really buying into Andrew Skurka's suggestion to ditch the waterproof boots, and instead go light weight and quick drying. Bonus too, as I live in a warm climate. These water shoes really caught my eye, and in my judgement they are perfect hiking shoes for less than technical trails ones like this one, or similar http://www.amazon.com/Chaco-Mens-OutCross-Outdoor-Sneakers/dp/B01159VKW6/ref=pd_sim_309_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=511ggn1moQL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1DG1RHHTXZKSF8QMMNRY or http://www.amazon.com/Arroyo-Hiking-Sandal-Slate-Bronze/dp/B003Z4JOWS/ref=sr_1_8?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1461098526&sr=1-8&nodeID=7141123011&keywords=keen+water+shoes So I ordered a similar pair for me. but I also need to buy some hiking shoes for my son before summer camp. Would they work?

Now Stosh, I really doubt if everything was just peachy for generations before... and only just started going down hill when you reached adulthood.... Your parents almost certainly said the same thing, as did your grand parents, etc.... BUT I'll say this.... I get your point and I'll admit to having some of the same feelings.... even though I'm a half or whole generation down.... (guessing, I really don't remember how old you said you are....) Eagle 94-A1 I was going to suggest, that in your advisory role as committee member, might be a good idea for you to remind your SM that ASM advisers mentioned in pint one, really do need to be reminded to not turn the patrols into WEBELOS dens.... just sayin...

How about a JetBoil and a Starbucks Via packet? Actually, I found a really good Korean instant coffee that has the cream and sugar in it already for a fraction of the price of Starbucks here: http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B003VCULUS Hedgehog (or anyone that knows) Any idea what the difference is between that Maxim coffee you linked to, vs the white gold vs the original? I noticed the one you linked to says "mild" I tend to like a bolder/stronger roast with cream but only a little bit of sugar. I did a quick search but came up blank re. what the differences are.... Oh, and how would you rate these against the Via....ignoring the price?

That pretty much echoes most of the other advice I've gotten.... and how my gut is telling me to go too! As a follow-up to my earlier post about Junior Admin rights I contacted troopwebhost and asked. Apparently a new idea that hasn't been asked before, but he did say it was an interesting idea. The more I think of it, I think it's an outstanding idea for a great tool..... the sandbox / approval process For all things "paperwork".... such as attendance, money, permission slips, etc....

Agreed....at least in theory BALOO's focus is different.... teaching different rules and with a different purpose. I still want to half chuckle when i think about my BALOO course. Most of the students could have taught the class too..... silly requirements... The discussions about rules, tour permits, and such were the most value, except to say many of the students knew more about those processes.... and it was really more of a debate about how silly it all is. I can't comment on IOLS yet, since I have yet to find a local course without a personal conflict.... Not required for my present position so I'm not scrambling for it though... My suggestions to the OP.... Spend a lot of time NOW getting more up to speed with how a troop operates... or should operate. ....really learn what the patrol method is and how the boy lead concept fits into it. & Read Baden Powell's Aides to Scoutmastership to understand the basis for a lot of this stuff. Spend time at places like this forum, scoutmastercg.com, etc.... My experience was ADL, ACM, CM, then back to ADL to round out my son's 2nd year of WEBELOS..... all the while I supported the DL as best I could, and often acted as the "experience" since I spent much more time reading and getting up to speed on BSA and the program.... It wasn't until that last partial year that I really started digging into this troop level stuff though, and that is a regret! In hind sight, I really wish that we would have run the den more like a proper patrol. Regardless of what the program says or requires, that in my opinion should be the primary focus during WEBELOS. It would help train the scouts and the parents as well as to how things SHOULD function... oh, and I think a book by Clarke Green should be required reading.... "So Far So Good"... to help a person in your position better understand all of this.

I made Tenderfoot, or maybe it was just Scout..... where does that put me on that pecking order

build up in each patrol's bag, then when it got to be "too much", they found a need for the money... but I can't remember if they said pizza or some special activity like CalicoPenn's "Treat it like a Christmas Club account" or if it was used to buy some sort of needed equipment for the troop "What's the rationale behind the QM handing the funds and not the Scribe? " "Sorry, scribe not QM. My brain is fried after work today." I figured it was a case of each patrol not having it's own scribe. That seems to be a less frequently filled patrol level POR... as best as I can tell, most troops are more like ours.... the patrols have PL and APL... and the patrol as a whole selects or elects grub masters and other PORs as needed and rotates things around... and then the Troop has things like QM, SCRIBE, etc... I'm not saying I think this is the way it SHOULD be, mind you.... "My question would be whether the PLC controls da budget, eh? If you're goin' to teach kids real responsibility, give 'em a real task. Let da PLC control the budget and manage the fundraisin'. Let the Scribe be junior treasurer with real access to the books." "Let the PL's collect $ for food or fees for the next campout, perhaps. And if a PL wants to do that by electronic funds transfer or whatnot, more power to him!" yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out how to balance and steer towards. At this point, the scouts aren't involved in budgeting at all, as far as I know. I've not sat in on a PLC so I don't know if things are ever discussed.... but one things for certain, if they are it's very high level stuff since they don't have the data... @@Beavah, since you've been AWOL for a while, you've been out of the loop so you've likely not seen my fairly recent thread asking how other troop treasurers are working all this sort of stuff. I'd be interested in more info about what your troop and treasurer are doing with finances. (not just Beavah, anyone else for that matter too!)

Let me run something by you good folks.... Where do you stand on making the scouts bring in $1 a week? As you know, I'm transitioning to treasurer role, been a long process getting the bank account s re-set before I take it. Anyway, So our troop has a custom.... clearly adult driven and I'm fairly sure an artifact form the old pure- adult corps.... Each patrol has one of those little zippered cash bags. The bags are kept by a committee member and brought to each meeting where each patrol gets their bag, and the PL (or someone) collects $1 from each scout. It's sort of loosely tied to the scribe and attendance, but it doesn't look like it's clean to an adult level of performance anyway... So we have these bags of cash every now and then the cash gets deposited into the general troop fund. The stated purpose of this whole game is to "teach the scouts responsibility" Now I have to point out that this is not the annual troop dues or activity fees... this is just a silly token fund. It adds up of course, but it's not the real money. Several times now they have tried to hand these things off to me for safe keeping, and so far I've danced away cleverly.... oh, I'll take them eventually, once I'm up fully running.... but honestly I'm trying to stay away as long as I can. At this weeks meeting I asked again, so why are we doing this?.... and got the responsibility schpeel, I really had to bite my tongue about giving them real responsibility.... mainly because a few parents and scouters in ear shot were all so serious about it. So, I'm trying to figure out how I eventually want to try to steer this. I'm thinking about keeping it going for a while, but let each patrol hold the bags (Pl or whoever they want). Maybe each week or each month give me as treasurer a balance sheet, and when it gets over some threshold take the money for deposit... (or maybe let them spend it on something for their patrols) but honestly what I hope to work for is letting the scouts be responsible for handling all the money in a similar way (campout payments and the rest) What are your thoughts?

but with all due respect to Stosh, I have always hated that phrase. "with all due respect.." becasue what it really means is "I WANT to respect you, but right now I don't, and my next sentence will be something that disrespects you." Personally, I like Krampus' "I've got this Mr. Jones...." just semantics

good stuff... but not totally on with regards to my situation, close though You are right on, it's a hard and tough road to change. first off, I'm not sure I would say the our program is successful 100% and honestly, I'm fairly sure that the SM's vision is at least pretty close to the ideal I imagine, but he's not being pushy or firm about making the shift.... or perhaps he knows but can't. So it's not really that it's not the program that son wants, he knows no different and so far is having fun and he is growing from it.... so in that way it IS successful The issue in my case (& I suspect many other folks too) is that I know the program isn't "all that it could be". Do I want it all for my son, and his friends... sure I do. That just aint realistic though. Regardless, while it might MY problem as Eagledad put so well, I'm not in a position to affect real and meaningful change over the short haul for my son. What I can do, and others like me too, is to make a difference in little ways, hopefully helping other adults to see the light. While I still don't really classify it as damage or harm, I CAN see the point that in not doing it to the ideal they are in a way doing indirect harm... just as in Eagledad's story, a good example is not being set in some ways.