T2Eagle

If I understand what you're asking, it's about situations like Beav described where you have a CO and a separate "Friends of"... corporation that owns assets like a boat or a bus. How that would work is that they are actually separate legal entities, neither is a subsidiary of the other, and they exist for different reasons, it just happens that both provide a benefit to a scout unit. The CO is the same as it ever is. Let's use as an example a church that charters a troop; it controls the troop, owns the troop stuff, etc. The "Friends of" corporation is its own entity, it doesn't have a charter with BSA, it owns its own assets --- importantly these assets are not subject to either the BSA or CO control. The "Friends of" entity then magnanimously lets the troop use its assets. The "Friends of" corp probably has a board of directors that looks remarkably similar to the troop committee. It's worth noting that this is an entirely different situation than a "Friends of" set up specifically to charter a unit. It's also worth noting that none of this has anything to do with getting an EIN or setting up a bank account.

A few cautions for you. First, make sure that as a troop you're actually willing to do things differently if that's the feedback you get. I have seen organizations, for profit and non profit both, gather data like this and then spend all their energy explaining why nothing can actually change. If you're not willing to respond don't ask because people will be more unhappy if they are broadly ignored. Next, remember you cannot make everyone happy, you may get conflicting ideas, you may get too many good ideas. Make sure everyone has realistic expectations that even good ideas may not be able to be enacted --- all resources, including time and energy are finite. When I took over as SM a previous SM warned me that a lot of people would have a lot of good ideas about things I should do. Finally, be transparent, let people knowmthe results and let them know what if anything you do with the information.

Have fun, come back and tell us what you heard that you didn't know before, or what you heard that was either different from what you had heard before or different from what you thought you knew.

The gentleman who handles our checking account can barely do email, we're a medium size troop and I don't think we would save much time taking credit cards. We would never get near 100% so we would always be processing checks. Not sure about troop accounts, but I haven't physically deposited a check in my own account in about a year. Take a picture on the phone, press the right buttons, write deposited on the check and put it in the file.

I agree with Beav that advancement isn't the issue participation is. With very few exceptions a Troop should be providing an opportunity for every scout to camp once a month. There are a lot of ways to do this, most troops just do things that everyone in the troop can both handle and enjoy, Krampus' troop provides a good model of having varying levels of activity within the same outing. Troops that support, truly support, patrols camping independently of the troop is another, but truly support means that the leaders, SM, ASMs, CM etc,. provide the necessary adult participation and troop resources for those trips not just a lip service of "sure, you can do that if you figure everything out for it." Your son's role is to understand what his scout leaders tell him and he should try to understand the program as they see it. You can have conversations with the adult leadership; see if what you have experienced is an anomaly or is this the pattern you can expect to continue. The point of Boy Scouts is to achieve our aims through a camping program. If you're not camping how can you be achieving those aims? The BSA talks about first class/first year, and points to statistics that show that scouts who engage in advancement at that level stay with the program longer. A year is ambitious but doable with our troop, but I have always thought that what underlies the statistics is that advancement is a natural outgrowth of camping, if you camp you will learn the skills needed to advance, and so it is the going camping, the getting out in the woods and having fun, that gets young men to engage in and stay with the program. If the troop your in isn't providing your son the opportunities he needs to do scouting then I strongly encourage him, with you, to check out other troops in the area that may be better able to provide him the opportunities the program should have to offer.

Have him be a College Reserve Scouter or whatever the term is and come on campouts and help out. Manage the other adult scouters so they don't cause problems. The scouts love guys like this, and that's what's important.

We almost always naturally form into two groups. There are real differences in ability between scouts, it doesn't matter if the difference is from age or conditioning, and there are also just differences in desire. What is the compelling reason for staying as one group, "just because we're all one group" has never seemed to me to be a self evident reason. Most of the time the point of the hike is the enjoyment of the journey not just the getting from one place to another, so why make one group miss that enjoyment. Some guys will enjoy, and/or will naturally just moving faster, and some guys will be happier with the saunter and dawdle. As long as they're getting where they're supposed to be, what's the problem, there is no ONE CORRECT PACE.

I agree with Calico, the chances that a freshly built bird house will be used within the first month of being up are really low. I have several bird houses in my yard built when my sons were, I think, working on Bears. It was a couple years before they were inhabited by anything, maybe just in time for a Merit Badge. Two of the houses now have wrens most summers, one came down in a storm, and one was occupied part time by a squirrel. He should talk to his counselor; I think he fulfilled the requirement. Keep an eye on the house it could have occupants sooner or later.

Isn't there a physics problem with your initial example? If you ad water to the beans in a bag, unless you don't seal the bag there's no way the beans expand any bigger than the container. The beans can only expand to the extent that they absorb the volume of water added. They don't, I don't think, form crystalline structures like ice, and certainly cannot do that if the bag is sealed. This story has actually bothered me for a couple days and I just couldn't put my finger on why until now.

The one endorsement I will give Crocs is for medicinal purposes. If you ever have Plantar Fasciitis, wear crocs every minute that you're home --- never take a step in bare feet, and they'll speed the healing process. Sure they're ugly, but like that worn out shirt your spouse wants to throw out, they're perfect as long as you're not seen in public wearing them.

Rather than ban sandals our camp, and the troop, bar open toed & open heeled anything. So what you posted and things like crocs (with a back strap) would be fine with us. The ban on open toes isn't so much about dropping stuff on them it's that they snag and slip and lead to twisted ankles and face plants. I wear Keenes most of the time, starting about a week ago when the snow melted up until it gets cold again. At summer camp I'll wear them in the camp site or for short walks. If I'm putting any miles at all on I put on boots for the extra all around support.

I'm curious David, is your scout organization made up entirely of students from your school? The cyber bullying/social media issues I would put in the same category as physical assaults and similar wrong doing. You mentioned earlier about your school/CO having a reputation to protect. That's always been a curious concept to me; I've always been skeptical of the idea that institutions were deserving of that kind of deference. My concern is always with the the people I encounter, and in any conflict I might see between the best interests of any person versus the best interests of any institution I'll pick the human every time.

Interesting question, outside of the examples you gave I believe it would be inappropriate for me to second guess the decisions someone makes as a parent, and I would consider it hubristically presumptuous for someone to second guess mine. David CO gives alcohol as an example. In my, and most states, parents can allow a minor to consume alcohol in their presence. My own sons have had an occasional champagne toast at a family wedding and a glass of beer or wine with dinner at our family reunions. It would never dawn on me to think that was any business of anyone besides mine and my wife's. I was part of a conversation once where this came up regarding the Jesuit school they attended and the priest/administrator there said they certainly wouldn't think anything of it. Closer I think to the topic that was being discussed, I've told scouts and parents about the ban on laser tag and paintball. If they get the same people that would have been a patrol together and go play laser tag as a non scout activity that's no business of mine.

Luckily, since it's your PLs signing off on this rather than you, they have probably long since realized the wisdom of qwazse's view and just have seen no need to bring you into it.

Krampus' advice is spot on. I'll just add that my recommendation for how to "learn what your boys will learn" is to, before the training, get a copy of the scout handbook, really familiarize with the Tenderfoot through First Class requirements, and then thoroughly read the associated pages for those requirements from the handbook. Think of IOLS in terms of how you will help your scouts master these skills.

I'm always a little jealous when I hear someone make a better argument than I can in favor of my own beliefs. Thank you Beavah.

If you're really only doing this for the sake of tasking the boys with remembering something every week then why not choose something else to remember: a stick of gum, a pencil, maybe a marble. If you want boys to be responsible then give them something meaningful to be responsible for, otherwise it's just busy work.

I've spent 7 years training my scouts that this is their process: their privilege and their responsibility. The first time we took this away from the adults and gave it to the scouts was difficult, but they've gotten better with each year. We do the planning on an early winter campout. This year I asked them if they needed me, they said probably not, but we'll come get you if we do. A couple hours later they came to get me to tell me what we were doing for the year. I guess I could try to take it back over, but I'm not sure they'd go along with it.

If I read the original question correctly there is somehow a vote by the committee after the SMC as to whether the scout even gets to have a BOR. That is so wrong a process that I'm not sure whether it could even be fixed by a unit so clueless about how wrong the process is. My suggestion is 1) think hard about another troop; 2) try to have a gown up conversation with the SM, Committee Chair, etc., just to see if they understand how far off they are; 3) If they're not willing to move back towards the program, get in touch with a DE and push the issue, then 4) think really hard about another troop.

"What's a mouse?" says Mrs. T2E, who no longer owns any device that isn't a touch screen. (She gets weirdly exasperated when I hand her my laptop to look at something and the screen won't respond no matter how often she swipes across it.) ETA, I sometimes claim I'm using voice recognition software, but really I'm just arguing out loud with other idiots on the interwebs who can't actually hear me.

My experience is the same as Krampus, have had pros whose sons were in the unit and they took on leadership roles just like everyone else. Their distinguishing feature was that when they were with the Pack or Troop they didn't really want to be seen as a pro and avoided situations and conversations that would lead them to switch hats away from volunteer and back to pro. Most units have volunteers that arise organically by having some existing relationship with the unit: former youth member, parent, member of CO. If he wants to be involved with his church's unit that's great, if he just wants a unit I'd be more skeptical if I was in that unit.

So Richard B., as my old law professor used to chide us, "The clarity of your answer escapes me." Are you saying you didn't actually have any actual data or information but decided to ban an activity that could be a fun way to help be physically fit, or you do have such information (my quick perusal of CPSC didn't hit on anything) but feel that we either wouldn't be able to understand it or just don't deign to share it with us because we're just not worth the trouble?

Maybe there is an unacceptable risk to this activity, and maybe there isn't. No one here is providing any data to demonstrate that it isn't risky, they're just making assertions. The real problem is that National also isn't providing us any data. There's this wonderful thing called the internet and hyperlinks. Surely there's a white paper of some sort that shows what the data is and what they based their decision on, or maybe there isn't and the decision is based on the same emotional basis and unsupported assertions being laid out here for the notion that it's safe. Richard B, you out there anywhere? Can you give us some actual facts that could help us understand why this is being done. When you don't trust people with data, they'll assume yours is no better than theirs, and they're as likely to go with their own gut despite your best wishes. That's the unintended consequence of not trusting your own members.

Peregrinator, I believe you're misreading the Hohfeld Right-Duty Correlative with regards to states and their citizens. The duty is imposed upon the state, the right is an entitlement of the citizen. The state has a duty to protect its citizens, the citizens have a right to be protected by the state. Rights and duties are about relationships between parties. You do not have both a right and duty with respect to someone or something, you have either a right OR duty with respect to another party.

Our council gives "wolf claws" or something like that to youth who complete NYTLT. Essentially something that looks kinda like WB beads. These are doodads I don't think it's anything either official or in violation of anything.