SSScout

My favorite local restaurant still has peach cobbler (with ice cream), but you have to ask it to go, .

*sigh* another candidate for the Darwin award ; https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/12/us/woman-burned-fell-yellowstone-trnd/index.html

Parents not overly supervising their Scouts? Allowing, even ENCOURAGING them to go exploring on their own? Must be a new concept for some. For some... What a concept. https://www.atmuseum.org/1936-boy-scout-thru-hike.html

Once upon a time, I held the position of "First Assistant Everything Else". Even had a badge of office. My wonderful wife was the Cub Scout Day Camp Director. Son was a Wolf. (much later, an Eagle. Another story...) I went and got Archery Range Safety Officer trained, and "did the Range" many years. Scout Son even grew up to help. Later, his Troop wanted to do archery, so we arranged with a private Archery Club to visit their range (archery Merit Badge, among other things). They had Scout Leaders and abided with all BSA rules, so it was a good thing. Before we went, Scoutson asked me if he could do a Safety Talk with the Troop. I said sure, "you know my methods", I'll watch. He did a good job, but I thought he had neglected some items, so I interrupted and spoke up. Later that evening, Scoutson gently chastised me about how I had embarrassed him by publicly (!) interferring with his talk, that he had not yet mentioned the things I interjected. I realized what I had done, and promised not to be so "parenty" again. I tried hard not to. Scoutson became "THE" Totin' Chip Instructor for the Troop. Oh, and the Archery Camp was a large success.

The alleged Rule of 25 hasn't been around for awhile, if ever. As is often asked, "show where it is written". There are several Faith Awards that the BSA allows and to my knowledge, the named faith has few Charter Orgs, if any, listed in the BSA ranks. Deny Wiccan faith awards? Well, maybe not allow on the uniform officially. But again, where is the rule ?

I always liked the authoritative sound they made closing. Gotta practice my morse . . .

History that needs to be remembered. Here in Pandemic land, Ken Burns is a source of much enlightenment. His documentaries on the Civil War, Baseball, and specifically the Viet Nam War are well worth the effort. https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/

Oscar, right. Thank you for the correction. I guess it boils down to visual vs useful vs tradition. A uniform is meant to identify the wearer as a member of a group. Note the recent posting from our German brother Scout.

Aha... this changes things. The mom submitted the pics, not the Scouts? I am not familiar with some of the technology involved, admittedly. If you can say for certain the pics were taken in a certain way, perhaps you, not your Scout should approach the MBC.

This "debate" goes back to that debacle with Yve St. Larent (spelling? ) back in the 70's when for some god forsaken reason, the BSA decided they needed to "update" the uniform, and so asked that fashion decider, Mssr Larent to redesign the Scout uniform. The short sleeves gained cuffs, the no collar gained a collar, the pockets got smaller, the long sleeve shirt was (I think) abandoned, the material became softer and lighter (and more snag prone) and the necker shrunk from the usual (then ) 36" or larger (either fully square or on a side triangle) to a polite 24" on a side ONLY triangle. It became a cravat, a fashion accessory, rather than the possible tool previously mentioned. As a fashion accessory, the necker became superfluous, and gradually became "optional", rather than something a Scout might need to have. Slides/woggles became (at least for Cubs) a REQUIRED profit item. I wore one yellow necker and one Cub slide thru my 5 years of Cubs. When I joined the Troop, I was presented with the Troop Necker, a large one, with some ceremony. It was noted that the necker was designed by Scouts in the Troop and had some important history behind it. It identified the Troop at events. Need to have ? Did I say that? Yep. Originally, in Pleisticene Scout time, it was encouraged to wear the uniform (If your family could afford it) with the necker because it was a piece of expected, included gear in a Scout's kit. The whole uni was intended for camping, hiking, special events (patrol a parade?) , it was not intended merely as ceremonial. Then came YSL. I have an old book, "Matching Mountains With The Boy Scout Uniform" by Edward F. Reimer from 1929. It lists no fewer than 55 different uses for the necker, from identification in games (tie around the arm ) to first aid (sling, bandage, ankle support), to signal flag, dust mask (!), and horse bridle . Yes, the slide was intended to allow the necker to be QUICKLY removed for use. And some of the older slides in my collection are noticeably larger. That tradition, that historical reference (if not the actual utility) is what is lost when the necker is reduced in size and reduced to "optional". That red necker of my yoooth with the dusty boots labeled ""ALWAYS ON THE GO 759"" has several small tears and holes in it where it was turned into a wigwag flag or tied onto an ankle for Capture the Flag Tough cotton. Friendship knot? That I know was first intended to be tied low on the necker so the whole thing can be whipped off to trade with others at the World Jamboree, so I was told by a fellow some years ago. It lends itself for that purpose. Big Necker on Cubs? They can grow into it. We did. Small necker on Scouts and Scouters? It is a cravat, and on a tall man or woman, looks like . . . . a cravat, not a tool or tradition worn proudly to remind us of what Scout was and (as if it ever wasn't) could be again .

Ditto. There are too many ways this could be done. There are diplomatic ways to approach this, but your Scout should not be seen as accusing another Scout of not really "doing his best". If the MBC is worth his/her salt, they will ask the proper questions of the candidates. MBs are supposed to be a learning experience, yes? Once the blue card is signed, the MB is passed, no further discussion is proper. I would counsel my Scout to do HIS best , and be proud of his accomplishment. Maybe he will see his Scout buddies later and, around the campfire so to speak, discuss their techniques and approaches to the requirements. Encourage him to study the work of other successful photogs, Mathew Brady, Margaret Bourke-White, Edward Steichen, Ansel Adams come to mind.

Guten tag, wie gehts? Welkomen zu Scouter dot com..... In Germany, I could understand how someone of a certain mindset might try to connect a Pfadfinder mit die Hitler Jungen. Your unfortunate history needs to be remembered and dealt with. Here in the US of A, Scouting has sometimes been thought to be part of our military. It is important to politely disabuse (explain how it is wrong) that idea , both with words and actions. Ignorance must be forgiven, when possible, yes? Education is a blessing. The uniform should look different. Ours is decidedly not military, in my opinion. You should compare how your present uniform is or is not similar to that unfortunate "other organization", and try to adjust it thereby. Make sure your symbols are markedly different. It is well known that Hitler did not agree with the ideals of Scouting and actively suppressed it. His ideals were not Scouting's ideals. Make that plain. Let your life show that difference. I hope my comments have helped. Auf wiedersehn, sehe sie auf der spur ?

I ask for peach cobbler and get a request to participate in a political poll.

It's been a long time since I went down to Kensington and drove that stickshift Rambler around the National Guard Armory. Twice. I (used to) teach driving and safety to our new bus drivers before I retired, so I ended up teaching our Yearly Meeting Summer Camp counselor/bus drivers. Most of them had never driven anything larger than a Toyota Corolla, so it was a fun thing. I would set up cones in a big parking lot for a slalom course and manuevering practice. The scientific term is "proprioception", the ability to reach out and grab something : your brain knows where your arm/hand is, your eyes see/know where the glass of milk is, and makes that connection without conscious effort. Same thing in driving . Knowing where the bumper and wheel is in respect to the curb/wall/street sign/pole allows one to drive without hitting something and changing the shape of your motor conveyance .Many a cone was "killed". On The Road practice was a challenge sometimes, but the kid (!) would sometimes thank me afterward, teaching from the "Smith System" perspective. Repeat after me: "If it looks like a railroad crossing, I will treat it like a railroad crossing." Presto, so to speak, you have a Class B CDL with Passenger Endorsement. Good for a part time, fall back job, if your MA in philosophy doesn't work out. Over the years, I got to know which testing sites here in Murlin were busy, available, which had sympathetic examiners, which had examiners with chips on their shoulders. It takes some time to get really good, with the proper attitude , to be a safe driver, but it starts with the confident ability to aim your vee-hic-kull thru spaces just barely able to accommodate it. That said, I was amazed a few years ago to learn that Murlin would no longer require nascent drivers to demonstrate (!!) the ability to parallel park. My bus drivers would still be required to demonstrate that skill (with a forty foot long bus !)., but not the kid in the Corolla. Defensive driving took on a whole new meaning. I have seen driver training machines, but one must still do it in the real world. I had one trainee, a petite young woman, who became very good at everything I had to teach her. We went to the examining site and unfortunately it was pouring down rain. The examiner was very sympathetic, gave her every "break" as I watched. He stood out in the rain in his official slicker, but my student couldn't even SEE the cones to drive around, much less avoid them. We came back two days later and she passed all the tests easily. Virtual reality. We used to laugh about our bus system drivers inability to "phone their work in". Will our Scouts be allowed to "phone in" their outdoor experience?

"Snowplow " parents. I like that.....

Desert rat77: Amen to much of what you say. Please remember, too, the Scoutmasters and Cubmasters of that time (and before) were generally part of the "Greatest Generation", they had been thru stuff they did not want their kids to endure, but still wanted them to be able to endure. Yep, I slept under canvas, made my own tent/tarp of 8mil black plastic, duct tape and hand set grommets. totally enclosed, bug proof tents weren't readily available yet. 6-12 was used, alot. My M4 plywood packframe (Koean war surplus) weighs more than the whole pack our Troop Scout takes out for a weekend. The GI wool blanket I used for summer camp is mothproofed and still hanging in my closet, iron on name tag in the corner. Greenbar Bill's column spoke to the Scout, not to the Scoutmaster or Committee chair or COR. I read that.....

Well, perhaps he is trying to be true to the Scout Law. A Scout Is Clean, and there is nothing much cleaner than a disenffected key board.

A Scoutmaster in self quarantine ?

Thankee mate, now I can sleep better.😚

I've been waiting for SOMEONE to correct the thread title.

If the code geeks can arrange it, Whittlin' Chip, Totin Chip and Fire Safety/Building might be done with Wii.... Didn't we have Smell-o-Vision and Sensarround and Cinerama some years back? And that Golfing video game? I've even seen a bowling version and the clack of pins at the end of the alley.... Don't even need to heft a 10 pound ball.

Well, I tried to respond to this wonderful memory before but router trouble prevented. This is the kind of personal adventure we need to remember. It is what made our Gparents and parents so wonderful. It is the kind of expedition that today gives the lawyers teeth grinding angst. One can google month long Scout adventures that involve ONLY the Scouts. I remember reading about a dozen NYC Scouts set out on the AT, supported by adult supply drop off every so often,I seem to remember 6 make it thru, this in the 1930's. I will see if I can find it again. Would any one sanction such a thing now adays? According to strict reading of BSA script, a Scout Patrol should not (cannot?) even meet together at Panera without a "two deep" adult presence. Go explore a rock quarry? "Not if we know about it." Hike a five mile trail , as a group (virus not withstanding), without an adult trailing/leading with a GPS equipped emergency beacon? Our Scouts are so conditioned at school (and in Scouting?) that they are reticent to raise their hand, discuss, give an opinion, but will wait for the teacher/ASM to TELL them the where/what/when. Ya want to know why BSA is seen as on the skids? It is not only the poor decisions about youth protection made 40 years ago, or the number of high (?!) paid execs, or the helicopter parent personnae or the selling off of camps, or the cutesy uniform choices or poor PR .... it is also , to large degree, the loss of BSA's adventure image . Why are (some) young females wanting to join BSA? The BSA has been living on it's past glory (yes, getting dirty and falling down rocks and trying to find one's way BY YOURSELF) . That is what folks want to see BSA as being, but . . . What has it become? What is it ,,,, really ? "All Scouting is local" . For sure. If we define a successful Scout Unit as one that attracts and retains members (Scouts !), the successful Troops/Packs exhibit what behavior? Can National see that and reinforce it ?

What do the Scouts care about what name is on the left sleeve patch? There might be some nostalgia about the camp they attended, and when that is sold to correct somebody's accounting problem , the Troops and Packs and Crews may have some re-planning to do. That seems to be the biggest problem, the adult's need to pay bills and meet payroll. If the camp property can't be made to pay it's way, the Councils can be merged to lay off some DEs and Camp Directors and Rangers and shuffle some CSEs and RDs to show a good profit/loss sheet. The Scouts that have already passed thru might not be affected, but the Scouts yet to be will NOT have the chances that you and I old timers had, and THAT's the real pity. When I attended Camp Roosevelt (which was sold in the 1970's to purchase the Goshen Scout Reservation) on Chesapeake Bay, there were alot less Scouts around then there are now, and evidently a lot more Camps. Now, we decry the loss of Scouts from membership, but there is still many more Scouts NOW than THEN in need of places to camp and swim and shoot arrows safely. What happens to them if the properties are sold and the Councils merged "to save money"? Our goal, at least judging from alot of the discussion in this chat room, , is to get MORE youth into Scouting so as to give them that advantage. Merging Councils does not solve that problem. It solves the adults' balance sheet problem, but not that problem.

The Local Councils are chartered by the National Council, rather like a restaurant franchise. The Council meets the branding requirements of the National Org, and all is well. The Local Council will be incorporated as a Non-Profit org in the local state, the Board of Directors is by definition all the Charter Organization Representatives (you can read all this in the incorporation papers in your state's records). Guess what? The CORs may /maynot never come to a meeting. "The work is done by whoever shows up". The local executives (voted in, approved by, the CORs present) do what they want. Look up the many sales of campgrounds . Some years ago, Chicago Area Council went about selling off the many camps the Council owned, with Nationals encouragement and blessing. SOME of the CORs finally got together and took things to court, worked with the local county government involved and saved Owasippee from Luxury Resort status. You can google and look it up in the Scouter dot com records. Don't say it can't happen. Cape Cod is facing the same dilemma. Bankruptcy? Separation of assets? The various churches/fire companies/American Legion Posts that sponsored the Troops (and approved the leaders) that suffered with the abusive leaders won't be sued, they don't have any assets to attach.

I'm with sst3rd on this. If you have the gung-ho Scouts you sound like you have, and the parent support, you can brainstorm a local neighborhood summer camp. Check with your District leaders for Merit Badge Counselors, and Scout Leader Trainers. Put an event/campsite in each of several backyards. Hike between them. Cook meals on the backyard grill. Visit local historic sites. Totin' Chip? Ask for your District's IOLS folks. Knots/Pioneering? Sea Scouts in your Council? Map and Compass? Ya know any surveyors? No requirement that any of it must be done at an "official" camp. Swimming? Boats? Might need a connection and arrangements with a local pool or lake front. Archery? Shotgun/rifles? Check with your local Isaac Walton League. Around Baltimore, there are many Scout Friendly archery clubs. Poke around, you can find the solution to your desire. Way back when, I passed several FC requirements in backyards, not at camp. It can be fun, will build lasting friendships and memories. It does take alot of "what if" planning, and trust and commitment from the Troop Scouters, but it can be done. Scouting started out with NO professional leadership, remember that. It was and should be as ""LOCAL"" as possible.