SSScout

Scoutfish speaks my mind. If Scouting IS the uniform, then there will be no Scouting as we know it. The Uniform SUPPORTS Scouting, it does not define it. I say again, it is unfortunate that it appears National seems to REQUIRE the uniform in order to be a Scout. Going back to Scouting's origins, it was recognized that the Uniform certainly represents Scouting, much like a flag represents the organization(nation, state, VFD, school, Troop). If the Pack or Troop makes Scouting the goal, the boys will want to be Uniformed. But to absolutely require, or you are not a Scout, no, that is not right, not the intent of the founder, not a realization of the ideals. Help the boys be uniformed, but require it or else? Not right.

My home troop has the "use it before or after, not during" camp policy. If you bring it "for emergencies", your responsibility if dropped over the cliff, into the creek, stepped on, etc. I was at an overnight on the USS Constellation in Baltimore once. Cub had a good time thru the day program, helped set up his hammock(!) and was asleep until about 3am, then made his way up on deck to me (I was night watch)and almost in tears, really H/S. I cellphoned his dad, 5 minutes on the phone, back in his hammock, all ok. Became a Scout, on the first Troop O/N, he was the one helping a fellow crossedover Webelos with the H/Sness.

By implication, the policy of uniforming by the greater BSA authority should apply to the parts, ie., Cubs. The uniform is one of the methods, no argument there. The reason for the methods should not be in argument. The REQUIREMENT for a uniform is in argument. Mr. James E. West, the first Chief Scout Executive was quoted as saying "As I have said so often, it is not necessary to wear the uniform to be a Scout. It is much more important that you live Scouting in your daily life so that the people who know you best, see in you an embodiment of courtesy, kindness, courage, - in a word, of the Scout Oath and Law....If you do get a uniform, see that it is... correctly worn and that the insignia are correctly placed..." There are countries where Scouting is highly regarded, but they can afford only the simplest of uniforms. They may wear a colored Tshirt and the neckerchief and are recognized as a Scout. It is sad that our National office finds it necessary to make folks think one can not be a Scout WITHOUT the uniform. When I came back to Scouting as CM, (son wanted to be a Cub), I discovered to my surprise that the BSA had changed the Cub uni to include a new uni EACH YEAR. New hat, new necker, more money. I am surprised parents haven't revolted and not bought the extra stuff. I know many Packs and Troops have opted for blue jeans as uni pants, rather than the "official" uni pants. Thankfully, the new ones ("switchbacks")are more practical in many ways, and more poular with the Scouts. Put your efforts and money into the PROGRAM. Take your Cubs places and do things. Encourage the uniform, but don't require it to the detriment of the boy's participation.

*sigh* MLR: BSA is a discriminatory organization because it encourages Scouts (and Scouters) to espouse a religion, ie., a belief in a "higher power". Ev etal: The BSA not only encourages such, but asks members to agree to a statement that makes that belief "public". If the person cannot agree to this statement, then they either will cease membership voluntarily or be asked to leave. This is in agreement with the first point of the Scout Law that all BSAers are asked to abide by (hypocrites not welcome, either. Used to be a mention of that in the Scout Law explanation. Another time...)) MLR: Any USA governmental entity (school, police, water district, rec department, etc.) can not "discriminate" or exclude anyone on basis of age, gender, sexual orientation, skin tone, ethnic origin, religious belief, or political persuasion. Therefore, if a governmental entity denies entrance or participation to anyone on that basis, it is against the law. Ev et al: So? MLR: So if a School seeks to sponsor a Scout unit, and the Scout unit denies membership to someone who displays a particular form of something on the above list, the School, by virtue of being the "owner" of the unit, is responsible for the actions of it's unit and therefore is doing something illegal. Ev et al: But the BSA is a private organisation, and can define it's membership as it wishes. MLR: Agreed, but the "Charter" organization ALSO defines who can join. Some Churches require that only folks of a certain faith can belong to "their" Scout units, yes? If the CO is required BY LAW to NOT deny admission or participation, then their Scout unit MUST admit any breathing human boy that wants to join. Otherwise, the School should not even seek to sponsor a Scout unit, the local DE should not seek to get a School to charter the Scout unit, and the BSA should not allow entities with governmental duties to sponsor a Scout unit... Ev et al: You mean... MLR: Yep, only private organizations should/can legally/ought to sponsor Scout Units. Ev etal: Churches? Temples? PTOs? Volunteer Fire Companies? Hardware stores? Civic Clubs? Saloons? MLR: I'd agree to all of them. Ev etal: Not Public Schools? MLR: Nope. Uh uh. Ev etal: Private school? MLR: No complaint, except... Ev etal: What now? MLR: I think that BSA is so much a public entity that it ought to admit everyone, regardless of religious persuasion. Ev etal: You mean God or god or nogod... MLR: Exactly. Ev etal: Thank you. MLR: Thank you.

Do you like Tastycakes new box? Now they have an aluminum pan inside where before it was all paper. Not as eco friendly, I say. Used to date a girl who worked in the TK HQ in Baltimore. She even took credit for the creation of TK's breakfast Danish. hummm. Daughter sez she prefers "naked pie", that is to say, pie filling sans crust. Just sweet goo.

I was escorting some Webelos to a Webweekend. In a slack period, I explored the camp and found a pile (literal) of 5/8" hemp next to a staff tent. I took a judgement of it's length, sat down on the camp stool next to it, and proceeded to weave a Turk's Head with it around the tent pole adjacent. Might have taken 15 minutes. Many folks passing by, no one ever stopped to inquire what I was doing. 'Course, it was loose around the pole, I guess a 5bighter. Firmed and neatened it up, coiled the rest of the rope flat at the base of the pole, and walked away.

No more 504 bad gateway? THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout... Thank you and mega kudoes to you, Scouter Terry!

Let the leetle grey cells percolate... Historically, left sleeve, use to have town/state strips on the shoulder curve, now a big Council patch. Below that, Unit Number and PoR patch. Could not we have a ("approved", by whom?) District strip right below, chockablock the Council patch? Seems to me that would be an appropriate spot... Our District (stable nominclaturely and geographically defined now for almost two years!!!), passes out Commissioner neckers with special District patches thereon emplaced. I know not how financed, but they are big, adult sized neckers and 4" patches. Pretty.

If you are not that concerned with "pretty", go to your plumber, he can thread some pipe for you and make a take-apart pole for you.

Camp William B. Snyder, near Manassas VA, close to I66 and US15. National Capital Area Council Camp. Tent Platforms, cabins if available, Camp grounds. Shower houses, Poll, call'em. http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/vieworgpagelink.asp?orgkey=1933&linkkey=30646#snyder

I would like to thank Mr. LeRoy for adding a touch of serious debate to our deliberations. It is a good thing to be reminded what is important, even if by the demand to define for ourselves what "it" is. And the world would be a much duller place, if everyone agreed on everything, nicht war?

I say it's a nice try at cross referencing, but too obscure for the average observer. Howbout... "The Green Bars" and the shoulder rondelle is a "green bear". (and St. Pat's day right round the corner too, dontcha know) =or= Call the Patrol the "Hillcourts" and someone explain to them the significance.(rondelle is a green "HC")

Quiche Lorraine (scrambled egg pie) Chicken Pot Pie Key Lime Peach Strawberry/rhubarb

Well-a, everybody's heard about the bird Bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, the bird is the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, well, the bird is the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, well, the bird is the word A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, well, the bird is the word A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, don't you know about the bird Well, everybody knows that the bird is the word A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, everybody's heard about the bird Bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, don't you know about the bird Well, everybody's talking about the bird A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word A-well-a, bird Eagle bird Bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb, aaah Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Oom-oom-oom-oom-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-oom-oom-oom Oom-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-a-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, ooma-mow-mow Papa-oom-oom-oom-oom-ooma-mow-mow Oom-oom-oom-oom-ooma-mow-mow Ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, ooma-mow-mow Well, don't you know about the bird Well, everybody knows that the bird is the word A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow Papa-ooma-mow-mow, papa-ooma-mow-mow... I'm tired, too.

"AFAICS, it's the parent's call, for all the reasons Beavah and Lisa say." I still like going back to the source: "Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents' wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, whatever form of religion the boy professes." = Baden-Powell = If the parents profess atheism, we respect that. If the boy can no longer truthfully fulfill what he promises, even if we let him define what constitutes his fulfillment, then chances are good,of his own accord, he will not be a Scout much longer. I like Kudu's method. I do the same thing when the Jehovah's Witnesses come to call. I do not deny their profession, but find their challenge informs and strengthens my faith, such as it is. "Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief". We can help the young Scout's unbelief, but not by denying it outright. Make sure they understand their own language, then enlarge upon it, if you can.

I still say we need a "Religion & Chaplaincy" thread division/section/thingy. This stuff fills up the "Issues and Politics" d/s/t. The present discussion is neither political nor an issue, I feel, but philosophic and existential. Religious. "It is a sad Reflection, that many Men hardly have any Religion at all; and most Men have none of their own: For that which is the Religion of their Education, and not of their Judgment, is the Religion of Another, and not Theirs". = William Penn =

Scientists... "If one proceeds directly and straightforwardly in this matter, without being deflected by a fear of incurring the wrath of scientific opinion, one arrives at the conclusion that biomaterials with their amazing measure or order must be the outcome of intelligent design. No other possibility I have been able to think of..." = Fred Hoyle = "If we say that God has always been, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always been?" = Carl Sagan = "Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: Ye must have faith. It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with." "Both Religion and science require a belief in God. For believers, God is in the beginning, and for physicists He is at the end of all considerations To the former He is the foundation, to the latter, the crown of the edifice of every generalized world view. " = Max Planck = And do your own research on Kurt Godel and St. Anselm's proof of the existance (or not) of God...

Great scientists: "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God". "God does not throw dice". = Albert Einstein= und so wiess

Dang! I thought this was about stove fuel... " I love cooking with wine, sometimes I even put it in the food" ((attrib. to W.C.Fields)) I would eschew the wine. If, without it, the recipe is not well received, add catsup to it, the boys will understand... ;-)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Congratulations. I'm sure you will long remember the WB experience. And the ..."White Envelope"... 1) I hope you asked the DE about this. Did he know what was in the envelope or was he merely delivering for someone else? 2) In Our Council/District: When the final ticket is accepted, the WBer tells his Troop Guide how he/she wants his/her beads delivered. Ceremony? Where, when, how extravagant? And the TG and WB CD/SM comes and presents the WBer with the beads, necker, woggle, etc. No ceremony desired? Then what? Mail? Hand off at Roundtable? I had my beading done at my home Troop CoH and invited my WB patrol and many other Scout friends to witness. It was, therefore, not only a culmination for me, but an education for many others who did not know of WB. 3) I hope you will contact your WB CD/SM and TG and find out what happened. If the white envelope was your "beading", then you were really short changed. I find it hard to believe that the WB PTB would allow such to happen, knowing the dedication evident in my WB experience. I have to agree with emb021 and wonder who you might have annoyed... 4) Was the DE associated with your WB course? Did he/she attend too? 5) I hope you will politely pursue this and allow yourself the ceremonial recognition you deserve. YiS

Awright! Back in Scouter! I was in withdrawal without my Scouter fix until just now! From friday night til now, everytime I clicked "Scouter", I got the above message. Moderators: what news? Beavah: I pm'ed twice, but no reply. Didst receive?

"A troll is a member of a fearsome humanoid race from Scandinavian folklore, and its predecessor Norse mythology, as in "The Three Billy Goats Gruff [1] (http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/billygoats/)," the well-known Scandinavian folk tale in which a troll living under a bridge torments some billy goats that want to cross. Grendel in the poem Beowulf is a closely similar creature. The word "Troll" is possibly derived from an old norse word meaning magic, cf. Swedish "Trolla", Danish "Trylle" (Perform magic tricks)." "In Swedish children's literature, trolls are not naturally evil, but primitive and misunderstood. Their misdeeds are due to a combination of basic and common human traits, such as envy, pride, greed, navet, ignorance and stupidity." "There is a theory that the trolls are a distant memory of modern man's encounter with Neanderthals. Some also claim that the Neanderthals may well have lived into historical times, and may be remembered as trolls." == on line Dictionary== Troll on, you wide Missouri, troll on !

Owl be seeing you In owl the old familiar places That these beads of mine embraces Owl day through... In an Eagle's snack, A Beaver's tail that some may lack; The Bobwhite flock; The Kudu's horn; The Weather Rock.... Owl be seeing you In every lovely P L C; With every thing B P might say. Owl always think of you that way... Owl find you When the Foxes run And when the night is new... Owl be sitting at campfire, But owl be seeing you...... Owl be seeing you In every lovely Buffaloe; In every little Bear's big toe, Owl always think of Webelo, Owl find you With the Antelopes And not with the Gnu... Owl be looking at the moon, But owl be seeing you............ ((with apoligies to Sammy Fain and Irving Kahal , really)) (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Dan K has it succinctly about the Religious Award. I would like to point out that when the Bears have their Bear Badge, that should not be a sign to sit down and take Cub nap. There are lots of Arrow Points to earn and places to go and(I hope) lots of stuff to do, Den wise, Pack wise and District and Council wise! Keep them Bears (and Tigers and Wolves) hopping!

In MD, I can vouch for Little Bennett, very Scout friendly, and have visited Cunningham Falls and Cedar Creek. They tend to be crowded early. Ask the Rangers for the least crowded weekends at any State Park. Washington Monument is pretty and more rugged, and right on the AT. Might not be as popular with the public. Go there in person to scout out the facilities if at all possible. And, don't forget CWBSnyder, the Council camp.