SSScout

Nostalgia... Or in cooking, Nosh-talgia... Back in pre LNT, the Troop of of my youth camped in a woods owned by the brother of the SMs uncle's cousin, or something. This area had been thick in American Chestnut, and even in the late fifties and sixties, the dead Chestnut logs and stumps were our prime source for good firewood. Blue flames and thick coals for all cooking. DO when someone remembered to bring it. Reflector oven biscuits when we were adventurous. Ah me...

I have waited to tell this story for three reasons. One, I was unsure if I should share this with so broad an audience. Two, I did not want to in any way confuse my sons participation in the Jamboree. Three, I received very few responses to PMs I sent to folks on this forum, seeking advice. Perhaps that was part of the greater email troubles weve read about. (Deep breath) Here goes. As some of you know, I was privileged to serve as a Chaplain , representing the Religious Society of Friends, in Jamboree 2005, along with another Friend. We served in every Chaplain capacity. So, we both applied in January 2009 to serve again in 2010. We both had second choices, should we not be Quaker Chaplains. In July 2009, I received an email from National saying your application has not been accepted. Your deposit will be returned. This decision is not appealable. I contacted my colleague, and he said he had heard nothing. He eventually contacted Irving (persistence!!) and he had his own odyssey: including lost forms, wrong spellings, wrong assignments, and a Unitarian (nice fellow, we knew him) mistakenly being named the Friend Chaplain. My colleague was eventually, after many weeks, named the Religious Society of Friends Chaplain. Meanwhile, I decided I would like to know why my application was not accepted. I called and emailed many times, was assured that every official (many) I addressed had my message, but no one called or emailed back for two months (!). Then I finally had three long phone conversations with a gentleman (Ill call him Mr. B) who was the ONLY one who was straight with me. Very long story short: National checks Jamboree staff applications and then shunts them to the applicants local Council, where someone answers a multi category evaluation. This evaluation is considered confidential, ( I had another Pro Scouter say that Mr.B should NOT have told me what it contained). Mr. B revealed to me that my evaluation was not the best, rated poor or fair in such topics as positive attitude, speaking ability and community participation. So (he said) my application was not denied at National, but at my local Council. In talking with my local Council folks, they said they only provide National with information about the applicant. National makes the staffing decisions. Oh hum. I asked: considering my long, detailed, honorable Scouting record (not questioned), awards, experience and work in teaching and public presentation, didnt this evaluation seem somehow inconsistent? Mr. B said he couldnt answer that. Could I have folks that know my spirit and skills write letters to him about my abilities and record? He said he would accept such letters but could not say what, if any, effect they would have. In the months that followed, no fewer than 15 folks wrote letters: bosses, ex-bosses, co-workers, Scouter friends, Woodbadge leaders, IOLS leaders, Friend members, Day Camp Directors, Lions Club leaders all wrote letters. Those they forwarded to me set a very high standard for me to meet. Irony alert: Of the Pro Scouters I know, all but one told me they would gladly write such a support letter, but had been directed by their superiors not to. The last one asked why would I want to put myself at such risk? Why bring such attention to myself? Let it go, in a year, it will be forgotten.... It will? He did not see that my reputation, even so far away as in Irving, was important to me. If I had been told they didnt need any more Chaplains, or parking attendants, or Merit Badge Counselors, or permit passers, I might have salved my disappointment and moved on. But to tell me I was not accepted for ANY duty, I could not understand that. Something was wrong. With me? As I pursued this issue, I subsequently received email from Mr. B and other National Jamboree sections stating that I was NOT accepted (their term) for ANY Jamboree Staff position. I have since met another Scouter that had a similar situation. Had his deposit returned with no explanation. He has had no response to his inquiries. I am drafting (not yet sent) a letter to Mr. Mazucca. My desire is to make him aware of what happened to me so it may not happen to someone else. Meantime, Scoutson enjoyed the Jamboree, as he should. I am still Scouty, as a friend says, and a long way from dropping out of the Scout world, but the lingering feeling is one of somehow not being treated fairly.

Available, DC area. http://www.gscnc.org/Camp_Properties.html

Just one: Pg.B4..."Cody Aurland, 7, of Va. Beach tries roping for grandfather Norm Aurland, who is a scoutmaster". Looks like Webelos and Cubs to me (!).

Service to the CO is (or should be) a given, a "no brainer". The Scout Troop of my youth mowed the church lawn. Every other weekend, each Patrol took it's turn. Sometimes after school in the evening, sometimes Saturday morning. Then we go off on a hike!. Trim the bushes, sweep the walks, dads help service the mower. And, back then, there was no Eagle requirement for a "service project", only to serve. When the project requirement was instituted, there was much discussion about what the difference was. It was seen that it was to be outside of the Scout world. Can't organize a project at a Scout Camp, but a National Park, or a Lions Club Camp for disadvantaged kids is an appropriate spot to consider. Can't paint the Scout closet, (now there's an image. All our gear in a closet. Now, it overflows a twin axle trailer), but the church hall way and library might be okay. Now, doesn't mean the Troop can't paint the closet, just that it can't be Sam's Eagle project. Build and install benches and tables in the churches new picnic shelter. Build a bench and walkway for the transit bus stop out front. One Scout proposed building a stage/picnic deck at his church's camp (not the Troop CO) and was approved, but had to change because it was too far away and the logistics wouldn't cooperate. His church chartered a different Troop, but the camp was not a Scout camp, so no conflict there. Our local high school had a very non-descript sign out front. Scout took on cleaning up and landscaping the area appropriately. Now, the school SGA takes on trimming and upkeep. So encourage the project out in the larger world, away from the Scout world. Encourage the Scout to look for and see a need and then meet it.

Maybe I'm interpreting the original post wrongly, but it sounds like wanting BSA to have some aegis over the faiths' Chaplains. As has been pointed out, a Scout Chaplain need not be ordained, diplomaed clergy. The need is for a Chaplain to have the support and imprimatur of his/her faith. I am not knowledgeable about such things, but if I met someone with Chaplain patch on sleeve, or who presented themselves as a SChaplain, I would tend to respect them for that, and might ask what faith they represent? Such a Chaplain by rights would not only be expected to be knowledgeable about their own faith but be open and somewhat knowledgeable about others. How did they get a Scout Patch that reads "Chaplain" on their sleeve? Or a nameplate so decorated? By garnering the respect of the Scout world with the support of some authority in their faith community. For BSA to create a "POR" of Chaplain, there would need to be a set of formal "requirements" to meet. How to do that? Would the requirements be the same for a Catholic? A Jew? A Quaker? A Muslim? When I applied to be a Friend (Quaker) Chaplain at the 2005 Jamboree, I presented some support from the national Friends Committee on Scouting, my home Meeting and that was sufficient. BSA accepted me as one of two Friend Chaplains. This was something new to our fellow Jambo Chaplains, as my colleague and I were not "ordained", not even named a "lay" minister like our fellow Mennonite Chaplain. But as everyone got to know each other, we were soon accepted and put to work. My colleague is his Troop's "Chaplain",but when I left the Jamboree, I was no longer an "official" Scout Chaplain. The idea has often preceeded me, however, and folks that know my history will ask me to lead grace, or help organize a Scout's Own (!) or ask for some Scout award information. As to "organizing" Chaplains: I dare say all Councils that I have had contact with have a Religious Affairs or Relationships Committee, or some such. A Chaplain, no matter how moved to that position(by "spirit" or bishop's order, or perceived need), can find their way to join therein. "Networking for God" We have no "organized Chaplaincy" probably because it is a good idea not to institutionalize the duty.

What she said. And Duct Tape. Can't go wrong with one extra roll of Duct tape.

Okay, eightyseven years ago....

Oh, it was fun, I'm glad I went, it was HOT and I drank everybit of fluid I brought and more. There were floats about Eagles, floats about camping (fire extiguisher next to nylon flames), floats about the SPromise, and SLaw. The Scout statues on the floats were ALL uniformly uniformed in yellow nylon, I guess they couldn't find the right shade of tan. Like 1970s female Cub Scout leader blouse yellow. The balloons were rented/organized from/by a company from Detroit, so they said. The balloons included colorful stars; cubes with pictures of Scouts, the prez and Scouts, Venturers and Scouts, rocks and rivers and canoes and SCouts on their sides; Oscar the Grouch (don't ask me); Billy Blaze (think Rescue Rangers); a giant Eagle (the best one, I thought), a balloon balloon (hot air type), and a birthday cake, with 8 foot candles blown up. I helped hold Billy down. Also the requisite antique cars, ww2 jeeps, police m/cs, and hundreds and hundreds of Scouts. A semi flat bed with jitter bug dancers, a Sea Scout (real 1/10 scale) topsail schooner ship on a trailer, and hundreds and hundreds of Scouts. Latino dance team. A 1931 Plymouth pick up truck(!). I tell you, pulling Billy INTO the wind was WORK. Fortunately, the wind was not always in our faces, only seemed that way. The parade ended about an hour before the storm hit. The balloons were deflated fairly quickly. I did not get to claim my souvenir packet (later that), because the wind took down ALL the canvas standing on the mall or by Washington Monument. I ended up taking shelter in the garage entrance to the Commerce Dept. with about 30 other Scouty folks. The wind and rain went horizontal for about 30 minutes. The storm did alot of damage to the DC area, power is still out in much of southern Montgomery County. I did claim a unique souvenir. The balloons are lofted with several individual bladders, and the shape is held taut with a small electric blower inflating the outer skin. Fellow with a battery pack walked along with each balloon. When the balloons are deflated, I was half expecting them to pump out the helium to recycle it. Nope. The crews would try to deflate the bladders to reclaim them, but they just release the helium out into the atmosphere. Some of the bladders burst from the heat, some were knifed to speed the process. So, I picked up a used, burst bladder. Whoppee. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/25/AR2010072503013.html Toward the end of the parade, we would have to manuever Billy to make room for ambulances. Yes, there were heat problems. I was almost one of them, to be honest. I was beat at the end. At the end, the FDept. were spraying water for Scouts to play in. Met old friends, made some new ones, danced the Lindy with a CSDC Director. See you in another hundred years...Ha!

Yeah, I'll call it high adventure... I'm off to the Centennial Scout Parade in Downtown Washington, DC. Leave home in about an hour. I'll be a "Balloon Handler" (think Macy's parade). A distant relative was an officier on the Graf Zeppelin, so I guess it's appropriate. One of the requirements was to be "more than 110 lbs". I think I pass muster there. Later, I'll come back and discuss not attending the Jamboree. Y'all stay cool, now.

Bushwah and bullhockey. Every where you meet this kind of stuff, it needs to be met head on and the truth put to it. http://www.yourmoontownship.com/blog/troop358/eagle-scout-coraopolis-troop-meets-president Strictly speaking, they are "signed" by machine, not by the President's own hand, still, he has NEVER refused to "sign them. It is the same with any rumor or half truth. The hard part is finding the truth to confront it with. Sen. Al Franken, when he confronted Limbaugh and others with their caterwaling, none of them, to my knowledge, could answer him when he pointed out their inconsistancies and catches in outright lies (see his book Lies and the Lying Liers That Tell Them, for some head shaking entertainment). AND, by the way... Mars will never appear as large as the moon in the sky... http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/errata/a/two-moons.htm http://www.snopes.com/science/astronomy/brightmars.asp

One of the neat things about the Scout uniform (and by that I mean all versions: Cub, Boy, Vanture, Sea) is that it can be "customized" to a certain extent. The necker is the usual place to start. Originally, it was meant to be part of the Scout's "Be Prepared" kit. The slide made it easy and quick to get off and use. Signal flag, first aid bandage, arm sling, pole repair, dust mask, sweat bandana, I have an old book that lists no fewer than 25 different uses for a Scout neckerchief. Then, it became (in USA at least) more of a decoration, like a man's tie. No real use, just a symbol. The necker in my son's troop is a good 5" smaller than the one from my Scout days. And a money maker (how many Cub neckers?) By regulation, a Scout Troop may design and wear it's own, custom, necker. There is no prohibition about the slide (woggle, traditionally), so custom, hand made slides are to be encouraged. Nice Cub craft. Commemorative item. Award a special slide instead of a patch. Come to think of it, I can't think of any prohibition of a Cub Pack just wearing the yellow Cub necker. Our Troop occassionally has a slide contest, we invite a local professional artist to judge it. Ask local stores to donate some prizes (ice cream cones, tacos, cupcakes,smoothies. Very popular!). Categories have included "most useful" (small flashlight), "most Scouty" (75th anniversity of Cub Scouts), "most colorful" (treasure chest), "Best overall" (a carved long horn head). I spoke to a Scouter who had visited South Africa. He reported visiting with a Scout Troop there who had yellow Tshirts and red neckers. That was their whole uniform. They were glad to be Scouts. Carved their own woggles from local tree stems that happened to get hollow naturally. Ranks were recognized with ribbons pinned to the shirt. Beaver Patrol wears a Beaver tail carved woggle. Eagle Patrol all wears a bird's head. Et Cetera. Necker too warm? Loosen it up alittle. You might like it again come wintertime, but wear it well.

Okay. Now that we have all but established a de facto "Faith, Religion and Chaplaincy" forum, I'd like to suggest to you viewing the Jamboree Scout Handbook at http://www.bsajamboree.org/filestore/jamboree/pdf/410-153.pdf scroll to pages 33, 42 and then 75 to view the Jambo's devotion suggestions. Graces, meditations, topics for discussion. Drawn from, what Holy Script? What is included? what left out? What might have been included but wasn't? Scout's Own? Which Scout?

The very latest.... http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/article/inventor-hopes-to-make-dough-with-the-candwich-a-sandwich-in-a-can/19560214

My Eagle medal dangle is packed away in my "Scout Box" and it comes out for Scoutson to look at sometimes, along with the neckerslides, MB sash, old MB cards, and such. The ESknot is on my uni. I realize that tradition is no real reason to continue to do something (nothing wrong with questioning the rationale for anything, "because I said so" is never a good ultimate reason...), but really, why change the emblems or how they are worn now? After how many solar circuits? The FC badge is the same, granted no longer on a square patch of cloth, and this year surrounded by a special note about the special year earned, but it is the same. Recognition of accomplishment is important, but more bling does not a Scouter make. Why not relabel the other knots to make them more self explanatory? Then we could have folks staring at the pocket top like some do at name tags (" Hi there, ah, Jack..."),figuring out that that one's Arrow of Light, that one's Scoutmaster award, Hornaday, Commissioner, ah, ...Hey, we already do that!. I would never chastise an adult who wore his Eagle dangle on a "civilian" suit, but I might wonder why. I have a small lapel Eagle pin that is on one of my suit coats, it trades duty with my OA lapel pin, the Red Cross pin, the University pin, the musical note pin, and whatever else I have in my pin tin on my dresser. They all indicate something and are sometimes conversation starters. Meant to be. Then too, we do have the back of the shirt with nothing on it, yet...

"Faith, Religion and Chaplaincy" thread, anyone? As I have shared in anecdotal form before, I think most folks join Scouting and then self select out when they discover the more overt religiousity of our organization. I know most kids when they join certainly don't give it a thought. Camp, hike, fire cooking, fun, nature study maybe, that's what they join for, not theology. Late night tent conversations, campfire bull sessions, that's when the BIGGER things come up, that's when the adults and the older Scouts start thinking about can they truely promise a"...duty to God" and what does that mean? Some will see the connection to the faith of their family, some will deny it (whether they are aware of it or not, ALL parents give their children something to either rebel against or accept, after all), some will be drawn to another faith, and some will find no reason for any faith at all. These last will either keep it to themselves, or raise hue and cry about it, or quietly drop out or resign. Again, I do not feel it is our place, as Scout leaders, to actively seek out the doubters and force their issue. Our personal example and directing their attention to the Scout promise and Law should be sufficient. Now as to " Scout's Own"...

Without the chapter and verse, I think one will find that the project must be done to benefit something/one that is not Scout related. For the CO? Possible, but not new shelving in the Scout closet in the CO's basement. Paint the classrooms, but not the Scout room. New picnic benches and landscaping/sidewalk/BBQ fireplace/outdoor pavilion/ but not the Scout sign outfront.

Ye sons of France, awake to glory, Hark, hark! what myriads bid you rise! Your children, wives and white-haired grandsires. Behold their tears and hear their cries! (repeat) Shall hateful tyrants, mischiefs breeding, With hireling hosts, a ruffian band, Affright and desolate the land, While peace and liberty lie bleeding? To arms, to arms, ye brave! The avenging sword unsheath, March on, march on! All hearts resolv'd On victory or death! Whoa...Sounds better in the French. "You played it for her, and you can play it for me"

I also suggest you write a letter expressing your observation and feelings on the matter. A collection is appropriate, and most protestant denominations "pass the basket" . Other faiths have a "collection box" near the door, which I favor in this instance. The box near the door can be accessed later, without holding things up. I have seen contribution boxes in many venues: museums, Scout camps, US Parks. We do need to finance "God's work" (and, if properly addressed, most of it is God's work, in one form or another). That said, I also agree that the amount collected could certainly be expected to exceed the requirements for printing up prayer cards. It would have been good to allocate the remainder to Haiti relief or the Red Cross or CARE or some other worthy cause. The Chaplain missed an opportunity.

Any boy can join Scouting. All boys should. When speaking of faith and religion, whether they remain depends on their "trustworthyness" and desire to not be a hypocrite. "...duty to God" and "reverence" and the religious stuff inherent in the Scout Handbook and elsewhere in the Scoutworld (see DRP, which should be DFP) will make it clear to the Scout and his parents that certain things are to be considered when the Scout makes his Promise. We had a very fine mother sign her Cub up for CSDC and then because of the quality of the staff, volunteer herself to help. We gave her an Adult Scouter application (gotta be "registered"), and then she read the fine print. "Did my son fill one of these out when he joined?" Well, one of his parents did, Uh-huh. "I'm sorry, we are not religious. Nothing personal, you folks run a fine camp, but I must withdraw my boy from Scouting." We thanked her for her frankness and shook hands goodbye. Our Highbush BBs were picked clean two weeks ago. Mebbe two gallons off three bushes, and the catbirds got the rest. Still picking raspberries. Just built an arbor and planted two grape vines. Oh the jam.

I would like to thank Mr. LeRoy for inspiring Beavah to write as he does. That last piece was very good, and speaks my mind. Beavah: Are my PMs still not reaching you? I have had some email conversations with some others of late, but no response from you.

"We really do need a Faith,Religion and Chaplaincy forum." The answer to your titled question, as has been previously enthusiastically stated, is YES. The diversity of faith in Scouting is, some other's opinions not withstanding, truly one of it's strengths. In few places can a boy (or any child, or person) expect to meet folks of such diverse culture and belief, all included by a love and loyalty to two things: The Scout Promise (or Oath) and the Scout Law. My advice to you is to approach the Taoist temple/church and offer to help them charter a Scout unit. Cub Pack, Boy Troop, matters not. I know a Viet Namese community in Virginia that includes Catholics, Buddhist, and Taoist families. They have several active Scout units. It works because they see the value of the Scout program. Unfortunately, I have more than once had to disabuse a Scout leader of the opinion that Scouting is inherently Christian. No, it isn't. Altho it is not "official" BSA policy/dogma, I still like to refer to The Founder's instructions in this regard: "Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents' wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, whatever form of religion the boy professes." =Robert Baden-Powell, Aids to Scoutmastership If the definition of "God" is the sticking point, I must leave that to the adherent; I will not attempt to define or judge them as to their suitability for Scouting. My job is to teach Scouting, not religion. Welcome to the ecampfire, again. Come back as often as you need, to refresh yourself. YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Very interesting.... Church sponsors Scout Troop. Church did not understand that it is an option (underline option)for Scouts to learn about safe firearm use. Church (understandably) is concerned about youth and firearms. Will not allow firearms on Church property. In my family, we do not allow firearms (or their representation) in our home. It is understood that games and activities (paintball, war world, etc.) that make shooting humans seem like "fun" is against our faith and we will not pursue or support them. Yep, we even get into a discussion about waterguns at CSDC, but another time for that. This does not mean that we did not allow our Scoutson to earn his Riflery and Shotgun MBs. Knowledge and awareness are important. I have a stepson who has turned his life around (another nother time) and returned from a stint in the army as knowledgeable about firearms as anyone can be. He well understands our belief. The church is not changing the requirements by saying the Scouts in it's unit may not earn the shooting MBs (how about Archery? also dangerous), it is merely giving vent to it's own moral compass and it's results. The shooting MBs are "optional", not required. Actually, come to think of it, all rank requirements are "optional". But again, knowledge of an issue often results in the lack of desire for further activity. The church must sit down with them and make sure the Scouts understand the reasoning, the faith requirements inherent there in. Otherwise, there will be much resentment and that will be a worse result. Quakers have always been on the non-violent side of things, and when the VFW and American Legion come to decorate some graves in our cemetary on Memorial Day, they respect our wishes and do not bring firearms on our property for their ceremony. Pioneer Quakers often had a rifle over the mantlepiece (so to speak) but it's "intention" was the important thing, not it's mere presence. Scouts use .22s and shotguns in the safest possible environments. If there is any doubt about the quality and supervision of the shooting range teacher/leaders, it is incumbent upon the accompanying Scout Leaders to speak up and do something about that. Learning the safe handling of a firearm might save a life in the unknown future of these Scouts. Knowledge is never a bad thing. The use of that knowledge needs guidance. That is where the faith comes in, I think. YiS

Miquinn1978: Howdy, Pull up some magnetic bubbles and join the virtual campfire. It's entertaining and thought provoking. Provokes other things too, but you'll see... Yeah, when I was Scout, working on my Dinosaur Herding Merit Badge, I sure wasn't concerned with the stuff that concerns me here, now. Scout HQ migrated from New Jersey to Texas, instead of selling donuts on Saturday morning (Troop fundraiser,) we have corporate popcorn, Eagles have a project to plan and complete, GPS gets you lost instead of a paper map. It is a brave new world, but very similar to the old one, after all. Oh my, don't wait for the Fall, Get your TD off early, summer picnics and hikes are not to be missed. Your boys are waiting for you.... YiS

we really do need a Faith, Religion and Chaplaincy forum. Can I have an "amen"?