SSScout

Demonstrating and "lecturing" have to go along together. The modeling of Patrol Behavior is often not mentioned in the IOLS manual, but is a Trainer/philosophy thing, I find. I have been a trainer on several IOLS courses, different leaders, and I do adjust to their attitudes. The best , IMHO, lead by example, and try to encourage the trainees to see themselves as a Patrol. They are organized into Patrols at the indoor sessions of SMS,encouraged to communicate BEFORE they get to the IOLS site, and then on site, expected to communicate and operate together for cooking, fire wood, sanitation stuff, everything. We have Patrol competitions(knot tying speed, lashing poles to get an object out of reach, finding a compass bearing and the "treasure", and when the weekend is over, my SM presents Patrol Awards. We have a very Scout friendly place to train. Big open field, fire ring, big open pavilion, and a barn to use if the weather is really bad. October last, we wrapped the pavilion with tarps and held forth thru a rain and sleet storm. Find dry wood by splitting open wet logs? Build a fire in rain and wind? did that. Hike thru the woods pointing out animal sign. Not just Look, but See. Not just Listen, but Hear. Another time, one IOLS organizer told me they expected the trainees to "earn" their Toten'Chip. She had the patches ready to present them! When I protested that adults may not wear youth awards, she said it was important for the men/women to have the "whole" experience. And then wanted me to do the Wood's Tools portion in 1/2 hour. I said no, I need at least an hour, which was grudgingly scheduled. She did not do Patrols, only individual camping. Sound familiar? Her cooking was in BIG charcoal, AL foil dinners, luaau style. I thought it was very clever, but us staff set out the charcoal, we laid the fires, not them. Again, get the old timers to do the show and tell, model the Patrol method, and let the trainees ACT like Scouts , as much as possible.

"What we have he-ah, is a fail-yah, to cummunikate..." I have to agree with much that Scoutnut noted. CM does her thing, CC does hers, and the Committee backs up the Pack. If the Treasurer is keeping an honest, open accounting, and the CC is holding meeetings, and the boys (the BOYS) are having fun, and being Scouts, then I would counsel working with her and , as 5year suggests, HELP her to work toward the continuance of the Pack. Be appreciative of her efforts at organizing things, be open in your communicating about YOUR plans and acknowledging HER plans. If you cannot agree to a particular idea or plan or activity, then gently explain how and work toward a version that she can accept. As to the Pack meeting interuptions, I find in my sub teaching gigs that I have to be directive. When I am explaining the triangle project and a child speaks up that her brother went to the hospital last night, I gently say I am sorry to hear that, and we will talk about that after the lesson. And I do. As Pack Ringmaster, you need to smilingly thank her for the reminder of the need to fax something somewhere and then ignore the irrelavant interruption. Sometimes I will POINT at the child and say "Irrelavant!" and then ask them a particular question about our activity. Stay in command in your baillywick! Politely! Smilelingly! The CC is, after all, filling a role you needed, and seems to be doing it, if not diplomatically and caringly, at least in a way to make folks less than complacent! That can be seen as a good thing, for what it is. Rechartering: You sound as if you are not familiar with it, but acknowledge the need for the process. It similarly sounds like the CC is very familiar with the process. Let her do it! And make your admiration and gratitude be expressed! Assuming all goes well... Your CC seems to be the sort that will grudgingly admit that SOMETIMES some folks won't agree with her, and (to her mind) oh well, I guess that's just too bad for them (note the reaction you related about the parade timing...). Don't take it so persnally, she sees the rest of the world the same way, I am sure. Do the parade, take pictures, show them at the next meeting and then move on. You must be doing something right, or the Pack would not be so attractive to people. Take pride in that, just widen your embrace to include her, despite her reticence to be included.

Schedule two courses: One traditional :Friday eve (crackerbarrel, early setup) then All day Saturday and Sunday thru lunch. Include a "Scout's Own " discussion, and, if appropriate, a model SO. One "Sabbath friendly" course: Saturday eve (crackerbarrel and early setup) thru Sunday dinner/campfire and (if possible) monday morn thru lunch. This allows various faiths to participate w/o violating their precepts. Also, try to allow for other various necesities. Speak with LDS folks about their requirements and how you can accomodate them. Try HARD not to do it in ONE DAY, which was attempted here, but did not seem to be as successful, except in letting folks "do it" in ONE DAY. This was a Early Saturday thru Late Saturday night and go home session (no overnight!). Try not to cover too much in too short a time. Schedule things in a logical way : Knife and Axe,,FIre Safety and building, planning the campfire program, and THEN hold the campfire. Not as was done once, Campfire program on Saturday night, then Fire safety and knife and Axe on Sunday. Huh? Ask around for the old timers that know how to fell a tree and use flint and steel. Try not to just do it from the book. They can ALWAYS read the book. Start a fire with Fritos. Give them 3 ring binders and USEFUL stuff to put in them: Reprints from the 1948 Fieldbook on Knife and Axe and Some pages on Tree IDing. Recommend some guidebooks on animal ID and plant ID, even offer some for sale (bought in bulk, publishers will give you a discount for BSA, just ask). Contact your local District/COuncil BSA Chaplain about the "Scout's Own discussion. Maybe you might run into someone who served at the NatJambo in that capacity. Develope a IOLS staff for the future.... Tent as much as you can, use a shelter, but eat hearty.... YiS

Capitalism vs anyother type of econ system... The banks (define?) do what they are suppose to do: Maximize their profits for the stockholders/owners by doing banking things, and "by the book" ultimately. The bank folks do what they are good at: Being creative in "playing the game" . Eventually, the realities of the world (if someone wins, that means alot of other folks have to lose....remember that WB game-that-shall-remain-nameless?) interfere, and the banks come close to failing. Oh, the CEOS and such don't fail, the BANK does... In order to prevent a whole lot of other folks from starving and being homeless, the government creates programs that will "save the banks that are too big to fail", by loaning them money (created by selling government bonds) at REALLY low interest rates (nearly none). The banks, out of the goodness of their hearts (no doubt), loan the money BACK to the government at MARKET rates, (buying more Tbills?)and (surprise!) make alot of profit for their owners. GUESS WHO ultimately PAYS THE MARKET INTEREST RATES ? Is the euro trouble any different?

Thank you! Consider it passed on...

For everyother activity, one needs: 1) Trained, capable leaders to TEACH and OVERSEE the Scouts safe, responsible behavior that follows the Sweet Sixteen and the Scout Promise and Law (Courteous, kind...) 2) A designated, dedicated LARGE ENOUGH area. You're not going to see archery happening just anywhere? Waterfront and lifeguards? 3) Well maintained equipment. Frayed bow strings? Rusty .22 barrels? 4) Ummmm... What did I forget? These new activities will need all the above and more. They will take up space, time and pelf. But we are beyond the days of merely making presentations with markers on newsprint pads on an easle . We use and teach with modern implements, but also remember to use the old style stuff too. Woodfire and propane stove. Candle (flint and steel) and LEDs. Oars and jet compressors. Feet, backpack and 2 stroke. We do have to keep up, just don't forget to teach what to do when the power goes out...

Big, 2" safety pins. Stainless steel, won't rust, wash and wear...

When/if the boy leaves the Troop, give him his plank. Lots of good use for velcro© here. Name, Scout rank (sticker), miniature shoulder patch picture. When he leaves/graduates from Troop, give him his plank with the rank and PoR attached. Laminated cardboard picture of PoR, velcro to fuzzy board for arranging, maybe plexi over it to avoid idle hands from becoming devil's playthings? Good P/R at CO, too.

What is the way to help a Scout whose family is hard up in these times? How can he (his family?) pay his fairly established dues? Troop allows free ride? Ask local service club to help? Pass the Scout hat? Does the Council have a "scoutship" program? I have been told that some GSUSA councils have such a thing. Does BSA? Ask family to pay as they can? So much per month? I can remember when the dues were collected weekly at the Patrol meetings... History/nostalgia not appropriate? Insist that the Scout participate fully in the fundraising program and apply more than the usual share amount to his dues? What if the Scout has some difficulties emptionally/intellectually and the family really sees Scouting as a plus in his life, but those problems make it difficult for the Scout to fully participate? Thoughts? Experience? Thanks in advance...

As has been said, this is "one more arrow in the quiver". Same arguments might be heard about the Council Camps that offer ocean going yawls or rock climbing as a regular activity (not just a "special"). Now, I might wonder if Polaris or Yamaha might be thinking, here's a way to introduce future ATV purchasers to the sport. Oh, wait. We have a National Jamboree site that will have rock climbing and WWRafting as side lines. Mebbe a motor trail too? Ah! I got it... figure eight racing in dad's old Nova....

Didn't I read something about Scouts in Uni are not supposed to "ring the bell" at a kettle, but out of uni (in 'mufti'?) was alright, but other "service" projects were encouraged? http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/marketing/pdf/02-776.pdf That's the only thing I can find right now... S/A are really good guys, I always dump all my change in the ketttle as I pass...

EJ: Indeed, welcome to the ecampfire... Always good to meet another Scout from Murlun. My good wife was from Balmer, and I know where Rising Sun is. I think you will have the best of all worlds by staying in touch with your Troop when you get "old", helping the younger Scouts to keep your Troop active. As you pass Harpers Ferry, stop by the Swiss Miss for some ice cream...

Random thoughts::: CSDC give out a special "glow in the dark" bead for picking up trash around the campsite. On the Hike: ScoutLeader carries small bag to put trash in as he goes. Boys notice and beat him to it. At Nat Jamboree:: Encountering a circle of lunch bags, boxes on grass next to road to campsite, passing Scout stops and asks out loud "can I have a little help over here??!!" and starts picking up, others join in. At IOLS:: During Woods Tools session, mention is made of proper use and misuse of tools. Not just idle time hatcheting, but choice of needed project to give Scouts chance to practice skills. Scoutmaster Minute::: Mention of Stewardship of the Earth and such. Camping:: Not just a trash "pack it out" bag, but a recyclig can and bottle "pack it out " bag. Holding Scout PoRs and Adult Scout leaders to account. Conservation projects that make a difference. Mentioning things that aren't right when they are seen, and then correcting them instead of merely walking on after saying "oh, isn't that too bad". When the Troop encounters the Ranger that mentions the Troop From Hell that was there last weekend, plan a special project for that site, THAT weekend. You didn't really have to be back to the church parking lot by noon, did you? Sponsor a section of local road and stick to the commitment to regularly do the cleanup. Whole Troop? Each Patrol? Everyother month? Take on responsibility for some regular duty around your CO site. Every month, one Patrol trims the shrubs or sweeps the driveway, or something. Each Patrol/Den takes it's turn to help. Regularly. Expected. Done "the best I can do". Teach the boys by example and opportunity and lesson the importance of being responsible for their actions, and the results of their actions.

From the words of the article, it is not the GGs that are dissapointing the youngster in question, but the family who is making the decision to not be religious, or express a faith in a "higher being". Thatis their choice. It is good to have such diversity in the world. Makes me sure there is a god, if he can allow his favorite species (at least I hope it is) such freedom of choice... 'Course , there are other good orgs for boys and girls to join. Camp Fire USA comes to mind. They also have a promise, but it makes no mention of a deity. Same with 4H, but maybe they are not available in Britain. Even the Christ thru the Bible tells us not to swear , only to tell the truth as we know it. Hence the BSA "oath" is not considered a "swearing" but a promise, a declaration of our action and belief. If that includes a promise to serve the "creative force" of the universe, so be it. There is no "requirement" to do so, only if you want to belong to the Girl Guides or the Boy Scouts. At least for now.

This has been discussed AT LENGTH previously here, and over many a cuppa and adult beverage out in the hinterlands. Bottomline is: You, as SM, may not question previously passed requirements, unless you can somehow (?) prove outright fraud (forged signatures?). Re-Testing past requirements is not an option. However... No reason why you can't ask the Scout to help teach the knots (frinstance) to other young Scouts, prove his leadership by his tenure in his POR, and counsel him in his Scout Spirit with informal SM conferences prior to the "official" SMC. He is in a Patrol, yes? Have all the Patrols participate in Patrol competitions in Scoutcraft stuff. Ask him to help do Uniform inspections. Lead hikes. Compass & map following. Put him in the position his lofty status should entail. If he is in it for the patch , rather than the accomplishment, that is what he will get , ultimately. SM Minutes are inspired by less, I find. Look up "The Guy in the Glass" by Dale Wimbrow. http://www.theguyintheglass.com/gig.htm

""I think another important element of the MB program is having the Scout learn to take the initiative too. Getting up the nerve to call some adult, introduce himself, explain what he'd like to do, schedule time, plan his work, follow up, etc."" There ya go. When I do Farm Mechanics MB, I put an ad in the District newsletter saying on such and such a date I will be starting a class in FMMB, and interested Scouts should contact me. Far too often I get a SM or parent will email or call and say "I have several Scouts interested in the MB..." And I respond, fine, have them call me. Theoretically I should have 25 Scouts, never more than 6 or 8 contact me and ALL of them complete the MB. Much better that way anyway... Only exception to that has been a Scouter in Virginia (an hour drive each way!) who deals with some learning disabled Scouts; he I will talk to, his Scouts are enthusiastic if limited in ability. With help, they complete the MB.

"A World Scout Moot is much like a Jamboree, but for Scouts aged 18 25 years old instead. If you are between 18 25 years of age at the time the Moot starts, you can be a participant; ISTs are needed as well, who need to be at least 26 years of age." http://www.worldscoutjamboree.se/2011/08/14th-world-scout-moot-in-canada-2013/ Decisions, decisions...

*AHEM* Cub pack I commish: http://ww2.gazette.net/stories/02232011/olnenew203303_32537.php I just hand out the awards, I don't do any coaching....

((Cub Pack)) "Okay, Cubs and parents, I'd like to introduce to you Den 5's new Den Chief. Bill Smith, would you come forward?" "Now, Bill here is from Troop 123 and has taken on a new job, and I hope he'll find it a fun one. He will be our Den Chief for the coming months. He's going to help Den 5 with all our activities, helping the boys earn their ranks and such. As a sign of his new position, he wears this shoulder cord. (pin the cord on). There you go, Bill, (shake his hand) looks good on you. Let's give him a round of applause!!" (( rooouuunnnndd of applause)). ((Scout Troop at Regular Court of Honor)) Here, treat it as any other POR with the Troop. Explain what the cord indicates, what the responsibilities are, award the cord, shake his hand. If the Troop has any sort of investiture ceremony for it's leaders (hand on flag pole, give the promise, etc. ) adapt that for the Den Chief. Definitely worth mentioning, but I would not do anything out of the ordinary UNLESS he is being awarded the Den Chief Service Award, which is a little more special (" ooo, very special...") and thus deserving of abit more hoopla.

"Unit Commisserator" (patch: Beer mug crossed with tears) = shoulder to cry on, sympathize with, agree with (no matter what), quafe adult beverages with, remember the "good old days" with. "Unit Scrounger" (patch: red arrow crossed with question mark and exclamation mark) = Able to find equipment or repair parts needed for free or cheap, knows who has what for use at the camporee or CSDC, has a seemingly unlimited amount of 'stuff' in his gsrage/toolshed/basement that is great for CS to build things with.

Trivializing, didn't mean to. Simplistic, perhaps. But still, is not the purpose of the OA to: (1) honor those Scouts that exemplify the virtues of camping and service to their fellow Scouts and (2) encourage the virtue of "cheerful service" to others (not just Scouting, we hope) and (3) let those so honored (thru election by their peers) enjoy the company (par-tay?) of their fellow OAers. Thus (theoretically), by the example observed, encouraging such behavior among other, non-OA Scouts. At least that is what my expectation is. Am I wrong in that? So if I am right in the above, it isn't the PURPOSE they have argument with, only the ceremony, yes? Has OA changed that much? As to the comparison made by various religious professors (def.: one who 'professes' a particular belief or theory) of OA ceremony to a real religion (Mason, pagan, shamanistic, Native American, whatever), I still say 'you shall know them by their fruits'. If there is a spiritual quality to Scouting or OA, it certainly can't be of any particular faith. Can it?

It has been a long time since my Ordeal and Brotherhood. I can not say if the ceremonies that impressed me then are the same as in use today. Scoutson has said, regardless of my encouragement, that he would not accept an OA nomination, because he (1)knows all about serving others already by my and our family and Meetings example, (2) is already too active in Scouts, 4H, Meeting (he is now at 17 a full member of our Maintenance Committee), and school and (3) does not seek extra "bling" on his uniform (his words). That said, I find it hard to understand how any person, religious leader or not, can object to an organization whose goal is the encouragement of selfless service to others. Isn't that what Christ was all about? I do not remember any worship of a diety, per se, in the ceremonies. I could be wrong in that, but I don't remember anyone saying "worship THIS in THIS manner, or else" anywhere in the OA cermonies. I don't remember any directed "please join me in" prayer. I remember some boys in psuedo indian garb, playing indian, invoking some hokey idea to help a Scout realize the benefit, both to him and to others, of "joyful service". Catholic priest doesn't see a Christian basis for OA? Well, "Do unto others" isn't necessarily only a Christian admonition either. It comes up in every faith around the world in some rendition or other. My short stint as a Demolay member was kinda like that. I learned some more history, but I didn't need the ceremony to see the benefit of serving others. I had enough in Scouts, Key Club, OA, Church, my dad's Lions Club (junior member), and such. Maybe we need to make sure the OA is still about camping and service and let it go at that. If you know the priest, recommend he read Seton's ""The Gospel of the Redman". Faith and Chaplaincy forum, anyone? (This message has been edited by SSScout)

All together , now.... WIN ALL YOU CAN!!! Ethics and moral behavior really can't be legislated.

Thank you. I thought so too.

Thank you, Stosh, for the short form! I agree, there is no "official" form of ceremony, only precident and tradition. With Cibs, KiS. With older Scouts, add pomp to it but still, KiS. I recently was asked to help organize a flag presentation at a local Mosque at a 9-11 remembrance. We had many local politicos, veterans and police and firefighters in attendance, and they asked the Scouts to do the flag presentation to open things. I put the word out to the District and garnered a dozen Scouts. I collected a US flag, a State one and a County flag. We met one hour early, parceled out the flags, got'em all in order, assigned a Color guard (yeah, we used that term), a Captain, rehearsed it twice, got our cues set with the MC, then they opened the doors and let everyone in. It went well, very impressive, if I do say so myself. After all the formalities, speeches, songs, blessings, prayers and testimonials, when it came time to retrieve the colors, the US flag came back to formation LAST, then they marched out. The US flag was in the proper position for the march out (2 abreast), but was walked in LAST of the three. After all was done, one of the police in attendance, a BIG fellow, came up to me and thanked me for the Scouts being there, but did I know the US flag really should be FIRST in the formation at all times (he was an exMarine). I said I thought so, but we are amateurs, after all. He said it was all good, none the less. Bugle story: I was asked to do "Call to the Colors" at the first raising of the flag at the dedication of a new Scout camp some years ago. I dutifully praciced and got my lip in shape. They wanted the "long" version (!). When the time came, I put horn to lip and COULD NOT remember the start of the tune. I ended up doing the French "Avec Le Colour", which I had learned as a Scout watching Captain Gallant (Buster Crabb) on TV. No one said a thing to me, one way or another.