SSScout

Here it is again.... If you own a restaurant, you don't so much worry about attracting the FIRST time customer as making sure they come back the SECOND and THIRD time and tell their friends about your beef stew. It's the same thing here. It is not so much why the parent might want the boy to join, but why would the boy want to STAY in Scouts? A boy doesn't join Scouts to "learn to make good ethical and moral decisions". Good googamooga. He joins to have fun, to have some adventure, to get dirty and pee in the woods. He joins because his buddy has told him about the white water raft trip he went on last fall. He STAYS because he went camping on the AT in the spring and got wet and exhausted on the canoe trip. If he learns to make ANY kind of decisions, whether they are ethical or moral, it will happen because he will be the recipient of the result of any BAD decisions he makes. Us adults should be there to be life guards, not so much tour guides. The Patrol Method is hard to implement not only because the adults won't leave wel enough alone, but also because the boys don't believe it when it is offered to them. From school, to parent, to community, everyone seems to tell our kids "no you can't". And they wonder at the lack of personal responsibilty exhibited by many kids at older ages.

Why our Troop doesn't sell PC: 1) Don't want to compete with Cub Pack (council champs!) 2) PC not perceived as Boy Scouty. PC is Cub Scouty. 3) Long time tradition of Christmas/holiday tree and wreath sales (use to do fresh, hot, donuts door to door on a saturday morn) 4) FoS promotion perceived as appropriate fund raise, as ALL goes to Council, to support camps, etc.. 5) PC product perceived as waaay over priced for what you receive. Better PC for less at Safeway, donate cash to Scouts directly (seems to happen alot at the sidewalk sales). Definitely perceived as a donation, as reported by CS Pack. 6) Even working with the Salesmanship MB, the boys still prefer the wreath sales. Prices are comparable to local store sales, but product seems better and prettier. 7) Scoutship does big spaghetti dinner once a year. Folks in the community look for it in October each year. No need for PC. More fun, too.

Oh, sore point indeed. Both I and Scoutson bemoan the lack of outdoorsy stuff in the present BSHB and FB compared to the older versions . I xerox pages out of the 1952 ed. of the FB (thank you, GBB) for my IOLS presentations. The council recently declared they would not reimburse for copying, but would do it for me for free, all I have to do is email it to the DE, and he will see to it. So , I learned how to scan, file, order, and divide the sent pages (too big a file for one email). Guess how that went?I still had to copy a bunch, reorder/collate them, staple them and three hole punch them. Even if the boys in the pictures look like they came from "Follow Me Boys" rather than "Glee", the pictures of axe use and fire building are classically simple and illustrative. The pages I supply are, in the words of my IOLS director, "value added". And then we have the OTHER IOLS director who wanted me to teach the Totin' Chip to our adult Scouters and then award the Totin' Chip to them. When I noted that adults cannot "earn" youth awards, she said that was not a concern, that the adults should have the "experience" so they can help the youth better....

Winningest adult unlimited car: Take standard PWD block, cut diagonal from front bottom edge to top rear edge, making a wedge. Round front corners, sand smooth all around. Install suitably polished axles and cleaned up "detailed" wheels, graphite/moly disulphided as allowed. Find a BIG bolt, about 3 or 4 oz. all by itself, and glue it far back on the top rear of the wedge, balanced such that the front wheels barely touch the track surface. Adjust bolt size to weight specs. For appearance sake, one can drill a hole in the rear of the wedge to accomodate the bolt. Watch it roll.....

Yes, a good feeling is understood and appropriate. Sounds like Comishoner material to me....

*sigh* See previous postings about redistricting "to better serve our youth". We are recreating three chapters out of one big one. Lodge (council) is, I think, unaffected. I say recreating because about three years ago, the reverse happened. We wish you well, brother.

Example.... Instruction.... working as a team.... learning that my goof off affects others.... mom won't be there to pick up my pieces when I'm grown.... taking pride in my own accomplishments, no matter how mundane or small they may be.... pushing myself a little bit farther (a LOT farther?).... I sub taught a PE class today... The first four periods were fun and the kids were cooperative. First three periods, they played table tennis in a tournament set up and the last two periods , we played a neat game called "blind volleyball". Problems began in the last period of the day. The boys did not want to cooperate or play by the rules. Girls (yes, it's coed, middle school) just followed along, so 15 minutes into the class I had to say "that's it! Boys to the lockerroom! Girls to your lockerroom!" I sat the boys down on the lockerroom floor and laid into them about everything from respect for themselves to mom and dad's taxes to why folks laugh at things to irrelevant comments to paying your way when you are grown and why are you HERE? (three possibilities)? And why are you so interested in Ted's footwear? Is it important for everyone to pay attention to YOU and not the teacher? I could see all of them were really surprised by my reaction to their "youthful exhuberance". Meanwhile, one of the regular PE teachers listened in the next door glassed in office. I could see some of them took in my diatribe with some seriousness, some kept giggling about it. "Hey , we get your message, can we go back in and play some ball?" What do you think? To some of them, this was truly a new thing. A sub teacher with an attitude and expectations? Detention? Hearing instructions? Following them? Doing what was asked AND expected? Me? Yes, you. I found I actually felt good when I was done. By done, I mean the end of the school day. I quit when they had 5 minutes left to street dress and get ready to depart school. The regular teacher told me I did good. He said, yeah, some of them "got it" and some never would, but I did the right thing here. PE class? A taught subject? Learn teamwork, handeye coordination, following instructions, having fun doing it, language arts, responsibility for one's actions, self control, helping others along the way, ... almost sounds like Scouting....without the camping.(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"Boys, I know sometimes you might think my Scoutmaster minutes are BOOOORRRRRiNNNG, but tonite I need to ask you an important question. When you email, or text someone, do you express yourself there the same way you would face to face? Or do you say things differently? Use, ummm, stronger language? Maybe try to act more, say, grown up because you think you can and not be called to task for it? Texting and email and such are NOT anonymous. Your name, your "cred" is attached. You know, the words you use, ANYWHERE, reflect on your reputation, doesn't matter whether they are vocal or electronic or on paper. If you are the source of words, say what you mean and mean what you say,but be ready to OWN them. Be ready to DEFEND them. Be ready to take the CONSEQUENCES for them. A Scout is Trustworthy and THAT means I am what I say. Now, go home and tell your mother you love her. Good night."

E: The flag will be put away in the Scout drawer, or framed and hung on the wall, or sewn onto the back of a jacket or.... The WBC that I staffed got "gifted" by some of the participants, but it was all privately done. One fellow made keychain wood pill holders (for lack of a better term)for all 20 of us(!), wood-burned with the date and WBC# . I received an engraved plastic garden trowel from one man who said he really liked my bugling (I was on QM staff, too). Several of the TGs received the signed patrol flag. Such was neither encouraged, spoken of nor decried. We accepted them graciously and said good bye and good luck to everyone.

"Well it ends" No, it doesn't. Even from the postings on this thread, I know it will not end for you. Scouting isn't about the beads (contrary to what you might observe). Or the patches (bumper sticker: "Will work for colorful scraps of cloth"). Or the singing with folks we've met along the way. It is for the boys, and you know that. This is just a bump on the road, and not a major historic marker to stop and read. I join with the others here and bemoan the lack of Scout spirit your WB staff seem to have exhibited. My WB TG was anything but non-supportive. When I thought I had most of my stuff completed, he emailed and phoned me many times to fine tune the result. When I didn't think I had finished the final ticket, he assured me that I had, that I had done all I could, and what I thought was a lack of finality was only a lack of appreciation by the rest of my District. Strange to tell, I signed no final papers, only received the certificate (wallet card, really) and arranged for beading at an upcoming Troop CoH. Use your talents, have fun, and wash your hands before meals....

We have three cats. Each has it's own neurosis, but all have learned to behave at meal time. Instead of going bonkers and tripping us up as we try to fill their bowls, we say "Get Back!" and they all move over and sit (!) behind the dishwasher. When the bowls are filled and on the floor, they come forward to eat.

Here it is again, that game... "what if..." What if I turned things off, What if I walked instead of drove... What if I slept under another blanket and lowered the thermostat another degree or two... http://www.earth-policy.org/ Cloth diapers vs disposable. Not only an economic/ecological decision, but one of philosophy and (dare I say it) faith? Stewardship for God's creation? Always thought I would have liked to try the Baby Box of Mr. Skinner, as being ecologically sound... http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp

Yes, I agree. Would you please save your pop tops so we can buy time on the kydney dialysis machine?

JB: Firstly, "business" can be defined alot of ways. The EP must benefit a "non-profit" entity, so that kind of limits the definition. A restaurant might enjoy the idea of a set of benches being installed in front, but that would not be a good EP idea, IMHO. Benches installed in a church's memorial garden might be more appropriate. Secondly, fundraising for support of a EP can take many guises. Cash is always good; see the above discussions. But other donations are equally likely and acceptable: scout dad donates his time and skidloader to the effort (does EP pay for fuel?). Materials donated outright by supporters (lumber, gravel, etc. ) can be significant. How to account for them in the budget? The cash worth could be tallied as a tax donation to the beneficiary, but often in my experience, the donor doesn't make a deal of it. Recent EP up here , the candidate approached the beneficiary about some improvements to their property (not merely maintenance), worked up the plans, eatimated the materials needed, boyhours needed and submitted all to the beneficary and Troop committee. Beneficiary liked what they saw, told the Scout THEY would provide ALL the materials (discounted from their suppliers), AND lunch for the crew. Troop Com. signed off, saying all to the good. District EAdvisor said, very clever, no problem. No fund raising needed. Project will proceed next month, weather permitting. Bottom line: Scout should do the planning, budgetiing, fundraise as necessary to accomplish the project, accomplish the project and all should accrue to the benefit of the non-profit organization.

Here we are discussing Youth Protection, and the ad to my right is for a "Vampire Attacks" video game.

History: Youth are occasionally sexually assaulted by adults that have only their own desires and drives (however created) considered, and are thereby physically and psychologically injured, thru no fault of their own. This predation is often not immediately recognized or admitted for what it is. Youth and parents in the past have often not been aware of what to do or how to react. This has led to legal suits and monetary loss for many organizations (not just BSA)because "they should've known better". Desire: (1)Protect our youth from such sexual predation. (2)Catch and punish (or rehabilitate?) such predators. (3) prevent financial loss. Method: (1)Educate our youth and parents and leaders to recognize and react to the symptoms and clues of such behavior. No one should have to say, "I didn't know what to do". This is akin to teaching first aid. How does one react to an injury? How to prevent such an injury in the future? Hardhats, heavy gloves, double switches on stamp presses, rubber mats, xray machines at airports, inspection standards for school bus brakes, all seek to do the same thing: prevent injuries that have occurred in the past. YPT shares the same idea: We know what happened in the past, we therefore know how to prevent it. (2) Arrange the physical environment to prevent the appearance or actual act from happening. SM conferences in open, visible areas. Eliminate communal showers, make them youth only, adult only. Design policies for camping and hiking (two deep, no adult/child tenting, etc.). YPT may not prevent the pedophile from plying his/her "hobby" (shudder) but it may help others from ignoring the signs and thereby give the pedofile second thoughts about doing it in a Scout context. (3) Make it easy and EXPECTED that problems, acts, and questionable behavior will be reported to the authorities, both civil and BSA, for investigation and resulting reaction. Again, first aid: here's the injury, here's how one should react to it. (4) YPT should also give our adult leaders pause to make sure there is no possibility of even the appearance of a chance of wrong behavior. Make the possibility as remote as possible. The perpetrator might not want to "take a chance", knowing so many educated (trained?) eyes are watching. I have had the "two deep" conversation more than onceabout trip planning. It colors all I do in youth connected venues. Our Meeting has put in place YPT policies in no small part because of the BSA YPT my good wife took in Cub Scouts. She went so far as to purchase and show the video tape at discussions held about installing windows in classroom doors, making it NOT an automatic acceptance when a persn volunteers to teach First Day School, asking YF chaparones and camp staff to be criminally checked. The insurance company ended up insisting on such. Is BSA doing the CYA thing? Absolutely, but the need and desire from the parents drove it, I think. At least now, BSA can point to the YPT and say"see? We have done thjis much to prevent and protect." I am ultimately thankful.

Exactly what fred sed. Go to your local pizza place/popeye's/KFC/etc. Bet you get a deal or even a "donation" toward your project's support.

Just got back from a cabin camp with Troop... Boy actually using a hatchet the first time and the pride in his eyes...(another boy had the hatchet handle break on him. Boy, did he feel guilty!, even tho it wasn't) Got a bunch of them outside and when I said "just listen...", they did. And heard the nuthatch and blue jays and crows... City boy did listen, and when a deer burst out of a briar thicket, he admitted to me later, "that was sooo cool". Had two boys actually volunteer to say grace before meals. Future Chaplain Aides.

We are a Scout Troop that helps out (and runs!) our brother Pack's (same CO) PWD. The Pack uses the rules in the PWD kits. No discussion, thems the rules. We have three areas at the Derby: (1)a "Pit Area" for last minute adjustments and to correct problems. We make sure there is an "unofficial scale", tape, glue, some spare wheels and axles and some basic tools. (2) the "Official Check In". The Scout(s) here give the car a visual inspection(only kit wheels, nail axles, no radical modifications to the basic setup), make sure the car fits into the "dimension box" ,scales at 5.00 ounces or less. Each car is given a small number sticker on the bottom or rear and logged in as to ownership and Den. The car is then CAREFULLY placed in the "Ready" area, and segregated as to class: Cub and Den, or Sibling or Unlimited (adult!). (3) the race way is roped off and limited only to the Officials running the race. One can sit close to, about 3 feet away, on the "Infield" floor, or in the "Grandstand" chairs. Scoutmaster IT professional handles the scoring, which is projected on a screen in back of the Start Line. We do a multi-elimination race, so each car will race at least four times. Electric timer, attached to the track, eliminates all arguments about finish. Scout working on Communication MB is usually announcer, and is encouraged to ham it up: ("ARE YOU READDYYYYY TO RAAAAACE?"). The Pack has a prize for almost every conceivable category. Almost. There are some last places, after all. The Pack hands out one PWD kit to the boys before Christmas and it is made clear ("Scout's Honor") that the car should be designed and made by Cub, with adult help, as needed. Wecunderstand that it may well be adult formed, but we hope with Cub supervision! We do not question as to who made the car , if it is in the Cub Class. RARELY has a car been DQ'd due to non-BSA wheels or axle. Along with the B&G, the PWD is definitely a high point of the year. But then, that's just the way we do it. You do it YOUR way, and have fun!

""GOD (Do ONE of the following): WAYS WE WORSHIP Complete both requirements:. >Complete the Character Connection for Faith Know:. >Name some people in history who have shown great faith. >Discuss with an adult how faith has been important at a particular point in his or her life. Commit:. >Discuss with an adult how having faith and hope will help you in your life, and also discuss some ways that you can strengthen your faith. Practice:. >Practice your faith as you are taught in your home, church, synagogue, mosque, or religious fellowship. >Make a list of things you can do this week to practice your religion as you are taught in your home, church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious community. Check them off your list as you complete them. EMBLEMS OF FAITH Complete the requirement:. Earn the Religious Emblem of your faith. "" The Emblems of Faith is not an activity for the Den to do, UNLESS all the boys are of ONE faith and all the families agree to it. Each faith has its own religious award, approved by the appropriate authority, and by definition needs to be taught and earned with and awarded by the faith organization, whether church, temple, mosque or synagogue. The Den Leader cannot fill that role appropriately, unless approved by the faith leader from that faith. The Way We Worship, by rights, should be done and approved by the boy's family. The Den Leader can encourage and remind, but really should not attempt to lead this requirement without the family's agreement. To do so really sounds like overt evangelizing, which no Scout leader should ever be accused of. If the leaders (priests, ministers, Deacons, Elders, whomever) of the various faiths represented in your Den look at the material in the God and Me material and find it in agreement with their dogma and are agreeable with you leading the Cubs thru the material, then go to it. But I consel not going ahead without that impimatur. Refer any folks so interested to www.praypub.org for just about all faith info or reference. Some have their award listed, but not the "lesson" book, which must be obtained from the faith HQ. Most local diocese,or district or whatever are aware of the Scout awards, but not all local clergy. Education is a good thing. When in doubt about such things, defer to the parents, always. Godspeed.

Q: I like that idea. Who picks the words/writes the cards? How difficult/involved can they be? Organic gardening? Tides? Mario brothers? String theory?

Yes, pummeling the prostrate equine. Look thru any BL from the prehistoric 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s. BSA shoes (Buster Brown!), BSA BB guns (Daisy), BSA hats of various types, even BSA Kelty pack frames. Tweek the design a little and make it a BSA item. Didn't Woolrich make the Red JacShirt? Now it's green and... We don't even hava a name to attach to it, just "China". The antique book I keep reffering to (Matching Mountains with the Boy Scout Uniform by Edward F. Reimer,1929) makes constant mention of the Sigmund Eisner Co. of Red Bank NJ, "Official National Outfitter", and how any clothing without THAT signature on it MAY be of inferior quality. The boy may not have the same feeling for the item us older Scouts have. Way back when, I don't remember being concerned about who made my uni. But I do remember that it felt different than the shirts I wear today. My boy shirt had a heft to it. Kinda like the heavy flannels I have now. If it is "official" and he HAS to wear it, I suppose that is enough for today's boy. Or is it?

Ah, E bemoan not the loss of a name for an area. You have dented the lives of umpteen young (no more!) men, and they are glad of it, even if not conscious of it. Thru the 12 plus years of my adult Scout career, I have been (unwittingly) a member of (in my county) one of three, then six, then ONE, then three sub districts, then one of three real districts, with lots of cooperation and interactive activities intended. I have interacted and worked with no fewer than eight DEs and a Regional Director or two, who had to fill in when there was no DE to be had to assign to our area. Remember Bob the Tomato, tho he be neither Scout nor even human, when he said (animationally) "It's for the kids". Altho, yeah, I sometimes tell the Scouters I counsel (not council!) that they can easily operate a quality program without the knowledge that there is such a construct as a "District". It is there for the benefit of the local unit. If it does not benefit the local unit, then dunworryboutit.

Kudu often reminds us of the wording of the original Congressional Charter. We all know the BSA Promise and Law, which we regularly reaffirm, both publicly and privately. We should all know the "official" Eight (9?) Methods of Scouting. There is the Mission Statement and the Vision Statement (fairly recent, each). And of late, we have discussed the recent (alledged) despoilment of the O/A by it's becoming a "Honor Scout Society" rather than a "Honor Camper" society. Too much Bling? Bling for the wrong purpose? Bling in the wrong place? Bling unappreciated? Unearned? Bare uniform vs south american general's uniform? I am beginning to think this is all somehow related. Symptoms of the general social malaise? Need for more "look at me! Look at me!" ? Jealousy of those that haven't vs those that shouldn't have but did? Things I have heard/discerned from eavesdropping, asking questions, discussion with boys and other adults (anecdotal): Why do boys join Scouts? >Heard it was fun... >Want to go camping/hiking/rock climbing like my brother/dad... >Mom made me... >My buddy asked me, friends were there... >Got nothing else to do... >Church youth ministry, (see #2)... Why do they stay in Scouts? See above, and... >It is fun... >I like getting awards I can earn myself... >I learn stuff that's useful... >Get to go/do stuff other kids don't... >I like to see mom/pop smile... >Like hanging out with my buds... >I get to boss little kids around... > Didn't expect it, but other guys are jealous of me... >My girl thinks it's awesome, the stuff we do... >Eagle looks good on the resume/college app/job app... Older Scouts sometimes admit, the leadership/organization practice is good. The service to others? Seems to come up last on the listing, but I have rarely (if ever) heard a Scout say they WON'T when asked to help in a service project. Folks learn from example as much as by instruction. We want the boys to be "boy led", but they still need to see and feel the example of "selfless service". From whom? If the O/A is to be a "Scout Honor" society to recognize and reward those Scouts that exemplify the ideals of Scouting, so be it. If the O/A is there to point out boys that "get it" about selfless service, then let that happen and don't be surprised when the O/A is never a BIG organization. Pocket flaps and sashes: Some folks will always want recognition. Others just want to do the job and feel good about that. Isn't there some inherent conflict about these things? Some rewards you work for , some are awarded because others think you deserve them, without you specifically EARNING them, altho you do. It was snowing here in Murlin awhile ago, now the suns bright again...

""No. You can be 100% skeptical of the works of others, and do them yourself. It's common to reproduce experiments in science classes and have the students do them."" Exactly my point. By reproducing experiments, and thus re-proving the results, one convinces oneself of the truth of the matter, thus believing the teacher. If the test does not agree with the teacher's lesson, that SHOULD lead to another discussion, yes? Thanks for agreeing with me. ""Nonsense. You can simply say you don't believe it. You don't have to come up with an alternative."" Well, yes you do. The choice is to either agree with the teacher outright, and get an "A", or don't agree (and keep it to yourself: see Galileo and the Inquisition), or see if you can find an alternative argument that makes sense to yourself if not the teacher. Ultimately, everyone has to have an explanation as to how the universe operates. At least our own little part of it. ""Or have the student do the actual experiments and write up the observations. That can be even better."" Exactly so. That is what I mean by "joining in the debate". It is never a good thing to say "that's the way it is, end of discussion", unless the discussion is between you and your 8 year old son, then, sometimes one must pull rank! ""Faith has no right or wrong answers. People don't agree on the most basic questions, like how many gods exist, or whether polygamy is permitted."" Oh, come on, Merlyn, you know all faiths have "right or wrong" answers. That's what a faith is all about! It's science that has no absolutes, except what can be proven to our senses. Our knowledge and the science involved is always open to revision. We are constantly re-proving the gravity constant of (about) 9.8 m/sec sq. And you can't really find it surprising that folks 'don't agree' , again, that's what religion is all about. I don't expect my Christianity to be the same as a Roman Catholic's, but I admit to them both being a form of Christianity..Well, as I think about it, not all Roman Catholics might agree that Quakerism IS a form of Christianity. But some I know do. Why should you? Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chence, as the carny barker would say. Unfortunately, religions do have wars over the differences, where scientists only tend to "backstab" the folks they disagree with about which way the DNA spiral curves, or who has the best electrical supply system. My Muslim friend tells me that the strife between the Sunni and Shiite is "political" and not "religious" in nature. I tend to believe him more than Fox news.