SSScout

Seattle, this is what it's all about. My only quibble is the title of this thread, as this is not an "alternate" , this IS the PWD as it should be: Boy centered, not just 'win' centered. And, yes, some dads will try to make it a live-my-life-thru-the boy. Best way around that is, as always, have a "unlimited" class. KIS MIF as always.

So we waded thru the chartering process, the DE and Council are happy, the DE calls and sez he has the Charters for the units I commish. Goody. I pick'em up. Now I call the Church Pastor, the CO IH (!) and say, " Howdy! I'd like to present you with the Charters for the 4 Scout units the church sponsors " and she says "Huh?" and we go and have a really good conversation. For the first time in many years, I arrange to have a formal presentation at one of the church services (sorry, didn't make Scout sunday). Correlate and coordinate the leaders (CM,SM,VCPrez., SShip Skipper) and have a nice Scout talk about the units here at the church. Each speaks alittle about their part, and the Pastor accepts the Charters (suitable for framing) and presto! We have a new presence in the CO. Shake hands with mucho folks afterward. How do YOU do it? Or wish it were done?

Since I have learned about the GS model, I have marveled at how successful they have been. As I have come to understand the BSA model, I have marveled at how much trouble we sometimes seem to engender. Once upon a time, I was a CM. We were going to have a JS night, so we rented the elementary school AProom and then thought, hey, let's invite the GS to join us, Brownies and Cubs, fun, more the merrier, recruit Scouts, right? Contacted the local GS leader (who was also the PTA president), made the invitation, and she said, quote, "oh, no, we have enough Girl Scouts, we don't want any more". I later learned of the one GS Troop, one number, one leader model (local Service area/Council "owns" it) and when compared to the BSA franchise model saw the wisdom of making a local organization responsible (no matter how closely or loosely held), I marveled that the GSA has existed as long as it has. BSA Scout units are by definition, multi age, self replicating entities. My home Troop is approaching 60 years old. RARELY does a GSUSA unit exist more that 10 years. The Daisies and Brownies are the unit that exists until (1) the leader(s) quit (it happens) and no one takes up the reins or (2) the original girls tire of the leader's program (they define it, not the national org) or (3) the girls graduate. Then that Troop ceases. Definitely, the BSA model is superior, as to local control with national standards. I think Mssrs. Beard and West had the right idea. GBBill, too, but that's another thread.

What Calico said..... Again, the first time customer is easy to get: past use recommendations, past reputation, special offers, pep talks, personal needs (however perceived), any business (and Scouting IS a business, even if a volunteer one) can get the FIRST visit. It's the SECOND and THIRD and FORTH visit you want. And that is obtained by good service, value for your money, meeting the customer's expectations and needs. In Scouting, we have two customers: the KID and the PARENT. Each has a different expectation and desire. The kid wants fun, a little adventure and perhaps , later, pride in accomplishment and skills gained. The parent wants (?) a sitter service, better behavior (thru our requiring responsibility for one's actions), outlet for energy, skills gained (cooking? knot tying? history learned?), and later, pride in their urchin's maturity gained. I hope. If the server (the dragon lady) is NOT serving these needs, but instead serving her own misguided desires, then guess what? the customer goes away, or finds another place to meet their needs: Heritage Girls, Yawana, Campfire, YMCA, wherever. Do the deed. Find this lady another job or just say"thank you for your past service" and give her the (metaphoric) Gold Watch. We know we have a good product. "They" know we have a good product. But if the product is corrrupted with a poor interpretation or other distention or misinterpretation, "they" will not come back. "If we build it, they will come", but they don't necessarily have to stay or come back .

Beat me to it. See the attached link for a neat compendium of PB video...

* Not that your Cub shirt has the same instruction tag, but I recently purchased a shirt that had the following "care instructions" on it: "Remove clothing article before washing and ironing. Wash in water, warm, with mild soap. Iron if needed, cool setting to avoid melting cloth".

Mebbe not so far fetched. Scout met animal ID requirement by cellphone picturing birds and tracks and signs to show to ASM. Not just in person any more... *sigh*

Here it is again.... If you own a restaurant, you don't so much worry about attracting the FIRST time customer as making sure they come back the SECOND and THIRD time and tell their friends about your beef stew. It's the same thing here. It is not so much why the parent might want the boy to join, but why would the boy want to STAY in Scouts? A boy doesn't join Scouts to "learn to make good ethical and moral decisions". Good googamooga. He joins to have fun, to have some adventure, to get dirty and pee in the woods. He joins because his buddy has told him about the white water raft trip he went on last fall. He STAYS because he went camping on the AT in the spring and got wet and exhausted on the canoe trip. If he learns to make ANY kind of decisions, whether they are ethical or moral, it will happen because he will be the recipient of the result of any BAD decisions he makes. Us adults should be there to be life guards, not so much tour guides. The Patrol Method is hard to implement not only because the adults won't leave wel enough alone, but also because the boys don't believe it when it is offered to them. From school, to parent, to community, everyone seems to tell our kids "no you can't". And they wonder at the lack of personal responsibilty exhibited by many kids at older ages.

Why our Troop doesn't sell PC: 1) Don't want to compete with Cub Pack (council champs!) 2) PC not perceived as Boy Scouty. PC is Cub Scouty. 3) Long time tradition of Christmas/holiday tree and wreath sales (use to do fresh, hot, donuts door to door on a saturday morn) 4) FoS promotion perceived as appropriate fund raise, as ALL goes to Council, to support camps, etc.. 5) PC product perceived as waaay over priced for what you receive. Better PC for less at Safeway, donate cash to Scouts directly (seems to happen alot at the sidewalk sales). Definitely perceived as a donation, as reported by CS Pack. 6) Even working with the Salesmanship MB, the boys still prefer the wreath sales. Prices are comparable to local store sales, but product seems better and prettier. 7) Scoutship does big spaghetti dinner once a year. Folks in the community look for it in October each year. No need for PC. More fun, too.

Oh, sore point indeed. Both I and Scoutson bemoan the lack of outdoorsy stuff in the present BSHB and FB compared to the older versions . I xerox pages out of the 1952 ed. of the FB (thank you, GBB) for my IOLS presentations. The council recently declared they would not reimburse for copying, but would do it for me for free, all I have to do is email it to the DE, and he will see to it. So , I learned how to scan, file, order, and divide the sent pages (too big a file for one email). Guess how that went?I still had to copy a bunch, reorder/collate them, staple them and three hole punch them. Even if the boys in the pictures look like they came from "Follow Me Boys" rather than "Glee", the pictures of axe use and fire building are classically simple and illustrative. The pages I supply are, in the words of my IOLS director, "value added". And then we have the OTHER IOLS director who wanted me to teach the Totin' Chip to our adult Scouters and then award the Totin' Chip to them. When I noted that adults cannot "earn" youth awards, she said that was not a concern, that the adults should have the "experience" so they can help the youth better....

Winningest adult unlimited car: Take standard PWD block, cut diagonal from front bottom edge to top rear edge, making a wedge. Round front corners, sand smooth all around. Install suitably polished axles and cleaned up "detailed" wheels, graphite/moly disulphided as allowed. Find a BIG bolt, about 3 or 4 oz. all by itself, and glue it far back on the top rear of the wedge, balanced such that the front wheels barely touch the track surface. Adjust bolt size to weight specs. For appearance sake, one can drill a hole in the rear of the wedge to accomodate the bolt. Watch it roll.....

Yes, a good feeling is understood and appropriate. Sounds like Comishoner material to me....

*sigh* See previous postings about redistricting "to better serve our youth". We are recreating three chapters out of one big one. Lodge (council) is, I think, unaffected. I say recreating because about three years ago, the reverse happened. We wish you well, brother.

Example.... Instruction.... working as a team.... learning that my goof off affects others.... mom won't be there to pick up my pieces when I'm grown.... taking pride in my own accomplishments, no matter how mundane or small they may be.... pushing myself a little bit farther (a LOT farther?).... I sub taught a PE class today... The first four periods were fun and the kids were cooperative. First three periods, they played table tennis in a tournament set up and the last two periods , we played a neat game called "blind volleyball". Problems began in the last period of the day. The boys did not want to cooperate or play by the rules. Girls (yes, it's coed, middle school) just followed along, so 15 minutes into the class I had to say "that's it! Boys to the lockerroom! Girls to your lockerroom!" I sat the boys down on the lockerroom floor and laid into them about everything from respect for themselves to mom and dad's taxes to why folks laugh at things to irrelevant comments to paying your way when you are grown and why are you HERE? (three possibilities)? And why are you so interested in Ted's footwear? Is it important for everyone to pay attention to YOU and not the teacher? I could see all of them were really surprised by my reaction to their "youthful exhuberance". Meanwhile, one of the regular PE teachers listened in the next door glassed in office. I could see some of them took in my diatribe with some seriousness, some kept giggling about it. "Hey , we get your message, can we go back in and play some ball?" What do you think? To some of them, this was truly a new thing. A sub teacher with an attitude and expectations? Detention? Hearing instructions? Following them? Doing what was asked AND expected? Me? Yes, you. I found I actually felt good when I was done. By done, I mean the end of the school day. I quit when they had 5 minutes left to street dress and get ready to depart school. The regular teacher told me I did good. He said, yeah, some of them "got it" and some never would, but I did the right thing here. PE class? A taught subject? Learn teamwork, handeye coordination, following instructions, having fun doing it, language arts, responsibility for one's actions, self control, helping others along the way, ... almost sounds like Scouting....without the camping.(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"Boys, I know sometimes you might think my Scoutmaster minutes are BOOOORRRRRiNNNG, but tonite I need to ask you an important question. When you email, or text someone, do you express yourself there the same way you would face to face? Or do you say things differently? Use, ummm, stronger language? Maybe try to act more, say, grown up because you think you can and not be called to task for it? Texting and email and such are NOT anonymous. Your name, your "cred" is attached. You know, the words you use, ANYWHERE, reflect on your reputation, doesn't matter whether they are vocal or electronic or on paper. If you are the source of words, say what you mean and mean what you say,but be ready to OWN them. Be ready to DEFEND them. Be ready to take the CONSEQUENCES for them. A Scout is Trustworthy and THAT means I am what I say. Now, go home and tell your mother you love her. Good night."

E: The flag will be put away in the Scout drawer, or framed and hung on the wall, or sewn onto the back of a jacket or.... The WBC that I staffed got "gifted" by some of the participants, but it was all privately done. One fellow made keychain wood pill holders (for lack of a better term)for all 20 of us(!), wood-burned with the date and WBC# . I received an engraved plastic garden trowel from one man who said he really liked my bugling (I was on QM staff, too). Several of the TGs received the signed patrol flag. Such was neither encouraged, spoken of nor decried. We accepted them graciously and said good bye and good luck to everyone.

"Well it ends" No, it doesn't. Even from the postings on this thread, I know it will not end for you. Scouting isn't about the beads (contrary to what you might observe). Or the patches (bumper sticker: "Will work for colorful scraps of cloth"). Or the singing with folks we've met along the way. It is for the boys, and you know that. This is just a bump on the road, and not a major historic marker to stop and read. I join with the others here and bemoan the lack of Scout spirit your WB staff seem to have exhibited. My WB TG was anything but non-supportive. When I thought I had most of my stuff completed, he emailed and phoned me many times to fine tune the result. When I didn't think I had finished the final ticket, he assured me that I had, that I had done all I could, and what I thought was a lack of finality was only a lack of appreciation by the rest of my District. Strange to tell, I signed no final papers, only received the certificate (wallet card, really) and arranged for beading at an upcoming Troop CoH. Use your talents, have fun, and wash your hands before meals....

We have three cats. Each has it's own neurosis, but all have learned to behave at meal time. Instead of going bonkers and tripping us up as we try to fill their bowls, we say "Get Back!" and they all move over and sit (!) behind the dishwasher. When the bowls are filled and on the floor, they come forward to eat.

Here it is again, that game... "what if..." What if I turned things off, What if I walked instead of drove... What if I slept under another blanket and lowered the thermostat another degree or two... http://www.earth-policy.org/ Cloth diapers vs disposable. Not only an economic/ecological decision, but one of philosophy and (dare I say it) faith? Stewardship for God's creation? Always thought I would have liked to try the Baby Box of Mr. Skinner, as being ecologically sound... http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp

Yes, I agree. Would you please save your pop tops so we can buy time on the kydney dialysis machine?

JB: Firstly, "business" can be defined alot of ways. The EP must benefit a "non-profit" entity, so that kind of limits the definition. A restaurant might enjoy the idea of a set of benches being installed in front, but that would not be a good EP idea, IMHO. Benches installed in a church's memorial garden might be more appropriate. Secondly, fundraising for support of a EP can take many guises. Cash is always good; see the above discussions. But other donations are equally likely and acceptable: scout dad donates his time and skidloader to the effort (does EP pay for fuel?). Materials donated outright by supporters (lumber, gravel, etc. ) can be significant. How to account for them in the budget? The cash worth could be tallied as a tax donation to the beneficiary, but often in my experience, the donor doesn't make a deal of it. Recent EP up here , the candidate approached the beneficiary about some improvements to their property (not merely maintenance), worked up the plans, eatimated the materials needed, boyhours needed and submitted all to the beneficary and Troop committee. Beneficiary liked what they saw, told the Scout THEY would provide ALL the materials (discounted from their suppliers), AND lunch for the crew. Troop Com. signed off, saying all to the good. District EAdvisor said, very clever, no problem. No fund raising needed. Project will proceed next month, weather permitting. Bottom line: Scout should do the planning, budgetiing, fundraise as necessary to accomplish the project, accomplish the project and all should accrue to the benefit of the non-profit organization.

Here we are discussing Youth Protection, and the ad to my right is for a "Vampire Attacks" video game.

History: Youth are occasionally sexually assaulted by adults that have only their own desires and drives (however created) considered, and are thereby physically and psychologically injured, thru no fault of their own. This predation is often not immediately recognized or admitted for what it is. Youth and parents in the past have often not been aware of what to do or how to react. This has led to legal suits and monetary loss for many organizations (not just BSA)because "they should've known better". Desire: (1)Protect our youth from such sexual predation. (2)Catch and punish (or rehabilitate?) such predators. (3) prevent financial loss. Method: (1)Educate our youth and parents and leaders to recognize and react to the symptoms and clues of such behavior. No one should have to say, "I didn't know what to do". This is akin to teaching first aid. How does one react to an injury? How to prevent such an injury in the future? Hardhats, heavy gloves, double switches on stamp presses, rubber mats, xray machines at airports, inspection standards for school bus brakes, all seek to do the same thing: prevent injuries that have occurred in the past. YPT shares the same idea: We know what happened in the past, we therefore know how to prevent it. (2) Arrange the physical environment to prevent the appearance or actual act from happening. SM conferences in open, visible areas. Eliminate communal showers, make them youth only, adult only. Design policies for camping and hiking (two deep, no adult/child tenting, etc.). YPT may not prevent the pedophile from plying his/her "hobby" (shudder) but it may help others from ignoring the signs and thereby give the pedofile second thoughts about doing it in a Scout context. (3) Make it easy and EXPECTED that problems, acts, and questionable behavior will be reported to the authorities, both civil and BSA, for investigation and resulting reaction. Again, first aid: here's the injury, here's how one should react to it. (4) YPT should also give our adult leaders pause to make sure there is no possibility of even the appearance of a chance of wrong behavior. Make the possibility as remote as possible. The perpetrator might not want to "take a chance", knowing so many educated (trained?) eyes are watching. I have had the "two deep" conversation more than onceabout trip planning. It colors all I do in youth connected venues. Our Meeting has put in place YPT policies in no small part because of the BSA YPT my good wife took in Cub Scouts. She went so far as to purchase and show the video tape at discussions held about installing windows in classroom doors, making it NOT an automatic acceptance when a persn volunteers to teach First Day School, asking YF chaparones and camp staff to be criminally checked. The insurance company ended up insisting on such. Is BSA doing the CYA thing? Absolutely, but the need and desire from the parents drove it, I think. At least now, BSA can point to the YPT and say"see? We have done thjis much to prevent and protect." I am ultimately thankful.

Exactly what fred sed. Go to your local pizza place/popeye's/KFC/etc. Bet you get a deal or even a "donation" toward your project's support.

Just got back from a cabin camp with Troop... Boy actually using a hatchet the first time and the pride in his eyes...(another boy had the hatchet handle break on him. Boy, did he feel guilty!, even tho it wasn't) Got a bunch of them outside and when I said "just listen...", they did. And heard the nuthatch and blue jays and crows... City boy did listen, and when a deer burst out of a briar thicket, he admitted to me later, "that was sooo cool". Had two boys actually volunteer to say grace before meals. Future Chaplain Aides.