SSScout

HEY MODERATORS!!!! We Need """A Faith and Chaplaincy """" Forum (or Subforum).... This thread should be moved to the newly established Faith and Chaplaincy Subforum., post haste..... I have to often remind Scouters that BSA is not a Christian organization, altho any Scout Unit may so declare themselves. I have a Troop nearby that requires any prospective member to prove they are a member of a Catholic chufch (not necessarily the sponsoring church). Another Troop is sponsored by a Muslim Mosque, but they have declared that they are willing to accept a Scout not Muslim, so long as the Scout realizes that the Troop will be doing "Muslim things" all the time. That said, BSA does have a "Declaration of Religious etc. " and Our Founder declared (quote) ""Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents' wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, whatever form of religion the boy professes."" And no one has ever said it better since.... If the atheism topic comes up, it is incumbent on the Scout Leader to nod and say "um-mmm" and keep all the possibilities open. Even (even?) atheists can be "reverent", as defined in the Scout Law (older or newer versions not withstanding), and we should allow them to do that.

Work around for the "time out" ::: Write your loooooong response/diatribe/rant/discourse/lecture on a seperate page in your home "documents", then "copy " it and "Paste" it in to the forum response. Do not do any fancy capitols or colors or differences in type face or size. They MAY gum things up. Has worked for me.

O Great Spirit whose voice I hear in the winds And whose breath gives life to all the world, hear me. I come before you as one of your many children . I am small and weak. I need your strength and wisdom. Let me walk in beauty. Make my eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset. Make my hands respect the things you have made And my ears sharp to hear your voice. Make me wise so I may learn the things you have taught my people, the lessons you have hidden under every leaf and rock. I seek strength, not to be superior to my brothers, But to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself. Make me ever ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes, so when life fades like the fading sunset, my spirit will come to you without shame. =attributed to Chief Yellow Lark, Blackfoot =

So I'm answering a thread, and when I hit "POST" I get a box that reads "EDIT COMMENT" "The string you entered for the image verification did not match what was displayed." and the post will not post. Then I notice that I am no longer "signed in". So I sign in again. Go to the thread, make the same answer (no strange punctuation or figures, not too long...) and get the same response (see above.) What happened?

It takes a lot of maturity for middle school kids to get out of the "I'm in the in group" mentality. One has to find their OWN in group. But to not include the Scout Troop, when it is obviously the "lead in" to the party group, that is something the parent-leader needs to address. The daughter has learned this behavior, it is not , I think, innate in the female of the species. Bullying is not always an obvious thing, and the idea that "you need to grow a thicker skin" is not the proper thing to say or insist on to the group. Yes, thicker skins help the victims, but that does not excuse the bully-er. Even parents can be facilitators in such inappropriate behavior. Here's a discussion about it: http://www.dorkdiaries.com/2013/05/what-to-do-when-your-friends-dont-invite-you-to-stuff/ If it was me, I would go to the individual adults of the girls in question and ask them if they were aware of the bad feelings that their girls are engendering in the group? That the cohesiveness and sisterhood of the Troop were at stake? Ask them what their desire was for their kids was? Cooperation? Superiority? Good luck to you and your girls. "We're all in this together. I'm pulling for you".

The previous thread about the BALOO requirement brought out some distinctions that might profit from some further delineations. Here's how I breakdown the camping (maybe I have it right? Maybe not? Do all of these exist?) YPT assumed.... * 1) Scout Camping: By Patrol (KUDU's 300 feet), Troop (adults in the midst and large cooking arrangements), hike in, backpack in, self contained. *1A)Stop and Drop (drive the trailer up and disgorge what is needed). * 2) Webelos camping. Parents in tow? Adults nearby? See above. * 3) Pack Camping BALOO required? Dens? Cubs with parents? Activities planned? Scout-like planning and "being Prepared". * 4) Scout Family Camping Cubs and family and whoever wants to come . Not "roughing it" in the least. Activities may may/not be planned, Scout oversight assumed, though. * 5) Family Camping: The family(ies) go together and NO Scout oversight is present or assumed. Go and do what ever folks want..... * 6) Hybrid: Troop arranges for families to join Scouts in a special trip (like to a beach park), but the parents and siblings know the Scout will be with his Patrol/Troop mostly. Adults plan and cook and arrange things as the "old goat Patrol" or some such. Comments?

Sakatima has the most of it. Agreed to guidlines, with consequences for infractions Apply the consequences as they apply. Routine, and STICK TO IT. Do not allow inappropriate behavior to go unchallenged. Prior to meeting, politely ask for the parents cooperation. Courteously tell them directly of your problems, that you will report to them their sons behavior, if it is disruptive. When necessary, report to the parents, with the Scout present, what he did that was inappropriate and why it cannot be allowed.. In the Den, depending on what the incident is, you can either ignore it and move on, remind the Scout what the rule is and move on or address it directly and tell the Scout it is inappropriate and apply the consequences. try to Reward, rather than punish. Beads in a jar for good behavior, , enough beads at the end of the month, we have a pizza party, that sort of thing. I heard of one Den that had some behavior problems, the Leader did this: She had three candles. mark them with a line so far down. At each meeting, she lit all three. If there was a bad problem, she put a candle out. If the candles burned down past the line, they would have a pizza party, ice cream sundaes, something special. Then, new lines, new chance to earn a treat. All the Scouts will benefit from your fair, firm, just application of these suggestions.

As a side trip, after visiting BSA HQ..... Lee Harvey Oswald has a connection to Irving.... http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/14426

Out of season, Local Council Camp is rented to local Public school district for "Outdoor Ed". It is rented to local Radio Control Airplane modelers. It is rented to folks for "team building " exercises. It is rented to local Jr. College for picnics and bio class. All low cost, but rented. They have a really nice cabin for corporate get togethers: full pro kitchen for caterer, dining area sits about 35. Even has 3 bedrooms with beds and bath. It is promoted to local Scout units (Cubs and Boy) for camping and natue study. Fee is so much per boy, adult leader is free for so many boys. Lots of possibility, if you expand the box, much less think outside it.....

This is a left coast thing. If right coast, it would be "boid a prey"

Our training regime includes all the usual: BALOO, OWLS, IOLS, all the online stuff. The trainers I work with make the following allowances: If you take the full SLST series (donuts and coffee in class room, & overnite weekend) AND some supplemental Cub sections, you have earned the BALOO, OWLS and SLST/IOLS all- in--one. BUT,,,, they DO recommend taking the BALOO seperately, like on the two seperate occasions offered in out home District, or one of the neighboring Districts, OR at University of Scouting, OR at the Cub Round-up, which is sort of a U of Cubs separate from the U of Scouting.... It is all about "The work is done by whoever shows up' and most folks know who is knowledgeable about what. I would not want some of our pros teaching the Scout series, as they have rarely been out in the LNTrenches, so to speak. One I have great respecrt for is a detail guy, good speaker, give you his shirt off his back, but I would be afraid he wouldn't know which end of the hatchet to hold. You can't have too much edy-cashun, as my uncle used to say. You might never need what you were taught, but you can't predict when you WOULD need it.

The BoP trapping sounds like an ongoing program. How is this going to be continued? Is this like a Trail cleanup type of thing?

Along the way, teach'em the Whitlin' Chip. Everyone (boy and girl!) needs to know how to work with their hands and tools. Respect for an edge, confidence in one's own ability to see a task, plan the way to complete it and see it thru to the end can be very useful in the adult life. Find the book "Reverence for Wood" by Eric Sloane, and learn about hand tools, back when there were no power tools.

Awrighty,,,, any more??? Inquiring minds want to be informed....

1/2 inch PVC pipe. Cut into 2inch lengths. Sand smooth, sand off lettering. Glue on appropriate dodad (Matchbox car, cheap compass, AAA battery, dried flower, flashlight bulb, shiny quarter, use thy imagination) and give each person an appropriate award. "Sparkplug" "Go Getter", "Pathfinder" , "Dependable in a pinch", whatever you can come up with. Such as: http://usscouts.org/profbvr/fun_awards/

It was new, and different. It is a high adventure base. It has 10600 acres. It was a 90 minute hike from A camp to the Barrels or Ropes. It was a 90 minute hike from F camp to the Garden Ground, thru A camp. It was a 20 plus minute drive (departing!) from A camp to the rt. 19 gate. It is a big up and down property. Even 100 feet vertical is alot of hiking, (more than once! Not just up and down and done...) and yes, it was no doubt more than a 100 feet difference between all the camps and activities. It will be tough to plan for railroad arrival, if not impossible, (bridge into Thurmond, closest Amtrak station, is too small for busses) so OtR busses will always be the transport of choice. Airports are many miles away. Old map has a spot labeled "President's Helipad", south of the LowGear trails. Hire Ospreys from the Marines?? Feeding 35,000 folks was/is/will be a challenge. Lots of old hands could not come and flesh out the staff, so the staff there often did double duty . The "Voice from the Sky" announcing "WARNING< THIS... IS A LIGHTNING... ALERT" ("puny earthlings!!,,, surrender, resistance is futile!!") was ... interesting.... The swaying Consol Bridge was exciting in the wrong way.... The thousands of smiling boys was some reward (as my wife would say, "how can you pay to volunteer??") . I really can't think of any other place where I will ever again use that duffle . Got a bag of patches and pins and maybe 150 pics on my camera memory.. Got a friend, now, in Gettysburg who will give us a personal tour of the battlefield and museums. Hey, I'll be 70 in 2017...

I offer the following as an example of "planning ahead" and "multitasking" (eating and washing at the same time).... "Courageous Cookery" by John Echo* Once the convert backpacker or cycle camper has accepted the subtle gustatory nuances associated with sustained operations beyond the chrome, he should try the advantages of ultra fringe living so that he will realize what he is paying for his nested pots and pretty pans carried so diligently and brought home so dirty after every "wilderness experience". The following system works. It is dependable and functional. It works on the big rock. It even works when the weather has gone to hell, you are wet and cold and the wind is blowing down the back of your hairy neck. It is not for the timid. It consists of a stove, a six inch sauce pan, a plastic cup and a soup spoon. If you insist on a metal cup, you must never fail to mutter "I'm having fun, I'm having fun", every time you spill the soup on your sleeping bag. Breakfast: Instant wheat cereal-- sugar and powdered milk added-- ready two minutes after water boils. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water, boil, and add powdered eggs and ham. You'll never taste the cereal anyway. In three minutes, eat eggs. Do not wash pot. Add water or snow and boil for tea. Do not wash pot. Most of the residue eggs will come off in the tea water. Make it strong and add sugar. Tastes like tea. Do not wash pot. With reasonable technique, it should be clean. Pack pot in rucksack and enjoy last cup of tea while others are dirtying entire series of nested cookware. Lunch: Boil pot of tea. Have snack of rye bread, cheese and dried beef Continue journey in 10 minutes if necessary. Dinner: Boil pot of water, add Wylers dried vegetable soup and beef bar. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and potatoes from dry potatoe powder. Add gravy mix to taste. Eat potatoes from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and boil for tea. Fortuitous fish or meat can be cooked easily. You do not need oil or fat. Put half inch of water in pot. Add cleaned and salted fish. Do not let water boil away. Eat from pot when done. Process can be done rapidly. Fish can even be browned somewhat by a masterful hand. Do not change menu. Variation only recedes from the optimum. Beginners may be allowed to wash pot once a day for three consecutive days only. It is obvious that burning or sticking food destroys the beauty of the technique. If you insist on carrying a heavier pack, make up the weight you save with extra food. Stay three days longer. * *(( The true author of this article is unknown. It is here copied from the COME HOSTELING newsletter, Sept. 1980, of the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, who received it from Dick Schwanke, Senior PAC Staff Trainer, who read it in the APPALACHIAN HIKER by Ed Garvey, who got it from the Potomac Appalachian Trail Conference Bulletin, which quoted it from THE RAMBLER of the Wasatch Mountain Club of Salt Lake City, which reportedly cribbed it from the I.A.C. News of Idaho Falls, which reported it from the 1966 PEAKS & TRAILS.

If the boy is from another country, (if anyone is from another country) why would we expect him to recite a promise/make an oath concerning his loyalty to the US of A? If the PoA is appropriate to your expression of your love of the US of A, then go for it. If the PoA is seen as an unnecessary oath, or an expression bordering on idolatry (promising to be loyal to a piece of cloth?) , as some religions see it. then as a Scout, I must be respectful and understanding of that belief. And, where does it "say" that a boy of another nationality cannot join the BS of A? He is indeed fortunate to have obtained such a new, loving family. Wish more boys had such opportunities. I say give him the neckerchief and take him on the trail. In a years time, he can certainly earn First Class and proudly take it back to his home with some satisfaction and good memories and new friendships. And where is the harm in that? There is none. Only good can come of such , and after all, bridges between people are what is needed, not more walls.

Weeeelllll..... there are TWO Chinas, remember. Might be the Taiwan China, not the Mainland China. There is a member of WOSM listed in the Republic of China (Taiwan).

In my council, the camp training appears to be cumulative. One can take BALOO. If you take OWL, then you have credit for BALOO and OWL. If you take IOLS, with an extra hour or so of discussion, you have IOLS,and OWL, and BALOO credit. There is a Cub Scout program section that has to be done, but the IOLS covers a multitude of, er, sins.

The "requirement" (pg. 8 of my Eaglesons BSHandbook) to repeat the PoA is only that. Repeat it. Once, to show that he knows it. If he is a citizen of another country, he is under no obligation to repeat a promise he honestly has no need to fulfill. Likewise, there is no legal obligation for ANYONE to repeat the PoA if to do so would violate their religious beliefs (another issue, dealt with elsewhere in this forum). And, there is no requirement to be a citizen of the United States to join the Boy Scouts of America. Or to be of a certain faith or religion ( just to have one. Again, another issue, another thread). Look at the BSA Scout promise and law. They make no mention for WHICH country the boy is promising to do his duty . The Scout Law can apply to anyone of any nationality who chooses to adopt it as his ideal, and THAT is , I hope we can all agree, what we here are ultimately about. Therefore: Let the boy join in the fun of American Scouting and, if he can, take that example back to his homeland. He and the world will be a little better for it.

My good friend Ted has two kids. Daughter Katie is, I think, now 12, son Will is now about 7.. When Katie turned 6, Ted became the leader for her new Daisey Troop and he took them on hikes and stream crawls and crawfish hunts.. The female leader of the group (not Teds wife) evidently said "go for it!" much to the local councils shagrin. He had as happy a bunch of kindergartners as you've ever seen. Unfortunately,(fortunately?) Teds wife was offered a six figure job and they moved. He said that the new Brownie leader was not as open to such jaunts, but let the new troop go and now he has a bunch of outdoorsy Juniors. Last I spoke to him, he may be forming a Venture Crew. Will is a Cub now.

Oops "popular"... Here's the curriculum I pass out. There are many others on the web... Whitlin’ Chip Curriculum Suggestions for Scouts and Scouters instructing Cubs for Whitlin’ Chip. ** The watch words here are: **Ask, Require, Watch, Practice, Correct** (EDGE version: Educate, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable) ****NEVER let a Cub within your sight handle a sharp implement incorrectly or unsafely. Gently correct them and ALLOW them the pride of good tool useage.**** **Bear, Webelos Cub Scouts. (see Bear achievement #19) **Folding pocket knife use only. No ‘sheath’ knives. No axe or hatchet. No saw. But their safe use can be mentioned. As a Boy Scout, ‘Totin’ Chip’ badge will cover these other sharp implements. **Whitlin’ Chip and parent permission allows a Cub Scout to carry and use a folding pocket knife in a safe manner at Cub Scout events. If the Cub willfully fails to follow safe techniques, he may be asked to give up his Whitlin’ Chip rights, hand over his Whitlin’ Chip card and his pocket knife may be taken from him. The card and knife should be given to his parents and the situation explained. The Cub may later re-earn the Whitlin’ chip. Explain all this to the Cub. (“serious business!â€Â) 1. “Tool not a toyâ€Â. Respect the tool. Do not use it for that which it was not intended. Respect the edge. Cut wood, string, rope, paper, not metal or wire. Do not dig in the dirt. Do not cut living wood (trees, shrubs, etc.) needlessly. It’s a knife, not a screwdriver or can opener. Place knife down on safe surface, or fold up and place in pocket. Keep the knife clean, oiled, and sharp. A dull edge is more dangerous than a sharp one. 2. Parts of the Knife: Show and discuss the parts: the handle, blade, back of blade, edge, face of blade, point, case or box, hinge, spring, hanger. Talk about the different types of steel: stainless, high carbon, alloys; how some will rust easier than others, some will take and hold a sharp edge better than others, some are harder, some are softer, some more brittle. This knowledge comes with experience, the Cub needs to know safe handling and good care, not metallurgy. . 3. Handling: IT IS SHARP. IT CAN HURT YOU OR OTHERS. Demonstrate how to open and close the knife. Close with FLAT of hand, fingers away from the box opening. No ‘fists’. (“What’s wrong with this picture?â€Â) Note that some ‘clasp’ knives have a lock (‘lock back’), and show the lock catch. Close and open carefully. No one-handed leg closing! Or ‘whip’ opening. These will hurt someone. Will it be you? Passing a knife: Close it, and pass it to the other person closed. When he has hold of the knife, he will say “THANK YOUâ€Â. This is not just polite, it means he has a safe hold of the tool and will not drop it. DO NOT LET GO UNTIL YOU HEAR “Thank Youâ€Â’. Tell him “YOUâ€ÂRE WELCOMEâ€Â. This is a good rule for any passing of any implement. Steel workers use it in foundries. Mechanics use it in garages. Practice this. Why is it important the other person not drop the knife? If it is an open or straight knife (like your mom’s kitchen knife), hold it in your hand by the blade, edge away from your palm, handle toward the recipient. He grasps the handle carefully, says “thank youâ€Â, and you say “you’re welcome†and let go. Why this method? Practice this. Place the knife down on a safe surface. Surface is flat, not slippery or wet, don’t ‘stab’ the knife into something to hold it. Fold it up when not in use. 4. Sharpening: Show different stones: Dry, Oil, Show hones, ‘steel’, ceramic, etc. Demonstrate holding edge to the light to see reflection of condition. Rotate edge to see reflection of edges, etc. One or two drops of oil on the oil stone. Hold blade flat to stone, raise up about 7-8 degrees. Rub lightly in a circular motion, move blade up to do the curved area too. Do other side the same. Listen for the change in sound as the blade gets sharp, the ‘whistle’. Show honing to a razor edge on diamond hone and ‘steel’. Clean debris off blade with rag or paper towel. Feel edge carefully with thumb, sideways. 5. Using the knife: demonstrate and help the Cubs determine the “blood circle†(“safe circleâ€Â). Even at a table. Carve away from the body. Use thumb on BACK of blade to push. Use both hands. Make sure you have a safe area to carve. Hold work piece on table, NOT in lap. Beware the soft hinge that will bend if the blade gets stuck. Work carefully and slowly. Be patient. Give Cubs soap bars and let them make something. Go around. Help them. 5. When YOU are satisfied that the Cub has learned what you can teach them (ask, require, watch, practice, correct), fillout the W/C slip and hand it to the Cub. **Remind him: >>that he must arrange with his Scout Leader to demonstrate his new skill and they will sign the Whittlin’ Chip card and make the award; >>that this is a privilege he has earned, and if he is not true to this trust, the privilege can be removed; >>that it is only good for Cub Scout events and he should never take his knife to school or other places without his parents’ permission. Indeed, a knife in a student’s possession on school grounds is nowadays generally automatic grounds for suspension. Shake his hand and wish him well.

Whitlin' Chip is always opular. Talked my Troop into doing a W/C booth at the Webelos Weekend. I trained four senior Scouts, they did the booth. I think they had 60 plus Webes go thru their course. Knife safety, care and feeding of the knife (maintenance), and then everybody got to borrow a pocket knife and whittle something out of a bar of soap! I was very proud when I saw one of the Scouts realize that one of his students was actually scared to handle a sharp thing like a knife, so the Scout went out in the woods, found a suitable stick, and created a wooden "knife" for this Cub to handle until he was ready to pick up a real metal blade. I saved this "practice" blade and exhibit it to my IOLS Totin' Chip class. The Webes got a small certificate attesting that they had been thru "Troop xyz's Whitttlin Chip course, and they should demonstrate their skills to their Cub Master, who will award the Whittlin' Chip". That way, it is not the Scout awarding the badge, it is the Cub Leader.. I like the way others have said it. Supervise the Wolf, make sure they have the hand skill necessary.

Limit announcements... (our church does "silent announcements" as a printed bulletin)...Topic breakouts... Cookies... Never thought about intros, might do that... Thanks for all the input...... Any more????