SSScout

The IOLS is not just to help unexperienced old guys learn how to be a Scout. It involves cooperating with other Scouters, making new friends, learning Other Ways To Do It, correcting Wrong Ways Of Doing It, being reminded of The Scout Way To Do It, and , heck, it's another time to go camping. Why would an Eagle Scout NOT want a good excuse to go camping? Just because he's an Eagle (Mucho Congrats!) doesn't mean he Knows It All.... A good Scouter, I find is also a humble Scouter, and is always eager and open to Learn Something New and Share His/Her Knlwledge and Experience with others. If your Eagle truly does not think he belongs in the IOLS class, I will suggest that he will have a hard time every time somebody else says "you need to take this training to be this postion". Take the Training. Have fun. Show us your Scout Stuff....

Whittlin Chip is definitely a local thing . Note that there is no "requirements", as in "do this, then this and make this", one is expected to teach the safe techniques and skills like an Uncle might to his nephew. There are lots of good curriculum on line, some more "academic" some more "hands on". PM me and I can send you our W/C Curriculum. It is important that boys learn how to use tools safely, not only sharp edges. The confidence one gains in using tools to DO and MAKE spills over into other activities. If I can do THAT, then no reason I can't do THIS. Helping around the yard, helping in the kitchen (RAW ingredients), even holding and handing him the wrench while dad tightens something, all these add up over the boys lifetime. I am always amazed at the lack of dexterity today's young boys exhibit in CSDC. It's as if they never have a chance to pile blocks up and knock them down. And the parents are often so eager to NOT have their boy take ANY risk . We had a Webelos Cub at one of our Camporees (visiting Webelos) want to do the W/C, but was scared to TOUCH a knife. One of our Scouts found a knife shaped stick in the woods and worked with this Cub using this substitute until he was ready to borrow the Scouts pocket knife. Eventually carved a credible auto out of the soap bar we gave him. I kept that knife-stick and point it out when I teach IOLS to nascent SMs. What a good recruiting tool! Big brother teaches young Cub about carving! I hope you have the pleasure of watching and hearing your Scout hand his mother a knife in the kitchen and insist she say "thank you" before relinguishing his hold on it.

Welcome to the neighborhood. Try the PM function, I live just down the road in White Oak. TTurtle has the right idea. Include the parents. Give them ideas, suggested places to "go see", give each a month for which to plan , and keep at them to make it work. It is (and never should) just be you.

"Speak for thyself, Stosh Alden..." Dawnjo, pull up a virtual log, sit ye self down and welcome to the ecracker barrel.

WCS: Have you had a sitdown with these folks? Who is the CO? Is it a viable entity or is it a "Friends of" CO? What role does it play in this? What are the boys' ages? Ranks? Is this one of those "My son makes Eagle and I'm done" kind of things? If so, these folks are really not being fair to the other boys nearby who might Actually want to be a Scout but this "Troop" isn't even trying to play fair. I would say to them, "here are the requirements to have a REAL Scout Troop: 5 (or 10?) boys, 5 seperate adults in various roles, etc. etc. " and if they can fufill the charter requirements, let'em pay the dues and have fun.... Otherwise, drop the charter, urge them to re-up with another Troop and move on. If this is the worst of your problems in your DIstrict, be thankful....

If he is asked to give a "Scoutmaster's Minute", he speaks for ...one minute. When he went to Philmont, he gave the Tooth of Time a root canal..... His Eagle Project used real eagles...... He is.... the most interesting Scouter. "I do not always go camping in the rain, but when I do, I get wet." "Keep hiking, my friend."

Camp Theodore Roosevelt:: Chesapeake Bay.... 100 feet long pier, buoy waaaay out there.... row boats circling 'round.... Sea Nettles (jelly fish).... rub vaseline ALL OVER legs and chest... jump in off end of pier, swim to the buoy, swim back... rub alcohol ALL OVER sea nettle stings (vaseline didn't help that much).... don't need sharks.... No more Camp Roosevelt ( now the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant)....

Yes, the ACLU has defended many religious tolerance cases. And the one Jblake notes has nothing to do with religion, as far as I can see. And our athiest friends often do not get the understanding they deserve. And the so-called Christian right often does not allow for other types of faith. We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world. We do have the means to discuss (not just cuss) and, depending on what Holy Script you follow (and often what PART of that script), the basis for finding out where we agree and where we part company. And for that, I give thanks.

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""? As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf . In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

I realize this thread is not about "backpack" cooking, but the idea of sedan chair carriable chuck/cook boxes and drive up and drop trailer camping always brings to mind my favorite article, which I give out at IOLS training, to wit, I present "Courageous Cookery" : *(( The true author of this article is unknown. It is here copied from the COME HOSTELING newsletter, Sept. 1980, of the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, who received it from Dick Schwanke, Senior PAC Staff Trainer, who read it in the APPALACHIAN HIKER by Ed Garvey, who got it from the Potomac Appalachian Trail Conference Bulletin, which quoted it from THE RAMBLER of the Wasatch Mountain Club of Salt Lake City, which reportedly cribbed it from the I.A.C. News of Idaho Falls, which reported it from the 1966 PEAKS & TRAILS. I offer it here for your enjoyment and inspiration. Note that some of the ingredients are a bit dated. Adjust as necessary. Enjoy!)) "Courageous Cookery" by John Echo* Once the convert backpacker or cycle camper has accepted the subtle gustatory nuances associated with sustained operations beyond the chrome, he should try the advantages of ultra fringe living so that he will realize what he is paying for his nested pots and pretty pans carried so diligently and brought home so dirty after every "wilderness experience". The following system works. It is dependable and functional. It works on the big rock. It even works when the weather has gone to hell, you are wet and cold and the wind is blowing down the back of your hairy neck. It is not for the timid. It consists of a stove, a six inch sauce pan, a plastic cup and a soup spoon. If you insist on a metal cup, you must never fail to mutter "I'm having fun, I'm having fun", every time you spill the soup on your sleeping bag. Breakfast: Instant wheat cereal-- sugar and powdered milk added-- ready two minutes after water boils. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water, boil, and add powdered eggs and ham. You'll never taste the cereal anyway. In three minutes, eat eggs. Do not wash pot. Add water or snow and boil for tea. Do not wash pot. Most of the residue eggs will come off in the tea water. Make it strong and add sugar. Tastes like tea. Do not wash pot. With reasonable technique, it should be clean. Pack pot in rucksack and enjoy last cup of tea while others are dirtying entire series of nested cookware. Lunch: Boil pot of tea. Have snack of rye bread, cheese and dried beef Continue journey in 10 minutes if necessary. Dinner: Boil pot of water, add Wylers dried vegetable soup and beef bar. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and potatoes from dry potatoe powder. Add gravy mix to taste. Eat potatoes from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and boil for tea. Fortuitous fish or meat can be cooked easily. You do not need oil or fat. Put half inch of water in pot. Add cleaned and salted fish. Do not let water boil away. Eat from pot when done. Process can be done rapidly. Fish can even be browned somewhat by a masterful hand. Do not change menu. Variation only recedes from the optimum. Beginners may be allowed to wash pot once a day for three consecutive days only. It is obvious that burning or sticking food destroys the beauty of the technique. If you insist on carrying a heavier pack, make up the weight you save with extra food. Stay three days longer.

""Only 1 sash can be worn"" Officially true, but one could pick a sash du jour to wear as one wanted, and display the other hanging in the home picture window...

Multiple sashes....

Yes, the Summit is reclaimed strip mine land. I doubt if any tree there is more than 25 years old. Gullies are now "lakes", trails are sculpted, camp sites are leveled and sloped fpr drainage.

CoH last night. Moose Patrol is in charge of the ceremony. MP PL is a Scout of 3 years membership. He assigns 4 boys to the colorguard and I hear him help them thru the routine. They wait with the flags outside the door for the word to begin. All have Scout shirt and Troop necker, look correctly "patched". One has "official" Scout pants, one dark green Scout pant clones, one long dark blue jeans, One is a new Scout ( new to the Troop) in stripped shorts and shirt hanging out. I lean in to him and say, quietly, "Nice shorts. Tuck in your shirt!". He JUMPS! and tucks it in. Turns out he was the CG captain, to say the commands. All goes well, otherwise.

Are they Venture Scouts? Family members? Is it happening on Assateague Island? Just so they are properly uniformed (there are BSA swim suits...) and appropriately clothed for the occasion.....

Congrats to you both. Like the man said, it is up to you and your family to decide how and what your ceremony consists of. Proud mom and dad might want to write to the Governors Mansion and White House and County Councilman's office and ask for their "Eagle Congrats" letters. Look real sharp , framed on the wall or at the ceremony. Ceremony: Many moon ago, mine was a simple CoH (three Eagles at same time) with the Troop and families in attendance. Finger food after in the church social hall. Scoutson had to be convinced that the family deserved and HE deserved some recognition. Special Troop CoH, many past Scout folks that had known him came. Family friend catered a BBQ for all afterward, we had BBQ frozen for months afterward (Scoutson's work lunches that summer!).. Do some google time, find Eagle Charges and scripts. Ask folks from your past (teachers, uncles, aunts, friends ) to attend and maybe embarrass you with remembrances. It will all be worth it, trust me. Make it as fancy or simple but elegant as you wish. The most memorable one I ever attended was for two brothers. They had a camp out in the back woods on their grandparents farm. Troop had camped there before, and there were lots of good memories there. Folks had to hike in with chairs and tables and such about 500 yards, set up, the nascent Eagles did the cooking, burgers and hot dogs and salads and such. After the official stuff, the candles were put out, the campfire burned late into the night and morning. Many memories were remembered and remade. Good luck to you and your buds. Oh, and do what you can to help your Troop rebuild. Show the kids in the neighborhood the fun and challenge of Scouting.

Waaaay back when, the fashion was a pack board that one lashed whatever to. My original Troop went to Philmont with war surplus M4 plywood packboards. I couldnt afford the trip, maybe that was a good thing, but I took the example seriously and got dad to take me to Sunny's Surplus and I still have that M4 pack board and Yucca pack I bolted to it. Saw no reason to merely lash it on. Very adaptable, but overly heavy before equipping. Good for a lugh from today's Scouts when I show it off. Then came Mr. Kelty's aluminum pack frame and pin on pack bag. Much lighter and very adaptable. Internal frames and built in stuff sacks for the poly sleep bag. Scoutson has tried both innies and outies, and says he likes the innies, IF they have lots of lash on rings for extraneous stuff. Always pack food seperate, in a bag that can be immediately hoisted aloft at camp. Seperate cover for pack (packs are usually NOT waterproof)..Use lots of plastic bags to pack and organize . Take extra plastic bags (bread bags are good) Ziplocks are best). Seperate rain coat . Dress in layers. Wool jacket, gortex clone stuff jacket over the wool jacket. Broad brim hat, with chin strap.

There is no REAL reason why the Pack cannot decide their own uniform details. The Cub Scout standard used to be ONE yellow necker , ONE blue hat, and ONE blue shirt thruout the Cub's career in CScouting. The different neckers, and hats and such was enacted for identification and $$$. It need not be the only way. I like the checkered necker story, that's real Scouting. I have a collection of neckers from when I was a Scout, also wogggles and hats, given as rewards/souvenirs from camps and courses. Patches are getting boring.

P38.. You Can use the Lid from The Can for a Spoon..Can't Open a Can with a Spoon as Easily Y'all forgot the guru's advice? "When you get to the fork in the road, take it" = Yogi Berra.... I always have a fork with me, In the pocket. Elicits conversation. And smiles.

Here we go again.... Why take WB? 1) Because I want to 2) Because my unit says they would like me to/ need me to 3) Because it's required for the Jamboree..whatever. 4) Because someone else will pay for it and it's a neat mini vaction away from home... Okay. So for whatever reason, you re going to WB. How to pay for it? Can't be free,:: the pychology of training ALWAYS includes the BUY IN. If you have no investment (time, mioney, emotion) it will mean the less to you. The money part can be fulfilled in many ways. ** Pay for it yourself. 'Nuf said. ** By your involvement and DEMONSTRATED dedication to Scouting, perhaps the Unit can help (do they offer? Do you ask?). ** Some companies recognize WB as a worthy management training. Ask your HR folks about company help. ** Some Unions see WB as a worthy community service, in encouraging Scout Leaders. Mine was paid by my union. They only required that I not get "fired" from my job for a year! ** I have heard of churches helping financially (see above about "companies"), seeing WB as a worthy social endeavor , Scouting being what it is. It ultimately is kinda like the song about "Sharon"..... you got to pay with your heart, ultimately, to make the WB course worth while. And, as has been said in other threads, it is dependant on the training staff. Some WB's seem to be better than others. The beads all look alike to me. ..

Picky eaters of the world, unite! If the kid/Cub/Scout has his blood sugar level elevated by "snacks" at the time when he should have had a real meal (dinner) of some sort, how is his growing body going to get used to the idea of "eat" play/work rest eat play/work rest.? If it is always eat play eat play eat play, the body gets accustomed to never having to utilize stored reserves, always using "instant" supplies. Where is the nutrition? "eat your vegetables", in essence, the body doesn't WANT the veggies, it feels sated already. This leads, I believe, to poor nutrition and poor stamina.. Even a PB&J on the way to the event is better than a Lil Debbie . Granted, in this age of two income households and no one there to have dinner ready when the wage earner(s) come in the door,, but those wage earners need to realize the example they are setting for Johnny Cub. I think the idea of a potluck or even a (cheaply) catered meal for the Scout families is a good one, if the organizers can make it work equitably among everyone involved.. A 7:30pm Pack meeeting should allow for a smallish, informal family meal before the meeting, if the families are willing to make the effort , my sympathies to Base for his seemingly poorly received act of charity turned into advantage taking episode. If you have a regularly occurring event (Pack meeting) and there are some folks that need the help, perhaps arrangements can ber made with the local Safeway for a discounted roast chicken dinner combo, f'rinstance. When I coached my daughters soccer team, it was arranged that the snacks were good ones (usually cheese crackers, or PBJ crackers), the drinks were ONLY water. And because, I think , we were well nurished, (other teams had sugary cookies) , that was part of the reason we did so well thru three seasons.

What was that saying, "you can lead a horse to water...?" . Like I said, this is what they wrote, some are enthused, some not so. I met one man who was from New Jersey (the course was in Virginia), who seemed to do WB as a hobby. He told me this was his tenth (!) WB course he had attended. He just liked camping and the commeraderie, I guess. I asked him, did he do more "tickets", too? He said no, after his first course, the WB served to help restoke his "Scouting fires" (his words). It can be fun, it can be instructional, it can "certify" you know certain stuff, it's like any other instructional course. It can be *yawn" I've been here before, or "wow, that is so neat". or " tell me more" or " hey, that is a good example, never thought of that" or " I paid $xxx for THIS????" .... many different possibilities. It depends...... Yeah, everyone has their own take on the course, and everyone has the luck of the draw (not every course staff is a good/bad/so-so as mine/yours/that one), and everyone comes with their own preconcieved notions (or lack of) and past experiences to compare with and draw from. . At least we asked their opinion before they scattered.

Christineka: Thank you for taking on this truly awe inspiring role as WDL. You will be nothing but gratified in the end. By strict BSA standards, if you as the WDL haven't passed on the boy's pins/requirements etc., then he hasn't "earned" them. Perhaps the CM needs to be gently reminded of this. If the CM took the CLTraining, then this would have been mentioned! If you have gone over the book, then you have read the part that details WHO is responsible for the advancement checks. Especially if you are a new WDL, I would do the fact sheet thing, and refer to the "official" readings. If you have a schedule in mind (ages, topics for meetings, monthly advancement/pin goals, etc.) a good idea is to include that. Remind ALL the Webs about this requirement that the WDL is the person to OK the rank requirements, don't single out anyone, but make sure the Scout in question understands the importance of it. He will make the mom understand. You might still have to gently remind CMMom that . They may need to fufill some work at home, but you, the WDL, needs to be the one who finally reviews it to be correct . .I agree with Huey about the "rude awakening" when the boy becomes a BScout. This may be a EagleMom, if you know what I mean.

Truly a highly underratted Scout job. The Cubs get a "big brother", the DenChief gets a chance to show his Scout Skills and be an important part of the Cub Scout Den. If the BScout does his job well, he will have a bunch of "little brothers" all looking up to him. If he hasn't had a chance previously, he learns how to help , how to take charge, how to teach, how to share his experience with younger kids. It is a chance for the Cubs to see what they may attain to. The Den Leader who has a good Den Chief is truly blessed. The DL needs to make sure the DC knows what is expected of him. It would not hurt for the DL to take the DC training on line at MyScouting and encourage the Boy Scout DC to take it too. If there is a "in person" DC training in your Council, help your DC to attend. The DL also needs to keep in touch with both the Pack's Cubmaster and the BScout''s Scoutmaster about the DC's progress and ability. It is a "POR", but hey, the need for that for advancement is secondary to the Scout's experience. Overcome the BScout's misperception that it's just "babysitting " some little brats, and everybody will benefit. Thank you for seeking to use this job effectively. Good Scouting to you!

Pack18alex: Thank you for your explanation and personal observations. May I quote them when I do my " Scout's Own" orientation at IOLS? Yes, I do a little disabusing of the Christian BSA belief. PM me and I can email my curricullum to you. I did a "regular" Woodbadge weekend, and two of my Patrol were LDS (didn't know that at first). Along with several other LDSers in the Troop, they went off on Sunday morning and met for their worship in a seperate corner of the camp. Our LDS brothers did not "pack up" on saturday evening, as has been mentioned above. . I noticed this and asked them about it. My Owl brother told me they had asked for and received a "special" permission from their Bishop, who was evidently their worship leader that sunday morning, at camp. We did not have , to my knowledge, any jewish Scouters in my WB Troop, that session, but had two Muslims (they arrived Saturday) and I made a good friendship with them, they have asked me to come and assist (bugle!) at a couple of their special occassions. Hey, Moderators.... Let's switch this thread to the "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum.... Oh, wait...