SSScout

I know we are seeing only one side of this. I hope that National OA and National BSA will interview all parties and sort this out. Very often, BSA REacts , rather than acting. A Scout is Trustworthy. Chai: Do a search for ~~jpstodwftexas name and see the beginnings of this.

CP, SP, and Qwazse have the right idea. Communication. I would add, plan a fun meeting for the next time, say a hike/picnic/nature center visit (earn a pin?) and find out who's still in the game.... and get a chance to talk to the boys and parents and find out what's up.

Nutcase911: You will not regret any of your time with your boy(s). Repeat the Cub Scout Mantra: Kismif,,, Kismif.... Keep it simple, make it fun... Take those Tigers (and their partners!) places!

His knowledge and skill earn him a Merit Badge. It is sewn on the sash. If he earns a "set" of MBs (camping, cooking, hiking.... dog care, bird study, reptile study, mammal study), he gets a "stripe" or "cord" to wear summars on the uni. Nice. Make him an Instructor, put him to work in a PoR. Eagles can wear Palms , reflecting their MBs over the usual 21 required.....

Seen/heard at a recent summer camp.... You need three or four Scouts to do the recitation....and an appropriate "Scouter" to honor... He named his daughters “Powell “ and “Badenâ€Â…. When he went to Philmont, he gave the Tooth of Time a root canal…. His Scout Law has 14 points…. He is… The Most Interesting Scouter….. “I do not always go camping, but when I do, I go to ((insert camp name here))“. “Stay Scouty, my friendâ€Â. He has a whole Totin, not merely a Chip. His “Good†Turn is really “Betterâ€Â, and usually “Bestâ€Â. Do not ask about his … “Bug Juiceâ€Â. There are never any flies on his table. You will never know if he “Left No Traceâ€Â. The Big Dipper points to Him. His “Bear Bag†really holds one. He went to “WOOD Badgeâ€Â, not “WON’T Badgeâ€Â. He hiked the whole of the AT, because he had a cancelation in his schedule. When he pitches his tent, it is a “no hitter†. Someone once asked him what that “Square Knot†on his uniform was, and he told them. He has never said, â€Âfollow me boysâ€Â, but they do, anyway. He is…… The Most Interesting Scouter. “I do not always go camping, but when I do, I go to ((insert camp name here))â€Â. “Stay Scouty, my friendâ€Â.

If the Scout has earned a particular Merit Badge, and it seems appropriate, make him an "Instructor" (there's a patch for that) and assist the MBCounselor. Pioneering comes to mind.... Another added bit of "bling" may or may not be an enticement to learn a skill, but being an "Instructor" has a certain panache of it's own.

I like the idea in theory, but the caveats mentioned above should be watched: pal loyalty, age difference, the pins they want to work on and the ones they need to earn for their time in Cubs... The Web2s will want pins to complete their AoL that the Web1s don't need, might mean some diplomacy and scheduling creativity. And don't forget that the BSA terminology is still "Den", not "Patrol". If you had a bunch of Web2s , and only one or two Web1s, would you want to mix'em up like that? Ummmm, why not? I guess if our GGparents could operate in a one room school, multiple grades, we can operate a multiple Web Den!

Back from grass cutting... Stosh: You are obviously a Scouter's Scouter and I would not hesitate to recommend a Scout to your Troop. I'd like to answer some of your comments but the "quote" function seems not to work as it use to. Refer to #39 above. Even with boy led Troops, you will still have Scouts , nascent PLers, come and ask "Can I really do that?" of the SM. It will happen. I have seen it happen. Then the SM or ASM will have to say "yes, you can" and send the Scout back to his PL or SPL or where ever. No harm, it is not "adult led" to encourage a Scout to make his own decision. As to the example where I told about the early rising Scout, I realize my duty/danger , call it what you may, vis a vis YP, and I thank you for the reminder. This was in daylight, out in the open, other folks were up and about. He asked a question, I answered it and elicited some better understanding which both I and the SM were later gratified to see turn into more responsible Patrol activity. They saw how to and decided to cook earlier, wash dishes earlier, without any adult TELLING them to. You implied that I should have just shooed the Scout back to his area. Would that have really helped? The SM should insist that the Troop run according to his ideal. How is that intruding on "boy led" if that is his ideal? We teach by instruction and example and encouragement. "Here's how to do it". (watch me do it this way) "Yes , you can do that". We lose the boy led ideal when the adults start saying "here, let me do that" instead of remembering that we should not do what a boy can do. Now, if the SM and his ASMs ideal is doing a Webelos 3 Troop, and others recognize this, yeah, there will be friction.

I like all the advice so far given. Being visible and known. Does your CO have a sign out front saying "Home of Cub Pack , Scout Troop,"? I would be "Trustworthy,, courteous,, and kind..." Do not stoop to their level. Make sure the invitations to your activities still go out to your local Cub Packs. Only one in town, really? Again, play nice! . If the invitations are "forgotten", make sure to politely remind folks about them. The DE will have a list of the Webelos leaders (assuming the Packs are playing by the rules), you can contact them directly, along with the other Pack leaders. Do you have a Commissioner ? Perhaps he could make presentations and reminders to the Pack at B&G dinners, or PWDerby... I will assume the schools (elementary and middle?) are neighborhood schools? Approach the principal and /or the Counseling office about posters, flyers, backpack notices. Each school district has its own rules about when/how/disclaimers, etc. Keep on doing what you do best.... Let the Scouts be Scouts. And let the helicopters fly elsewhere...

Stosh: I think we are on the same page here, but maybe different paragraphs. I am assuming we have a Troop trying to move INTO the Boy Led model. For that to happen, yeah, the boys need to be assured that "yes, you can do that" and not necessarily wait for the SM or ASMs to tell them what and when. And, the boys need to know what to pass on in the way of skills and know-how, hence the teaching of the Guides/Instructor/PLs so they can teach the next group. Knife and axe skill and safety is taught and exampled. You need an experienced person to start the tradition. And , yes, the SM needs to "insist" some. Insist the PL lead, not wait for something to happen. Insist that the SPL take charge of the PLC. Insist that his coffee be black, or whatever. When he sees something about to happen badly ("hey, watch this!!") , insist that folks step back and play the "what if" game. The SM can and should insist that the other adults get trained and then step back to watch ... or demonstrate a skill, if asked... or lead the bird ID hike.... I was on the Scout Skills weekend of the home troop, and happened to be the first one up. I started the Adult stove and set a pot of water on to boil. When the first Scout got up and wandered over, he asked "what's that for?', indicating the pot of now boiling water. I said, "what could you use boiling water for?" I eventually elicited a list of uses: Hot chocolate, oatmeal, wash dishes, hard boiled eggs, wash hands.... he wandered back to the Scout side of camp (30 so yards away!) and woke up his buddies. I later overheard a conversation about planning ahead to have the dish wash water on to boil before the meal was even cooking. Was I leading or somehow letting the Scouts make their own decision/mistakes?

Once upon a time I was a dispatcher for the Transit System. I was responsible for closing up the garage after all the busses came home at night. If all went well, I locked the doors and went home at about 1:15am. One friday night , about 11pm, I answered the phone and the conversation went something like this: "Good evening, this is Busses Are Us, how can I help you?" "Can you tell me about the Subway system?" "Perhaps. What is your question?" "Well, my son is attending a special class downtown tomorrow ((*tomorrow would be Saturday*)), and I'd like to know how to get to the XYZ University at Muddy Bottom Station". "Are you going with him?". "No, he'll be going by himself". " (??) Ahh, how old is he?" " He's 15." "And he is attending a class at a university?" "Yes...." " Shouldn't I be speaking with him, then?" There was a noticeable silence on the other end. The male voice said "Wait a minute...." A younger voice came on: "Hello?" "Are you the student going down to XYZ University tomorrow?" " Yes..." " Do you know where you're going? Ever been down there before?" " Oh sure, I went down there before to sign up for the class!" " And do you need to hear the directions on how to use the Subway to Muddy Bottom Station?" "Nah, I'm Okay. " and here he recited how he would board the subway, buy his farecard, and transfer at Midtown Station to the line to Muddy Bottom. "That sounds about right. Is that your dad I was speaking with? Do you think he knows that you know? Could you maybe let him know that I know that you know that he should know you know how to get there? " "Uh?" I spoke to the adult voice again, and assured him I thought the young man knew how to get there. I suggested he review it with him, but let the boy do the reviewing. He thanked me and we said goodnight.

The SM names some Instructor/Guides. He might actually have some idea who is good at what skill. SM and ASMs teach the I/Gs some skills (Totin Chip, knots, etc. ) . These I/Gs teach the younger Scouts the skills. Use the EDGE method, if you wish. This is where the adults model behavior...... The SM INSISTS on this. He then instructs the Patrols to elect their PLs. He then convenes the PLCouncil, where he trains the PLs in PLeading. See www.scouting.org/Training/Youth Or, send them off to the Council's NYLTS. Give each of them a copy of the PLHandbook. INSIST they do PLeader things! When they come up and say "you mean I can DO that?" the SM says yes... Choose a SPL and a ASPL or two. SM might appoint the first time out, and after a year or so, the Troop or PLC elects them. The adults drive the cars, catch the kids that fall down, but they do not prevent them from falling down! Howzzat?

"..... and when they got home, there was a HOOK stuck in the car door handle!!!!!!!!"

C'mon gang, you're running out of nits to pick. Parents can "observe", any time... This is about an Adult Patrol, playing Scout, being in comparison/competition with the Boys. This is not about escorting Scouts to summer camp (requirements are still there: YP, Two Deep, etc.), or staying over at camp when they are not "vetted" (what exactly is that? I wanted a Mustang, anyway....). "Old Goat Patrol", Rocking Chair Patrol, 273 meter camping.... let's get on with encouraging the "Patrol Method".

Wood Badge and IOLS are set up and run LIKE A TROOP WITH PATROLS, but they are NOT a Troop for adults...... , and I think this is where the OP's friend got confused, it is not how the adults should operate, but how they should encourage the boys to operate. Yes, "Old Goat patrol" is an un-official thing. ASMs, Patrol Dads, SMs, CCs etc. are all ex-officio members, but to try and compete as an actual Patrol, no, not good. Watch from a distance. Teach your expertise to the SPL, Instructors, PLs, then step back and let them teach and example themselves for the younger boys. I have a wonderful photo of Scoutson, filing an axe, while another Scout watches and points at the activity.

2CD: You had a problem , alright. Maybe the CCh should delegate alittle? My home Troop has a dedicated (as in this is her whole job for the Troop) membership person. She keeps up with registration, training, stuff like that. Not the Advancement Chair. Our CCh is very capable, and keeps in touch with everyone, but HIS specialty is organizing summer camp. When Recharter comes around, half the work is already done. Ms MP cranks up the rechart website, types in the new access code and away she goes. They were still late with the finalities, but that was admitted to be the Council's problem, lost paperwork, new hires, bad arithmetic, etc.

"Leave no trace, just leave your money". Yes , in this day and age, it is not unreasonable. It will help in the preservation of this natural wonder. Many moon ago, our family visited the GC, and were suitably impressed. Did the short mule ride.

Sprout18: Greetings from the Old Line State and welcome to the Wonderful World of Wondering if I'm doing it right. And to the Scouter Forums. Never anything wrong with getting some more training. The worst it can do is make you think. And give you another excuse to go camping.... In our home district (sounds like yours) folks that attend IOLS can stay another two hours and get the philosophy/safety part of OWLS and leave the site with IOLS and OWLS certs. Yes, it is another step up from BALOO. As has been said, BSA is concerned with safety and accountability. So Cubs camp in a Pack with mom and/or pop. Webs camp as a Den with the WDL and his/her colleague AND pop/mom, as possible, drive the car up to the campsite, YP rulings apply. If you are going up to Cunningham Falls, be aware they close early in the fall! Camp Bennett may be open for group camping.... Back yards of grampa's farm is always available. Thanks for all you do! YiS

And.... DCh can be a long dedication. I agree with KDD, why not ask to be the Tiger Den Chief? He can "grow up" with them, and, if he's good at it and enjoys it, he can be a "big bro" for these Cubs right on up thru to crossover. AND... he will be the de-facto DCh for his real lil' bro anyway, count on it! There is no requirement that his PoR change every year, he could be a DCh for as long as he is welcome! I helped in the Eagle investiture of a young man who had served as a DCh for a least three of his Scouting years. And yes, check with his SPL. He will need the approval of the DL, the CM, and the SM. And welcome to the forums!

As in many things, "it depends". Commissioners come in all types. Mostly, around here, they tend to be older, Scout experienced folks. Our area is no where near the one Commisher-to-three units ratio National recommends. Most of the Commishers I know are multi talented: they Commission, do OA stuff, are ASMs, teach U of S courses, do CSDC, lead Roundtable, teach IOLS, coach new units (used to be a Deputy Commissioner patch for that), recruit MBCounselors, AND make sure the units get rechartered. I do 4 units, all at the same CO, and am consulted at times and get invited to the B&G banquets, and spaghetti dinner fundraisers. I became a Commisher because of my Woodbadge tickets. Mostly, they had to do with Cub Scouts, but I was registered as a Boy Scout ASM, so my TGuide suggested I become a Commissioner, because as a Boy Scouter, I would not be allowed to do Cub Scout Tickets, and a Commissioner can do pretty much anything Scouty, so he said. So I said what's a Commissioner, and the rest, as they say is history. That said, the question is what's a Commisher supposed to do, and what should a Scout unit expect one to do? Other than help shepherd the recharter process, a good Commisher can offer ideas and advice but should mostly step back and watch the fun. I have always been welcome at any of my units meetings, and if I make a comment or pass on info (what? Scout accounts are bad?) I am at least listened to. I am often reminded of the joke where the coat and tie man comes up to the flood evacuees and says, "hello, I am from the Federal government and I'm here to help". Then he has to prove it.

CSDC.... We had our share of picky eaters. On the first monday, we met one boy who REFUSED to drink, anything. Not plain water, not sweet stuff, nothing... At lunchtime, the Denwalker finally brought him up to Admin and told his story. His folks were called and he went home early. Came back on Wednesday, and all was well, he drank when reminded, and had fun thru out the camp. Why the difference? I never heard.

Wow. Very neat trip. A traveling summer camp. How was this organized? Who did the bulk of the itinerary and schedule? And I notice (BSA take note) the uniform of the day seems to be a tshirt and a necker! And we can't get Scouts to wear the necker and make slides/woggles.

Scoutnut has the idea, in fact LOTS of ideas! All good! KisMif! And please take'm out places, at least once a month, GO someplace! A museum, the zoo, a hike around the lake, a dad's work place (how fun is that for the Tiger, to show off where dad (or mom! Ooops, sorry!) work. Mention "Scouts" and watch doors open! Yes, not everyone will be able to go on every "Go See It", but make the plans.....even the most boring (to an adult ) office can be an adventure for a 6 year old. Make the Cubs the "gang" for them to want to hang out with. Cub Promise, Law of the Pack, etc. : Write each word on a 3x5 card, throw them in a bag. When you are about to ask Johnny Cub to lead the (?) , hesitate, and say "ummm, I wonder if the adults have been paying attention? Here, (offer the bag to the adults) , take out a word, and let's see if they can line up in the right order to make the Cub Promise, ...." The Cubs will love it, Keep order, let the adults do the work, let them re-arrange themselves until they have it right.

Why not just give the 2.9mil directly to the school district? Why make the BSA Foundation the donor? Anonymous is anonymous and strings are conditions.... I do not understand the need to donate THRU another foundation/organization. Did the BSA Foundation gain some bucks too? Or were they only the pass thru? Are there tax benefits this way and not the other? It sounds strange. And as to the " ... when the facility is not being used by the district during non-school hours, the Boy Scouts of America Capital Area Council would have priority access to the building..." I would presume that the BSACAC would pay the same fee as the Karate Club or the Junior Republicans...

There is NEVER any reason to humiliate, or purposely physically harm anyone in Scouting. Any organization that dictates such activity as a requirement for membership, or allows such to happen or otherwise encourages it does not equate to the Scouting ideals with which I am familiar. When my son became a Cub Scout, I noted the "tradition" of holding a Cub up-side-down to receive his Bobcat pin. I immediately protested this and , much to some adults chagrin, it stopped. "But all the Cubs before did it." No, not all of them did. Someone, somewhen, DECIDED that it needed to be done. Why? To prove what? The Cub is rightfully proud to receive his pin, he earned it, yes? Why make him a source of embarrassed entertainment? "Boys will be boys", indeed, but my boy will not be THAT kind of boy. He has been on the receiving end of similar behavior (not the "sacking") and by our discussion, sees the "other" in himself. This is what is lacking in all fraternity hazing, bullying and such. The actor never sees himself in the "other", only someone who must be "educated" or "made to be worthy" or "made to be subservient" to their "betters" or "seniors". Look up "cognitive dissonance". When I was asked to join the High School service club, I felt honored, right up to when I was interviewed by the Club BoD. The teacher advisor was present. The most of them, all of whom I knew, asked some really good questions about why, and what and how. Then one of them asked if I sh*t in lumps? I responded how was that germane to this club? Perhaps this was not the club I should join. The advisor was obviously non-plussed and that was the end of my interview. I joined and the asker was not as happy the next time I saw him. It is sufficient that I know the Scout has promised to abide by the Scout Promise and Scout Law. If he doesn't, then that is the reason for the next discussion with him AND if necessary, his parents.