SSScout

Have to agree with AZMike. About Le V and comparing the historical Jesus with Buddhism. Even Jesus taught in the Temple, and I seem to remember him quoted as saying he was here more to correct Judaism than to replace it. Do we need the biblical references? After all, Jesus was not a Christian! That term came waaaay later.

Le V: Now THERE is a statement of faith: :" Ya put yer WHOLE self in....."That's what it's all about".

Time to play a little catch up. Not Quackers..... Quakers, as in "quaking before the word of the Lord." (yes there is a story behind that). Aside: The Quaker Oats company was started by Friends (our official name, as in" Religious society of...." see John 15:14-15 ) but the company passed out of Quaker ken long ago. They wouldn't even help our Jamboree Display. Yes, a traditional Friends Meeting is without professional clergy. We meet together, in silence, waiting on the Spirit to inspire a message. If someone is moved to speak, they stand and give that message. We might sit in silence for an hour, we might have a dozen messages. There was a theological split back in the 1820s, and you will see "Friends Church" along the road, they have a paid pastor. Weall share the same history and founder (George Fox), but a "Friends Meeting" usually has no pastor, but there are exceptions. Have I confusticated things sufficiently for you? Like every "recognized" faith in the BSA, we have a Committee that is the liaison of our faith with the various Scouting organizations (GSUSA,BSA, Scouts Canada, Campfire, etc. ) You may visit us at http://quakerscouting.org/fcs-wp/ . And, there is the Friends World Committee for Consultation www.fwccamericas.org which tries to tie together the various permutations of Friends around the world . As in many things theological, it is best to find a local Meeting/Church and , as Paul said, "come and see". PM me and I will do my best to explain .

I'm gonna put a piece of tape over the upper left corner of my screen and write "Religion and Ethics Thread" on it. Thank you JBlake/stosh, thee speaks my mind. When I am asked to say a grace, or open a meeting with a prayer, I recognize the difficulty of being "inclusive". As a Quaker, it is easy for me to be spiritual without being too Christian (!), but I also find that when someone else offers a prayer for our group, I have come to accept that , hey, if someone asks their g(G)od to bless me, in whatever form that blessing may take or become, who am I to deny it? Woodbadge teaches that "all feedback is a gift". I think all blessings are a gift , too, be it asked of God, or Allah, or Buddha or Manatou. . I could see a non-believer asking that we all accept the gift of life, be it accident, coincidence or intended. Some could accept it easier than others. Some will always resent the gift, being (they think) unearned or not created by themselves.

This avatar is both good and not so. I bemoan the loss of the Junglebook reference. Kids even today need the literary reference, the ability to make the comparison, Wolf Leader= Cub Leader. Even my wife liked being referred to as Bagherra, if I was Akela. No more BALOO, no Shere Khan (for tigers?) . Can we still refer to Kipling's "If" ( not considering Kipling's politics or chauvinism)? The loss of a "good" fantasy life (growing up in the Jungle with wolves for parents? How cool is that?) vs all the dreck offered our kids today. I see Ethan as BSA trying to give Cubs (if they read?) a "friend" rather than a "role model" adult. Would a Cub prefer a comic book character to a adult showing how to tie a knot or pointing to a raccoon track? What is BSA really doing here? Better yet, what is the result desired? I see the old Cub books etc. as a means for parents/uncles/aunts to connect with the Cub . What is Ethan's purpose, really? Rather than Ethan showing the Cub "The Scouting Trail" ( I think that is the idea), isn't it better if the mom or dad sits down with the Cub and shares the Trail ..... Ultimately, it's still up to the local folks to make Cub Scouting a worthy alternative to the "rest of the world". The Cub's Den should still be ideally his "gang".

"""Patches? We ain't got no patches! We don't need no patches ! I don't have to show you any steenkin 'patches!"" Apologies to John Huston.... I like the idea of organizing a District or Council wide event. Make the effort and find the venue to let lots of Cubs and BoyScouts get the patch fever. Sell the multiples, trade the extras, get the ones you missed.

Yep. No middle name. Now, what is the middle name of the President in 1948?

Oh well, I guess I am saying a different promise..... I hope we can all agree that YOUR duty to God may not be the same as MINE. If we have multiple faiths, and multiple interpretations of those faiths, "duty to God" has to be NOT a single, definitive thing. I would never expect my Muslim Scout to do the same thing the LDS Scout does, either in ritual or moral expectation. Wear a hat? Bend a knee? Eat a BLT? Share a beer? Drink coffee? Have my group worship on the sixth day of the week? The seventh? The first? Say, where do we start counting weekdays, anyway? I have a calendar from Spain, and both Saturday and Sunday are on the RIGHT end of the page. What's to prevent our athiest/agnostic Scout from promising to do HIS duty to God and determine that duty is to do NOTHING? What's to prevent us from accepting that? If he is otherwise demonstrably following the Scout Law and Promise, where is the problem? Take that paragraph off the back of the Adult Volunteer Application and we're in business.

Epaulette loops make good necker woggles. Roll'em back on themselves, a little glue to hold'em. Put lots of pins (BALOO , PWD, BSAthanks, whathave you) on'em and they stick on the necker quite well. Some Councils/Districts award loops for events. Here in Murlin, I have seen many loops with crabs, stars, fireworks (1812!) and they are eye catching. Worn along with the usual red/green/reallygreen/silver/gold loops.

I have some things to offer if I can get my dropbox account to work. In the mean time, I vibrate/agree with much that has been said. The idea that "my religion is better than your religion" has been the basis of many a war. ""The biggest problem I have is religious bigotry with the middle school age boys--they seem to see things so black and white. The muslim and hindu boys get called 'terrorist' -- that sort of thing. The elementary age newbies are pretty nice and the high schoolers are starting to get more tolerant again"" is true to my observation. Fifty years ago (!), I remember an Jr. High English class that devolved into a discussion of the causes of war, specifically WW2. One of my classmates expressed a disbelief that the Holocaust ever happened. The story was a made up piece of propaganda from Zionists (this from a 13 year old ?). Well, I had never seen Mr. Emler get so red in the face or act so obviously self controlled. He carefully and slowly explained he had been in the Third Army that had liberated Buchenwald.. In carefully crafted sentences he described , in no small amount of detail, what he had seen and done. The "disbeliever" had no answer to this. No one asked him where he got his story, but it was implied from his family. Such personal, eye witness testimony has a never forgotten effect. No one there was going to accuse Mr. Emler of being a liar. So it is with religion. We get it first from our folks, to be accepted whole or rejected, and add to (or subtract from) it with our own experience and research. If we can gain the courage to do the research. But it is the personal testimony that ultimately counts. What have you experienced? What have you personally seen and can testify to? Can you believe the witness of people long dead and gone? Do you require your own "miracles" to prove your faith or are the stories and events recorded by others sufficient? In a Christian sense, we don't have big miracles any more. One has to look for small ones. What some might say is a "coincidence", another might see as a SMALL miracle, some proof of the spiritual. Help given when needed that has no real physical explanation, but it was there, none the less. I hear the same ideas when I speak to my Muslim and Buddhist acquaintances. We ultimately must accept "the other's" testimony as to what they have seen and felt and experienced. And compare it to ours. Wouldn't it be neat to have a "Bill Nye The Science Guy" for religion?

"When I was fourteen, my old man was so dumb, I almost hated to have him around. But when I turned twenty one, I was amazed at how smart he had become in only seven years." = Mark Twain =

Back in the saddle, Pack... Pack: What I seek is the above type of discussion to be correctly labeled. This is not "politics", it is about Faith, and even Chaplaincy (thank you MattR, that's what you were doing, acting the Chaplain. Keep on keeping on!). So it has ever been here abouts. The heretical idea of atheistic Scouts is no more outlandish than convincing some folks that the BSA is not (not!) a Christian organization. Some Troops/Packs/Crews/Ships may well be overtly Christian (the COs can so require), but the BSA is not of any one faith. Why then must it be of any faith at all? The Scout Promise and Law are moral precepts that I have found acceptable by Muslim mosque, Jewish synagogue, Buddhist temple , Unitarian church, Protestant church and Catholic cathedral. Why not Ethical Society? The biggest stumbling block seems to be the ethical society's tendency to denigrate rather than to seek common ground with other faiths . And yes, I see the reliance on logic and reason before unsupported blind faith as a "faith". The only difference there being the "faith " in what one can see, rather than in something that cannot be overtly felt by the five usual senses. My personal faith in Christ is perhaps not demonstrable but is, in George Fox's terms, "experimental", in that I have "experienced" it. This discussion is not politics, it is faith. Why not label it appropriately?

Your son has been short changed by Scouting. And, you have been in more than one Troop? ""In the past troops, he was told by SM to get the worksheet done and find a counsler, then he would get a blue card signed by SM. I had to buy the blue cards from the scout shop because the troop never had any blue cards."" This SM is not following the program, the Troop is not supporting the program. Your dues should pay for certain stuff from the Troop, notably Blue Cards. The Scout should not have to provide his own Blue Cards. The Scout should not have to learn the proper way to do things (Blue Card, SM approval, find a Counselor, meet with the Counselor, fulfill the MB requirements, gain MBC approval, return Blue Card to Troop Advancement Chair) from OUTSIDE the Troop. The Counselors you spoke to are within their rights to not accept work done previous to the Scout speaking to them initially. Doesn't mean they can't, just that they can. They may also speak to the Scout and decide if the "worksheets" are proof of fulfilling the requirements, or not. As has been said, the easy thing might be to just re-do the requirements, talk to the Counselor in that vein. Or find another Counselor. The GOOD SM has the up to date MBC listing for his District . The Scout can call the Council office and get their best list of Counselors. The un-common MBs are like that, you might have to beat some bushes to find a good Farm Mechanics MBC, for instance. Please congratulate your Scout for me, for being PERSISTANT, and congratulations to YOU for supporting your Scout. Let us know how things turn out.

We keep creating ad hoc "Faith and Chaplaincy" threads. In my role as a Scout Chaplain, I have led discussions (IOLS, District Roundtable) on a Scout's faith or lack thereof. I have led discussions about "Scout's Own " religious services ( thank you Matt R) . The ability of folks to take great umbrage at some other's unwarranted assumptions always makes me shake my head and marvel. In the mean time, let us pray for the young girls in Nigeria and their kidnappers. I have to go to work now, but we will continue this later, no doubt......

#1 Derby Chair: Awesome title. He/she would ( I feel) be in charge of all the PWD arrangements: Track. décor, judges, awards/ prizes (speed, paint, most Scoutlike, most historic, best 60's theme, etc.etc.), snacks, music, weigh in, registration, break up fights ( hope not).. I hope she/he has seen a few PWDs so as to be able to pick and choose the best stuff from each. Do you have a Boy Scout Troop to work with? It's good to have some assistance, and the Scouts can do a bang up job for you. My home Troop runs the whole shebang for their Pack. #2. Yes the rules are in the box, but they only cover the bare basic stuff for the car. Doesn't say anything about how you run the show. Single elimination? Double elimination? Give points ? Rotate cars thru the tracks to even up variations in the tracks? Your Derby Chair and his/her support committee (!!) need to sit down and plan all this out. After all, "It's for the Cubs". #3. Have classes of racers: Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos, Siblings&Guests, Unlimited (adults) are my suggestions, or whatever you feel is appropriate for your group. At "Check In & Registration" where you make sure the car is made according to the rules (weight, dimensions, axles, wheels) , the Registrar should be someone impartial ( your Commissioner? Your DE? A Boy Scout Leader? Pastor?) and able to defuse dads who are SURE the scale is incorrect. #4. In the building days before the race day, it is nice to have a "workshop " for folks that have need for tools and advice in car creation. Some one in the Pack has tools and someone doesn't, get them together. Race day ,provide a table off to the side as "The Pits" with glue, spare parts, tools for adjustments to cars that didn't make check in the first time.... #5. Council does NOT have final say over the "Rules". Your Pack sets the standard for its event. The standards "in the box" are the ones the cars must meet. All the rest is on you. If your District/Council holds a PWD event, then the car standards will be the same, but the race day rules may be a bit different. #6. If you have a large enough group ( only one entry per Cub? Multi entries in different classes? ) you can have a display , in the auto world called the "Concours de Elegance" ( I think), where the entries are lined up for folks to ooo and aaah at. Make sure the local paper and tv station is notified ahead of time. This kind of local event is always a favorite. Provide photos and a write up for them, if they don't come out. PR is always good for a Pack. "Party Chair"..... plan the parties..... Again, not an offishul BSA position (make 'em a shoulder patch?) this needs to be a real extrovert, a Pearl Mesta, but remember the Cub Mantra: KiS MiF, KiS MiF, "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun" Good Scouting to you!

I believe (there's that word again) we need a "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum. That said, as a Jamboree Scout Chaplain, I have had dealings(conversations? discussions? ) with Scouts that have told me , quote, "I'm not really into that God stuff". Mostly I listen and if it seems appropriate, I ask them about that, I try to draw them out about their faith (or lack of) . I see the lack of as a form of faith. It is a "belief" in "nothing. It does get interesting. I have a daughter who is an avowed atheist. She recently wrote me a letter (remember them?) and in it mentioned a friend who had recently died. She and her husband went to the funeral, which she said was "really beautiful" until the end, when it "got a little too religious". Oh well. Scoutson reads the bible and takes long walks in the woods. The two stepsons are not quite sure....

Check with your District Commissioner/ Unit Commissioner/ District Exec. In our District (fairly urban), some Packs own a track and "rent " it to other Packs, and we have a Troop that will hire out (fund raiser for them) to Packs to provide a track, run the day and festivities (decorations, check in and registration, lively patter, computer projection of standings and results, the whole shebang). Both possibilities. Maybe YOUR Pack might buy the track with the idea of sharing it with other Packs? Do you have a partner Troop? Perhaps the Troop might work with you for the event or to work with other Packs. Good recruiting, lively Boy Scouts officiating at the PWD! And then, when you have some experience staging a good Pack event, offer to schedule a District event?

Talk about opportunity....Am I correct in thinking this is an outdoor, picnic type affair? Build several "Hand Washing Stations": Lash up tripods, hang soap from mesh bags (cherry tomatoes, onions) and milk jugs of water, and paper towels on the tripod stick ends. AND lash up trash bag holders.... Make sure the boys "escort" the ladies to the tables, maybe even carry the plate/tray for older folks. Flag folding demo. (entertainment). Set up a dining fly shelter for shade? For ticket taking? For a Scout display of photos and gear to ooooh and aaaah at... Who cuts the fire wood? Schleps the charcoal? Turns the spit? Be creative! Don't forget the newspapers and local notice boards! The K of C will love to share the limelight, I'm sure. What was the last High Adventure trip? Power Point running on the side?

Yes the story was already shared, but it is still worth retelling. I used to drive around a lot when I was "fully" employed, and when I saw a USflag in front of a library or business, I would drop off my Scout business card and tell them when the flag is worn and torn and no longer a worthy symbol of our nation, give me a call and I will come by, pick it up and make sure it gets a proper "retirement" ceremony. **Wow, you mean the Scouts do that? ** What do you mean "retirement"? **We always wondered if it was ok to just wrap it up and put it gently in the trash... Even now, years later, I still get calls from these same people who before might not have known about such things. Some institutions, it seems, send the flag BACK to the company they bought it from when they order anew one, I think that's ok. But I get ALOT of flags for camporees and Webelos Weekends.....

Candles. Always do stuff with candles, and the words said should connect with the candle lighting. Grabs the Cubs attention and they will remember the words if the presenters set the mood. If you want serious, the Cubs will remember serious and important. If you want funny, they will remember funny. The earning of the ranks should be fun and enjoyable, but I think the awarding should be more serious and "meaningful" , reflecting the values and tenets we adults would like the Cubs to remember after the cake and cookies. Do a candle lighting with red, white and blue candles, attached to the "spirit of Scouting", the "Cub Scout (soon to be the Scout) Promise", the " Law of the Pack (soon to be the Scout Law)", and the various parts thereof. Turn off the TV and consider the ceremony. KiS, MiF. but important!

Coffee. Talk. Management styles. Boy led, parent involvement. Camp every month? Once a year? Patrol autonomy? Troop camping? Who is the new CCh? The new (old) SM? Flip a coin? How 'bout the equipment? Scout accounts (HORRORS)? Sell popcorn or holiday trees? . Summer camp? Philmont ? Lots to discuss. Assume NOTHING..... have a BIG parent meeting, in a circle, preferably, rather than "church style" (face the pulpit) so all can see and meet all. Do the boys know each other? Different schools? So much is often un-said, but thought to be "understood" . Make sure it really IS UNDERSTOOD..

What has been said before. AND.... A Scout is Cheerful. If you can help LEAD this parent to the true Scout experience, we will all be the better for it. Immediately telling him he is not wanted and had better find another Pack is counterproductive and not fair to the boy. He will find out about his dad soon enough, eventually. A friendly (underline) sit down may have better results than an ultimatum. The dad may not realize the way he is coming off to others. He may well be a highly intelligent , well meaning , gregarious, able man. He may be frustrated at work, seeking an outlet for his talent and energy. Help him find that outlet, to the benefit of all.

!! Now THERE'S an idea.... Talk to the District Advancement Chair/Committee and create one! I bet that's an idea that could find some agreement. Our District has a Unit Leader Award that is often tweeked to include such worthy spouses.

If at all possible DO NOT allow wife to be Committee Chair. Keep wife as wife. Unless she'd like to be Den Leader?

For the hospital it is always (I would hope) about the patient. For the insurance company, it is ALWAYS about the money. I hope the claim reviewers got a nice gold star on their files.