SSScout

In general, I agree with Old Ox. And.... Since it is :next year", you do have some time to adjust and plan. Check with your District Commissioner and District Executive and help them to earn their pay (!), such as it is. To my ken, any registered Cub can attend any CS Day Camp (or Twilight camp) in any BSA District/Council. So, one does what one must. "After all, it's for the kids"

Smile and wave as you go by! I always say that your boy is only 8 (or 9, or 10....) once, and if you don't have a "connection" with him by the time he's thirteen, you won't have one when he is eighteen. "Enjoy the ride" , indeed! Good Scouting to you!

I'm with KDD. The three sides are a camp but with their own set of problems. (what? Camp has problems? ). Daddy Long Legs are the bedevilers at our camp. And all along the AT, that is what you will see, Ad-a-ron-dacks. The tent platforms are better for the camper, but , hey, the Ad's are a long term investment, yes? OA comes out in the spring to sweep out the creepy crawlies, instead of the character building canvas throwing party. I say counting these as simply "long term" camping does not dishonor the Camping MB requirements. It is similar to a tent, just a (soon to be) leaky wooden roof instead of canvas. Are they low enough to the ground to be climbed up on? Of course they are. Added value! Signal flags to the next campsite! Jumping down to break ankles! First Aid MB! Ski jumps in the winter! Sun tan beds if not shaded! Ghost story noises for the Tenderfeet! Rocks and gravel tossed and rolled down! Oh, the possibilities!

No, not bowline, use a parallel splice. Back to back?? Front to back?? Spanish bowline would allow a double sitdown arrangement. Hosea 11:4. I wish them a long and fun life.... And Good Scouting to them!

Friend Merlyn: Thank you. I might have known, Emo Phillips. But the Google search brought up Jeff Holder.... glad to see the "original". It still brings up the stupefying theological subdivisions we all may deal with. Babel Tower condos for sale, anyone?

This is what an Eagle service project should be. An inspired idea from the Scout, he saw a need and made it happen. When he runs for president in 30 years, I hope I am still around to vote for him.

Oh, that's so neat!

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. So I ran up to him and said, "Don't do it!" He said, "My life has no meaning." I said, "You must have something to live for. Are you religious?" He said, "Yes." I said, "So I am I! Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "So I am I! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "So I am I! Which denomination?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "So I am I! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "So I am I! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "So I am I! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "So I am I!" Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I yelled, "Die, heretic!" and I shoved him over. = from Jeff Holder = http://www.i-am.org/members/index.php/154-style

Candy bars, Ha!! I still remember the troop of my halcyon youth selling donuts. ScoutDads would go down to the Krispy Kreme in Silver Spring and come back with station wagons full of , oh, maybe a thousand dozen WARM donuts. They must have arranged this in advance. We Scouts would gather at the church at 7am on the Saturday morning, divvy up the donuts and proceed thru the neighborhoods (each patrol had routes), and knock on doors! In Uniform! One car, two Scouts, a fifty or so dozen donuts. OOOO that car smelled good. "Good morning, would you like to buy a dozen fresh donuts to help Scout Troop xyz? " Often, we would be told, "hey, we've been waiting for you! Why don't you come round more often?" Rare was the door that did not buy a dozen (or three!) , still warm, gooey, fresh donuts on Saturday morning. We would do this maybe three times a year.

AZMike: I have wondered who or what determines the "quality " of the Karma. If one's Karma determines which way one goes/arrives in their next life, then how is that credited? Whose value determines how an act is credited, Karma wise? Is it to consider how the act advances or detracts from the progress of the universe? 56 million humans died as a result of WW2. How do we determine the Karma value of the actions of the folks that contributed to that total?

Have to agree with AZMike. About Le V and comparing the historical Jesus with Buddhism. Even Jesus taught in the Temple, and I seem to remember him quoted as saying he was here more to correct Judaism than to replace it. Do we need the biblical references? After all, Jesus was not a Christian! That term came waaaay later.

Le V: Now THERE is a statement of faith: :" Ya put yer WHOLE self in....."That's what it's all about".

Time to play a little catch up. Not Quackers..... Quakers, as in "quaking before the word of the Lord." (yes there is a story behind that). Aside: The Quaker Oats company was started by Friends (our official name, as in" Religious society of...." see John 15:14-15 ) but the company passed out of Quaker ken long ago. They wouldn't even help our Jamboree Display. Yes, a traditional Friends Meeting is without professional clergy. We meet together, in silence, waiting on the Spirit to inspire a message. If someone is moved to speak, they stand and give that message. We might sit in silence for an hour, we might have a dozen messages. There was a theological split back in the 1820s, and you will see "Friends Church" along the road, they have a paid pastor. Weall share the same history and founder (George Fox), but a "Friends Meeting" usually has no pastor, but there are exceptions. Have I confusticated things sufficiently for you? Like every "recognized" faith in the BSA, we have a Committee that is the liaison of our faith with the various Scouting organizations (GSUSA,BSA, Scouts Canada, Campfire, etc. ) You may visit us at http://quakerscouting.org/fcs-wp/ . And, there is the Friends World Committee for Consultation www.fwccamericas.org which tries to tie together the various permutations of Friends around the world . As in many things theological, it is best to find a local Meeting/Church and , as Paul said, "come and see". PM me and I will do my best to explain .

I'm gonna put a piece of tape over the upper left corner of my screen and write "Religion and Ethics Thread" on it. Thank you JBlake/stosh, thee speaks my mind. When I am asked to say a grace, or open a meeting with a prayer, I recognize the difficulty of being "inclusive". As a Quaker, it is easy for me to be spiritual without being too Christian (!), but I also find that when someone else offers a prayer for our group, I have come to accept that , hey, if someone asks their g(G)od to bless me, in whatever form that blessing may take or become, who am I to deny it? Woodbadge teaches that "all feedback is a gift". I think all blessings are a gift , too, be it asked of God, or Allah, or Buddha or Manatou. . I could see a non-believer asking that we all accept the gift of life, be it accident, coincidence or intended. Some could accept it easier than others. Some will always resent the gift, being (they think) unearned or not created by themselves.

This avatar is both good and not so. I bemoan the loss of the Junglebook reference. Kids even today need the literary reference, the ability to make the comparison, Wolf Leader= Cub Leader. Even my wife liked being referred to as Bagherra, if I was Akela. No more BALOO, no Shere Khan (for tigers?) . Can we still refer to Kipling's "If" ( not considering Kipling's politics or chauvinism)? The loss of a "good" fantasy life (growing up in the Jungle with wolves for parents? How cool is that?) vs all the dreck offered our kids today. I see Ethan as BSA trying to give Cubs (if they read?) a "friend" rather than a "role model" adult. Would a Cub prefer a comic book character to a adult showing how to tie a knot or pointing to a raccoon track? What is BSA really doing here? Better yet, what is the result desired? I see the old Cub books etc. as a means for parents/uncles/aunts to connect with the Cub . What is Ethan's purpose, really? Rather than Ethan showing the Cub "The Scouting Trail" ( I think that is the idea), isn't it better if the mom or dad sits down with the Cub and shares the Trail ..... Ultimately, it's still up to the local folks to make Cub Scouting a worthy alternative to the "rest of the world". The Cub's Den should still be ideally his "gang".

"""Patches? We ain't got no patches! We don't need no patches ! I don't have to show you any steenkin 'patches!"" Apologies to John Huston.... I like the idea of organizing a District or Council wide event. Make the effort and find the venue to let lots of Cubs and BoyScouts get the patch fever. Sell the multiples, trade the extras, get the ones you missed.

Yep. No middle name. Now, what is the middle name of the President in 1948?

Oh well, I guess I am saying a different promise..... I hope we can all agree that YOUR duty to God may not be the same as MINE. If we have multiple faiths, and multiple interpretations of those faiths, "duty to God" has to be NOT a single, definitive thing. I would never expect my Muslim Scout to do the same thing the LDS Scout does, either in ritual or moral expectation. Wear a hat? Bend a knee? Eat a BLT? Share a beer? Drink coffee? Have my group worship on the sixth day of the week? The seventh? The first? Say, where do we start counting weekdays, anyway? I have a calendar from Spain, and both Saturday and Sunday are on the RIGHT end of the page. What's to prevent our athiest/agnostic Scout from promising to do HIS duty to God and determine that duty is to do NOTHING? What's to prevent us from accepting that? If he is otherwise demonstrably following the Scout Law and Promise, where is the problem? Take that paragraph off the back of the Adult Volunteer Application and we're in business.

Epaulette loops make good necker woggles. Roll'em back on themselves, a little glue to hold'em. Put lots of pins (BALOO , PWD, BSAthanks, whathave you) on'em and they stick on the necker quite well. Some Councils/Districts award loops for events. Here in Murlin, I have seen many loops with crabs, stars, fireworks (1812!) and they are eye catching. Worn along with the usual red/green/reallygreen/silver/gold loops.

I have some things to offer if I can get my dropbox account to work. In the mean time, I vibrate/agree with much that has been said. The idea that "my religion is better than your religion" has been the basis of many a war. ""The biggest problem I have is religious bigotry with the middle school age boys--they seem to see things so black and white. The muslim and hindu boys get called 'terrorist' -- that sort of thing. The elementary age newbies are pretty nice and the high schoolers are starting to get more tolerant again"" is true to my observation. Fifty years ago (!), I remember an Jr. High English class that devolved into a discussion of the causes of war, specifically WW2. One of my classmates expressed a disbelief that the Holocaust ever happened. The story was a made up piece of propaganda from Zionists (this from a 13 year old ?). Well, I had never seen Mr. Emler get so red in the face or act so obviously self controlled. He carefully and slowly explained he had been in the Third Army that had liberated Buchenwald.. In carefully crafted sentences he described , in no small amount of detail, what he had seen and done. The "disbeliever" had no answer to this. No one asked him where he got his story, but it was implied from his family. Such personal, eye witness testimony has a never forgotten effect. No one there was going to accuse Mr. Emler of being a liar. So it is with religion. We get it first from our folks, to be accepted whole or rejected, and add to (or subtract from) it with our own experience and research. If we can gain the courage to do the research. But it is the personal testimony that ultimately counts. What have you experienced? What have you personally seen and can testify to? Can you believe the witness of people long dead and gone? Do you require your own "miracles" to prove your faith or are the stories and events recorded by others sufficient? In a Christian sense, we don't have big miracles any more. One has to look for small ones. What some might say is a "coincidence", another might see as a SMALL miracle, some proof of the spiritual. Help given when needed that has no real physical explanation, but it was there, none the less. I hear the same ideas when I speak to my Muslim and Buddhist acquaintances. We ultimately must accept "the other's" testimony as to what they have seen and felt and experienced. And compare it to ours. Wouldn't it be neat to have a "Bill Nye The Science Guy" for religion?

"When I was fourteen, my old man was so dumb, I almost hated to have him around. But when I turned twenty one, I was amazed at how smart he had become in only seven years." = Mark Twain =

Back in the saddle, Pack... Pack: What I seek is the above type of discussion to be correctly labeled. This is not "politics", it is about Faith, and even Chaplaincy (thank you MattR, that's what you were doing, acting the Chaplain. Keep on keeping on!). So it has ever been here abouts. The heretical idea of atheistic Scouts is no more outlandish than convincing some folks that the BSA is not (not!) a Christian organization. Some Troops/Packs/Crews/Ships may well be overtly Christian (the COs can so require), but the BSA is not of any one faith. Why then must it be of any faith at all? The Scout Promise and Law are moral precepts that I have found acceptable by Muslim mosque, Jewish synagogue, Buddhist temple , Unitarian church, Protestant church and Catholic cathedral. Why not Ethical Society? The biggest stumbling block seems to be the ethical society's tendency to denigrate rather than to seek common ground with other faiths . And yes, I see the reliance on logic and reason before unsupported blind faith as a "faith". The only difference there being the "faith " in what one can see, rather than in something that cannot be overtly felt by the five usual senses. My personal faith in Christ is perhaps not demonstrable but is, in George Fox's terms, "experimental", in that I have "experienced" it. This discussion is not politics, it is faith. Why not label it appropriately?

Your son has been short changed by Scouting. And, you have been in more than one Troop? ""In the past troops, he was told by SM to get the worksheet done and find a counsler, then he would get a blue card signed by SM. I had to buy the blue cards from the scout shop because the troop never had any blue cards."" This SM is not following the program, the Troop is not supporting the program. Your dues should pay for certain stuff from the Troop, notably Blue Cards. The Scout should not have to provide his own Blue Cards. The Scout should not have to learn the proper way to do things (Blue Card, SM approval, find a Counselor, meet with the Counselor, fulfill the MB requirements, gain MBC approval, return Blue Card to Troop Advancement Chair) from OUTSIDE the Troop. The Counselors you spoke to are within their rights to not accept work done previous to the Scout speaking to them initially. Doesn't mean they can't, just that they can. They may also speak to the Scout and decide if the "worksheets" are proof of fulfilling the requirements, or not. As has been said, the easy thing might be to just re-do the requirements, talk to the Counselor in that vein. Or find another Counselor. The GOOD SM has the up to date MBC listing for his District . The Scout can call the Council office and get their best list of Counselors. The un-common MBs are like that, you might have to beat some bushes to find a good Farm Mechanics MBC, for instance. Please congratulate your Scout for me, for being PERSISTANT, and congratulations to YOU for supporting your Scout. Let us know how things turn out.

We keep creating ad hoc "Faith and Chaplaincy" threads. In my role as a Scout Chaplain, I have led discussions (IOLS, District Roundtable) on a Scout's faith or lack thereof. I have led discussions about "Scout's Own " religious services ( thank you Matt R) . The ability of folks to take great umbrage at some other's unwarranted assumptions always makes me shake my head and marvel. In the mean time, let us pray for the young girls in Nigeria and their kidnappers. I have to go to work now, but we will continue this later, no doubt......

#1 Derby Chair: Awesome title. He/she would ( I feel) be in charge of all the PWD arrangements: Track. décor, judges, awards/ prizes (speed, paint, most Scoutlike, most historic, best 60's theme, etc.etc.), snacks, music, weigh in, registration, break up fights ( hope not).. I hope she/he has seen a few PWDs so as to be able to pick and choose the best stuff from each. Do you have a Boy Scout Troop to work with? It's good to have some assistance, and the Scouts can do a bang up job for you. My home Troop runs the whole shebang for their Pack. #2. Yes the rules are in the box, but they only cover the bare basic stuff for the car. Doesn't say anything about how you run the show. Single elimination? Double elimination? Give points ? Rotate cars thru the tracks to even up variations in the tracks? Your Derby Chair and his/her support committee (!!) need to sit down and plan all this out. After all, "It's for the Cubs". #3. Have classes of racers: Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos, Siblings&Guests, Unlimited (adults) are my suggestions, or whatever you feel is appropriate for your group. At "Check In & Registration" where you make sure the car is made according to the rules (weight, dimensions, axles, wheels) , the Registrar should be someone impartial ( your Commissioner? Your DE? A Boy Scout Leader? Pastor?) and able to defuse dads who are SURE the scale is incorrect. #4. In the building days before the race day, it is nice to have a "workshop " for folks that have need for tools and advice in car creation. Some one in the Pack has tools and someone doesn't, get them together. Race day ,provide a table off to the side as "The Pits" with glue, spare parts, tools for adjustments to cars that didn't make check in the first time.... #5. Council does NOT have final say over the "Rules". Your Pack sets the standard for its event. The standards "in the box" are the ones the cars must meet. All the rest is on you. If your District/Council holds a PWD event, then the car standards will be the same, but the race day rules may be a bit different. #6. If you have a large enough group ( only one entry per Cub? Multi entries in different classes? ) you can have a display , in the auto world called the "Concours de Elegance" ( I think), where the entries are lined up for folks to ooo and aaah at. Make sure the local paper and tv station is notified ahead of time. This kind of local event is always a favorite. Provide photos and a write up for them, if they don't come out. PR is always good for a Pack. "Party Chair"..... plan the parties..... Again, not an offishul BSA position (make 'em a shoulder patch?) this needs to be a real extrovert, a Pearl Mesta, but remember the Cub Mantra: KiS MiF, KiS MiF, "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun" Good Scouting to you!