SR540Beaver

Well crud, there goes my running mate.

Since the bag of doody is obviously a "smellable" that attracts critters, does it go up in the bear bag with the food stuffs or in its own bag? I'd prefer not to confuse it with the oatmeal in the morning. BTW, the Beav has to use a long sleeping bag, so there is no room in the stuff sack. The Antelope is shorter.....should be plenty of room in his.

If elected, I promise to fulfill ALL my campaign promises.

And secondly, you must be a pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply, and you're not. And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules....

Note to all. AntelopeDud is one of my cohorts in crime in our unit. He is good people, please treat him as such. Second note to all. AntelopeDud is just upset because we threatened to name him the crew poop packer for this summer's high adventure trip. He thinks he already handles enough crap as CC.

emb021, I would assume that Venturing is like a Troop in that you have to have a CO, X number of adults and X number of youth to obtain a charter and stay chartered in the future. To crow about their numbers, they have to have "actual" adults and youth registered to those units. Can a school with 9 Crews claim every kid in the school as members of 9 different Crews? Somewhere there has to be registration forms that added them to the CO's roster. There also have to be adult leaders and someone has to be getting the recharter signed and filed annually. How do you have youth on a roster without valid registration forms? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you cook them right, alpacas make for some mighty tasty grub.

"I guess I just don't understand this...to me, the MB recognizes what the boy has accomplished." Well.....yes and no. MB's serve as a springboard for a boy exploring interests that could turn into hobbies or even a vocation. Yes the boy is recognized for his accomplishments while doing the MB and his MBC signs off on each requirement after he feels they have been satisfied. Still the question remains of whether or not the MBC "should" sign off for work done prior to taking the MB. The scout can't take the MB without getting SM approval first. If I had a boy come to me and say, "gee, I took music last year in school and my parents saved all my work, so I'll just sign up, bring my documentation and get all the checkmarks by the MBC and get a patch", I'd probably tell him to find another MB to do. The idea is to introduce boys to interesting subjects and to learn about them and show some profeciency in the subject to the satisfaction of an MBC qualified to TEACH the subject. Just attaining check marks on a form for a quick and easy patch to add to your sash isn't what MB's are supposed to be about. The accomplishment should be what the boy explained or demonstrated to the MBC after signing up for the MB. Many, many MB's have a first aid requirement to them. Lets say a boy is a Life Scout. He has obviously passed the first aid requirements for the lower ranks. He probably has already taken the first aid MB. If the Backpacking, hiking, cycling, climbing, etc. MB has a first aid requirement, do you just automatically check it off or do you expect them to be able to do the requirement? We can't add or subtract to the requirements. Passing one over with a check mark would come close to subtracting a requirement. An SM might tell me that the boy has great first aid skills. Do I just take his word as an MBC or do should I expect the boy to be able to explain or demonstrate?

Crew, Boy are you correct! I started doing a Google search to try to help Robert out without much luck. If you didn't know that the BSA had Regions, you sure wouldn't find out by going to the BSA website or the majority of Council websites. It is alomst as if Regions don't exist. The site you referenced was all I could find that would be of any use. You'd think BSA would have a site that listed every Region's National Camping School schedule since it is a requirement for folks running camps. It would make sense. But no. Of course, I find a whole lot lacking on the BSA website. Other than a mailing address and phone number, there is no contact information for folks at national. Not even a list of who is who at national. I guess if you want to know about NSC, you would have to contact your council for the information.

I did some exploring the other day after Google(ing) "patrol method" and a few other terms like "history", "William Hillcourt" and "Green Bar Bill". I even read some of what BP himself had to say about patrols. I then went to the BSA website and read some of what they have to say about patrols. Honestly, I just don't see that much difference between yester-year and today. Are there troops where the adults get in the way and hamper patrols? Sure. I'll be the same was true 30, 40 and 50 years ago too. Probably the biggest difference would be how patrols are made. Still, I bet the same was true even in the good old days. Patrols ebb and flow over time. They can get to be all one age or too small or to large or a social clique. Sometimes this can create problems. Often you'll see adults interject themselves onto the patrol makeup. Again, I'd lay money onthis happening long ago. A patrol was supposed to be a natural gang of boys who play together. Times have changed. My son and I drive over 20 miles one way to get to our troop even though there is a troop less than a mile from our house. None of the boys there would be someone he would play with in the neighborhood or school. We utilize the new scout patrol for about the 1st nine months a boy is in the troop. We utilize the "older" boys to do teaching and training, so the new boys and older boys are exposed to each other. When it is time for them to move to regular patrols, everyone has a pretty good idea of where they fit in. Just like allowing for new materials like nylon, aluminum and fleece, how a patrol comes together in this day and age might need to change based on the circumstance. The patrol method is alive and well in the BSA program and in the individual units. It has evolved some just like equipment has. But while a bulky and heavy canvas tent is a tent, so is a lighweight nylon backpacking tent. A patrol is still a patrol and the patrol method is still the patrol method. If new leaders will follow the BSA program as designed, the patrol method will be utilized.

mikeb, If you have an 18 to 21 year old who is "new" to scouting, why would you be nominating him to the OA? We have many, many uniformed leaders in our troop. That does not get you automatically considered for OA. In our troop, it has to do with who is dedicated, camps and provides service to the boys. We have adults who are fair weather campers, don't work directly with the boys and have spotty attendance. Since we are limited in the number of adults we can select, those folks will be the last people picked. We like to pick people who will provide service and dedication to OA just like they have to the troop. A "new" person, regardless of age is an unknown in those regards and would be back in line behind the folks who have been around for a while and not yet nominated. I realize that troop size varies as well as adult leadership numbers. People shouldn't be picked just for the sake of having an adult in OA or especially just to add another colorful patch to their shirt.

Webelos resident camp. My son had a brand new hat from the trading post. While in the latrine, one of his fellow Webelos came in and gave him a shove from behind. My son's new hat went down the hole. Needless to say, he wasn't happy about it and he certainly didn't want it fished out. The other boy's dad marched his son down to the trading post to buy a new hat. He laughs about it now, but not back then.

Eamonn, Why the decline? I hope it is because of the removal of ghost units and not the actual loss of kids. I just went out to the Venturing section of the BSA's website to their unit locator page. In my area, there were a lot of Crew chartered to things like the County Juvenile Detention Center, Foundation for the Disabled, Knowledge is Power Prep, Parents for PAWS, Positive Tomorrows, Service Learning Center-Campfire, Human Restorations, etc. One high school in the area had 9, count them, 9 Crews chartered to it while one church had 2 Crews. I'm willing to bet you that if I called the school and told them my son was a student and wanted to join a Venturing Crew, they would have no idea what I was talking about. This is just wrong. Someone is doing a sales job to justify numbers to keep a job. The DE's job should not be tied to membership and fundraising. He should serve as a service interface to the council in particular and the BSA in General. The council should have other people whose primary purpose is recruitment and fundraising. Until they quit basing jobs on numbers, we will see false numbers for ghost units that only get cleaned up when a scandal ensues.

prairie, You might be reinventing the wheel. Propper is a manufacturer of BDU's for the military, police, etc. and also offer their products to the public. They make a variety of BDU clothing in several blends and colors. Take a look here: https://www.epropper.com/categoryattribute/13 www.propper.com is their entry portal. epropper is where you can buy their products directly.

I understand the thinking behind allowing camping prior to taking the MB to count. I think it partly has to do with most camping occuring at two night intervals and how long it would take to get to 20. We have this mindset of "immediate recognition". Aww, he has done it, lets just sign off. Lets look at it from a different perspective. My son is in 8th grade and is taking Newspaper this year which means he is part of the school paper staff. Let's say that this is his last time to staff the school paper. He moves on to 9th or 10th grade and decides to take the Journalism MB. One of the requirements is: 4. Attend a public event and do ONE of the following: a. Write two newspaper articles about the event, one using the inverted pyramid style and one using the chronological style. b. Using a radio or television broadcasting style write a news story, a feature story and a critical review of the event. c. Take a series of photographs to help tell the story of the event in pictures. Include news photos and feature photos in your presentation. Write a brief synopsis of the event as well as captions for your photos. Should he get to count this because he did it a year or two ago in school or should he do it while taking the MB? Another way to look at this is the first aid requirement in many MB's. If you've passed that requirement for the Backpacking MB, is there any reason you should have to demonstrate your knowledge for any of the other MB's with that requirement? Heck, if you have the First Aid MB, shouldn't an MBC just check that requirement off on any other MB? I know that the ultimate answer is that it is up to the MBC and the SM can not approve the MB for a boy with a specific MBC that he finds questionable. I just think that if I were an MBC, I'd expect a boy to do all the requirements once he signed up to do the MB and not count his hobbies or activities from previous years.

local1400: "Any time you can give is worthwhile Beav." Local, I agree in general. But if I sign up to be the ASM for new scouts and can only find time to show up for one troop meeting a month and ever other outing, I'm hindering the program more than I'm helping it. When my son was a Webelos II, one of the dads stepped up and requested to be the Den Leader. When the boys were Webelos I's their DL was a lady. He and she both felt that the boys needed to get used to having a male adult leader. That was fine with everyone involved. This guy (a great guy BTW) was an EMT by day and a student by night. The only evening he had available for Den meetings was Friday evenings. Our attendance dropped to half within a month. Half way thru the season, he decided it was too much and dropped out leaving me the CC and the CM to take over as DL's to finish out the year. All I'm saying is that if people are biting off more than they can chew, maybe they should consider smaller bites. We can't have it ALL no matter how much we want it.

One thing that was not addressed in the new requirements was when the 20 nights begin. That has always been a topic of discussion in these parts. If you have an avid camping Scout who has been in the program for 3 years and is a Star or Life scout before beginning the MB, do you count the camping he did prior to starting the MB or do you start counting after he signs up? I know folks who take a stand on either side. Consider other MB's. If a kid did all the requirements for a MB last year in school and he signs up for the MB today, do you simply sign off all the requirements and hand him his MB or do you expect him to do the requirements after signing up? I don't have a problem with the camping requirement having to be a scouting related activity. There will be boys and parents who want to count their RV trip to the lake as camping because they are "outdoors" and roasted weenies over a fire one night. My son has a friend whose family are avid RV'ers. They refer to it as camping. I tell him no, they are RV'ing.

To each his own....but for me personally, I won't get involved in something unless I can devote the needed time to it. I'm short changing myself and all those involved if I can't do it "right". A good scouting buddy of mine asked me to staff a council course he was course director for. I really, really wanted to do it. It would have been a blast getting to work with him again. But in looking at the first 26 weeks of 2007, I had something scout related going on for at least 15 of them. I could have squeezed it in, but I told him that I would not have been able to do the kind of job he and I would both expect of me. I told him thanks, but no. He told me he respected that. If you are going to be involved in scouting, you need to be involved in scouting. What example are you setting for the boys if you do it half way?

The best survival skill is to imitate our animal friends. There is a reason birds migrate south in the winter and north in the summer. Do they have more sense than us?

scoutldr, The spelling I know is pogey bait. I learned this term from my dad who was a WWII Marine. Pogey bait is basically junk food and candy. I never thought to ask him what a "pogey" was. Since I understood what pogey bait was, it didn't seem important to me to know why it was called that. I have to admit, I'm a pogey. fscout, While I don't disagree with allowing pop-tarts, boys will often take a mile when given an inch. The use of pop-tarts should not necessarily be banned, but used as a teaching tool. I once served a troop that had had a problem with raman noodles. The boys came to rely on them for every campout because they were fast and easy. They cooked nothing else. Just boiled water. Then they got so lazy that they decided to skip boiling water and eat the raman noodles dry. Items like pop-tarts often will lead boys down that road unless checked. We do allow the boys to do powdered donuts and such for Sunday breakfast to facilitate earlier breakdown of camp. But doing baggie omlettes is quick and has no clean up involved. Which do you think is more nutritious? Getting jacked up on sweets or eggs with possibly cheese, onion, peppers, salsa and tortillas.

Jeff, I'm an ASM for new scouts in our Troop. The very first question asked by each boy crossing over is when can they earn their Totin' Chit and Firem'n Chit. It makes them feel grown up and is a badge of honor. They really have very little need for either at that stage of their scouting life. Needless to say, it is not the first thing we teach them. There are many vital skills they need to learn liking setting up a tent and cooking before anything else.

LNT is like the "Pirate's Code" from Pirates of the Carribean. There more like, um......guidelines.

prairie, Not a problem. Just take along a Brunton SolarRoll to recharge those batteries. http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=256 Flexible Solar Panels Amorphous solar cells for effective low-light performance Reverse flow protection Tefzel fluoropolymer construction for extreme durability Waterproof UV transparent Link multiple like-units together for even more output Rolls and stores in convenient storage tube Includes vehicle outlet cable & multi-linking cable One-year warranty SolarRoll 14 MSRP: $449 12"x57" open 17 oz Max output: 14 watts (15.4 Volts / 900 mA) Perfect for running satellite phones and charging laptops

We had two "deathbed'ers" this past year. I didn't know them from Adam when they returned and wanted to get Eagle. Our SM will bend over backwards to assist them if they actually show some personal gumption to get it done....and there is enough time. He won't poke or prod them, they have to want it and dedicate themselves to doing the work. We also had a third boy last year who said he "wanted" to earn his Eagle at the last minute, but he didn't lift a finger and ran out of time. One of these boys who did Eagle gave a little speech at his ECOH. The subject was basically to look to him as an example of how not to do it. He regretted his time away from the troop and waiting until the last minute. He encouraged the boys to stick with it. My son turns 14 in a few weeks. He should have Life by then. "His" desire is to earn Eagle by his 16th birthday. I'm not pushing and hope that he keeps that goal in front of him over the next two years. He has seen enough guys leave the troop for sports, girls, jobs, etc. when they turn 16 and then come back at 17.5 wanting to earn Eagle, that he has determined on his own to try to be ahead of the curve. Now, Dad's desire is that he will stay in as an Eagle until his 18th birthday. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Our troop or should I say patrols are pretty much in line with what anarchist describes in his unit. Because of some corner cutting by a few of the patrols in the recent past, we have a variety of adults willing to check the patrol menu prior to their shopping. We do expect them to follow the handbook guidelines for nutritious meal planning. We only do one troopwide cooking campout. It is when we go to a big rendezvous in Kansas in January that has about 4,000 in attendance. It is a "fun" campout with lots of program and trading. The patrols still help with prep, cooking and KP, but there is one menu for adults and boys alike. We do it this way to maximize the time the boys get to spend at the activities.