SR540Beaver

Can anyone provide a single scripture from the Bible that condemns slavery?

I always thought that the purpose of the scout uniform was for the sake of identification with and pride in the scouting movement and to equalize class differences. Has that changed?

Beavah: "Yet o'course, perfect implementation of every one of the methods isn't required (or there would be no Scout Troops at all!), and even individual methods are optional." Allow me to disagree. When looking at the end product, how we get there is very important. Think of the manufacturing process. Lets take a simple look at building a car. You need a frame, engine, tires, body, etc. Think of these as methods. Are any optional or less important than the others? Do we want a car that has an engine that can go 100 MPH but has boat trailer tires? Do we want a car with dump truck tires that has a lawn mower engine? What we want is a car where all the elements are equally matched. We want a "quality" car as the end product. While we may never acheive true perfect implementation of the methods, it should always be our goal. It will produce the most well rounded scouts of all.

DITTO for Oklahoma!!!

The next thing you know and we'll be wanting to ban overweight scouters!!! I guess I could use the time with another worthwhile pursuit of some sort. I understand many people's adverse response to tobacco. I don't use, but I've known many fine people who have and I grew up around it. It matters not to me if someone chooses to use tobacco. Some of the best role models I had growing up did so with a cigarette in their hand.

IMHO, an outing should only be cancelled for safety concerns. For the last several years, our boys have voted to go to Trappers Rendezvous in Kansas. In 2005, the high during the day was around 10 degrees. No problem. In 2006, the temps were in the 50's. Great fun was had by all. In 2007, there was 1 to 2 inches of ice on the interstate between Oklahoma City and Kansas. We cancelled. It was the prudent thing to do. We've come home early once because of ice and sleet accumulation on the tents and beginning on the roads. Other than that, we go regardless of the number of participants. We do have a process in our troop for POR's. Regardless of whether it is an elected or assigned POR, there is an "application" process. There is a form each boy interested in a POR fills out. He can list up to 3 POR's he is interested in and explain why. There is a statement that the boy signs at the bottom making a committment to set the example by wearing a complete uniform, doing his duty, attending meetings and outings, etc. He knows up from what is expected of him in his POR and agrees to it. There is also a line for the parent to sign saying that they will fully support their son in his POR. If a boy wants to be the SPL or a PL.....or any position for that matter, there is an expectation that he will be there to do his job. He should not expect to be elected as SPL and then miss 3 or 4 of the campouts in a 6 month period because he is playing sports. If he has a committment to the sports team, then he needs to run for SPL during the off season when he can devote himself to the job. I say all of that to say this. One of the things you have to teach is that if they make an annual plan and decide when and where they are going, they have an obligation to support the plan when the outing rolls around. There is nothing wrong with adult assistance with looking at the calendar when planning is done. Heck, we have the council calendar, a list of holidays, various school's calendars and college football team schedules in hand to help determine the optimum dates for higher attendance outings. That is what planning is all about. First determine WHEN you can go and then decide what you want to do and where you can go to do it. Publish the list of outing dates and events so families can plan around them. As to should an SM go on every outing. No. Just like the boys, there will be times when something comes up that simply can't be rescheduled or avoided. That said, he is the top dog of programming and he should be at the vast majority of the outings. That is part of the job duties. Lead by example. If you don't show, the boys get the idea that it isn't important for them to either and you end up with 3 of 25 going.

So how competent is your UC? Hmmmm, you mean the unshaven guy with the rumpled shirt and sweat pants? AntelopeDud says he is MIA, but I do remember seeing him a total of one time when he was there to get recharter work from AD. Given his appearance, that is the only time I really want to see him around our unit. I couldn't imagine him doing a uniform inspection.

jblake, You are correct that a Crew can design their own uniform. That being said, Venturing has an official uniform that can be used. If it is used, it is subject to the same "rules and regulations" of wearing it fully and correctly just like the Boy Scout uniform. It is not proper to adopt part of the official uniform and mix it with unofficial parts. It is either the official uniform or the Crew designed uniform.

How well does that Cafe Britt boil up in a pot over a campfire? Can you stand your spoon in it?

kraut, You should get the "Dad of the Year Award" for buying your son a Shelby GT Mustang when he earns his Eagle. What a guy!!!

I agree that it sounds like a good idea. The good Lord knows that an adult walking into a junior high to recruit is going to either hear crickets chirping or laughter. What better way to promote your wares than to let them have a taste. Reminds me of Amway. Oh by the way fellow worker and good friend, the little lady and I are having a little get together over at the house on Friday evening and we'd like you guys to come. Oh yeah, there is going to be this small presentation of a great business opportunity. Just kidding. But who better than the local council with a property to reach out to the community and put on a day camp as a way to get their name and product in front of folks in a good way? If I were a DE or a unit person, I'd really appreciate the council actually doing something to recruit in a positive way rahter than twisting my tail to up the numbers each year on my own.

You can argue about whether or not to wear an illegal adult patrol patch. Our adult patrol is the Duds.....as in a dud firecracker which is exactly what our patch is. The more important point is that the adults acting as a patrol sets an example for the boys. I served another troop where the SM built a Taj Mahal for he and his wife on one cold winter campout. The boys felt it was unfair for them to have all of these creature comforts while they slept on the ground. Rank and age does have their priveleges, but fair is fair. We shouldn't ask them to do things we are not willing to do. We set up tents and patrol areas just like they do. We collect grub money, shop, make a menu and cook just like they do. We have a duty roster just like they do. The boys don't look over at the Duds and see them lounging in chairs with a cold soda in their hand and a radio listening to the game. The one complaint we get from the boys is how good we eat. That is when we take the opportunity to tell them that we collect the same amount of money they do and use the same stoves, pots, pans and dutch ovens they do. Anything we cook and eat is available to them too if they will plan it and make it happen. An adult patrol is a great teaching tool and example. It can be done with or without a patch.

eagle90, I remember back in 2004 and 2005 when I was selected to serve as an ASM for one of our council's three National Jamboree troops. The SM's and ASM's got to call for delinquent monthly payments because the council didn't want to spend the price of a stamp to send out payment notices or late payment notices. Also, I wasn't allowed to make monthly payments for Jamboree with my debit card because the council was charged a per transaction charge by the card company. I could purchase goods in the scout shop because the council was making money off the goos sold that helped offset the card fee. To pay for Jamboree, I had to have a check. When you run into that kind of fiscal "restraint" from your council, it is only natural to be a little miffed at $540 fishing trips. Heck, I can fish for free. There is an old saying that it takes money to make money. I could see a council spending a hefty sum of money if they were courting an individual or corporation with an outlook to bring millions of dollars into the council. This isn't what happened. This was a meeting of the top exec and the 25 largest councils. It was not a fundraiser. A scout is thrifty starts from the top down.....or at least it should.

The simple solution would have been to either remove the cross or add other symbols. I was a Troop Guide for a Wood Badge course this last fall. The council property we use for WB has a chapel with a combination cross/star of david symbol. One of the participants in my patrol was black and very sensitive to diversity issues. He was impressed by this symbol and created one of his WB ticket items to write a proposal to the council to design, build and place an even more inclusive symbol at each council property that has a chapel.

A very good scouting buddy of mine used to be our District Training Chair. He is now the Council Vice Chair for Boy Scout training. He is an Eagle. He has lamented to me numerous times about how the hardest people to get to any training were Eagle Scouts because they had been there, done that and didn't need any training. He also pointed out as many others have that they knew the program from a boy perspective from 20+ years ago and had no idea of how the program operates today.

Pack, You mean camp can be set up in something other than the dark? What a novel idea! Who'd a thunk it? Not only do we do it in the dark, we have done it in the dark while sleeting. Scout camp setup is why God created headlamps, the absolute best invention since sliced bread.

Laura, I'm just curious. Why is your next campout in Septmeber? Does your troop take the summer off instead of go year round? I've only heard of one other troop that took off after summer camp and resumed both meetings and campouts in September.

E, Do what you have to do buddy. Like Scoutldr said, life is short. I turned 50 a couple of weeks ago and it has really made me reflect. I lost my dad 6 years ago and my mom is 78. My aunt (my dad's sister) and my uncle celebrated their 70th weddind anniversary on Sunday, May 27th. It is a 3.5 hour drive to where they live in Kansas and I didn't really want to drive there and back, but mom had no other way to get there. I took her and we had a nice time. Mom called me this morning in tears to tell me that my aunt passed away last night at midnight. She told me as we drove away from Kansas a week ago that it was probably the last time we would see my 91 year old aunt since her health was failing. My mom was so appreciative of getting to go see her one last time. Now 78 and 91 are a lot older than you or me in our 50's, but the math tells you that we are on the down hill side of things. Do what you want. Do what you love. If it is working with kids and Scouts, do it. If it has gotten old and tiring, back away. You've done a great job and have much to be proud of. If you need or want to turn your attention to other matters, especially something as important as your wife, do it. The scouting life will keep moving forward. It will just have a different influence than yours. But it will be built on what you have provided in the past. Do what you need to do. Do what is in your heart.

Perhaps when the boys do their annual planning session they could suggest state parks with cabins for them to stay in instead of those pesky tents. It would certainly help if the cabins had stoves and refrigerators and outlets to plug the DVD player into for campfire on Saturday evening. I wonder what message the SM would get from that?

If I recall correctly, the charter calls for the CO to provide 10 days of overnight camping per year. That could easily be done by leaving on Saturday morning and returning on Sunday for 10 months out of 12 while taking off 2 months for summer heat or winter cold. Now, having said that, please don't get the idea that I endorse it. I'm just saying that the BSA has an answer to how you can accomplish not driving in the dark on a Friday night. You go on Saturday since the CO only has to accommodate 10 nights of camping. I'd give the policy writers in Irving a little more credit. You may have to go different places to find things out, but they seem to have an answer for everything. It seems that the left hand (G2SS) knows what the right hand (Charter agreement) is doing. For long trips during short days, we often send an "early crew" with the trailer who is tasked with getting camp set up before the "late" arrivals show up.

I said all staff and I meant Troop Guides.

I should remember this more clearly since I was on course last fall, but I don't. We did have three Venturing leaders on staff who wore their green shirts. All staff wore blue tabs until crossover time and then we changed to red. We all changed to green when we became Venturers. At least that is what I remember. The tabs had nothing to do with the program you were currently registered in. They instead had to do with what program the staff was modeling during the course.

F, In other words, where there is smoke there is fire?

Lisa, You are correct about making judgements with limited information....but then we have folks saying that getting the information is none of our business in the first place and just ignore it. (This is a general question and not pointed at Lisa.) Let me play devil's advocate. What possible scenario would make it OK and a proper moral example for a young, single, unmarried female in the SM role to get pregnant? I'm thinking about the same time a scenario would make it acceptable for a middle aged, married male in the SM role to bring his girlfriend he is having an affair with to the next campout.

Transport firewood?! Good Lord, we have 65 boys in the unit. Transporting boys, adults and two trailers of gear is already hard enough without loading up a bunch of heavy firewood too. I love campfires as much as anyone else and really miss them as I feel they add something special to the experience. We rarely if ever have campfires except for a small fire for our campfire program on Saturday evening. You'd have to have a bonfire to accomodate 40 to 50 people on a campout or have 5 or 6 patrol fires. That is just too many to have to maintain and manage. Our campouts are planned and scheduled by the boys and revolve around program. There just isn't much time to hang around a fire and you can't leave it burning if you are out climbing or hiking. I do miss them though.