SR540Beaver

I think it is important to understand how the Charter/Unit relationship is supposed to work.....by the book....not in reality. An organization either decides on their own that they want a unit and contacts the council to find out how that happens or a DE or other professional calls on organizations trying to recruit them. Once it is determined that the organization will charter a unit, the organization is charged with appointing a COR. The COR then begins recruiting leadership for the unit beginning with the Committee Chair. The Committee Chair begins recruiting Committee Members and a Scoutmaster/Cubmaster who in turn recruits ASM's/DL's. Everyone has to be approved by the COR while the CO guarantees to meet certain standards for providing an acceptable meeting place and ensuring things like x number of outings per year. In this "by the book" scenario, the CO is totally involved in the start up of the unit and the selection of the leadership and they continue to work together since the unit is an extension of the organization to the surrounding community. How many of you out there still have that kind of relationship with your CO? Some, but not most. As the years go by, a disconnect eventually happens more often than not. Our unit has been around for 45 years and I can guarantee you that there is probably no one around in the CO or the unit who were there when the unit began. Usually it is the unit who is trying to get the CO to "buy in" to the unit once again and improve the relationship. In Lisa's case, it sounds like the CO wants buy in from the unit. That is rare and many units would jump at the chance of bettering the relationship with their benefactor. That being said, there needs to be a fit for involvement with the CO. I'm Baptist and not interested in joining the Methodist church who charters our unit. I've been known to enjoy food and the occasional cigar, but doing a long dinner at a dive bar wouldn't be my cup of tea either. But maybe someone in the unit wouldn't mind it. We are fortunate to have a large pool of adults in our unit and can usually find someone to fill most every niche.

Dan, You are right, her personal morals may tell her it is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. That doesn't mean that the society she lives in will feel the same way or have to accept it. Those who want to "do it their way" have to be willing to accept that others may disapprove and should not claim victim status for it. They made their own bed and have to lay in it. I'm pretty much a libertarian on allowing people to do what they want, but I do expect them to realize that not everyone will think like them.

Forgiveness and redemption are meaningless without some sense of shame and repentance. The second half of that equation is what has gotten lost within our society. In an effort to feel sophisticated and enlightened, we want to tell people that whatever they do is AOK and not to let what others think have any effect on them. That attitude is the beginning of the end for a society. Celebrating a young woman getting pregnant out of wedlock because she is somehow viewed as brave, strong or courageous is sending the wrong message to young men who we are supposed to be teaching how to make ethical choices or to "be prepared". Having to depend on family or social services to help you pay your bills because you short circuited your education and job possibilities by having a baby in tow is not a good message....no matter how tough or brave it makes you look. I know plenty of people with regrets who wish they could go back and change something they did that has a direct effect on their life today. Taking the attitude that nothing wrong was done and that it doesn't set the wrong example is just wrong headed. Sure people deserve a second chance to pull themselves up by the boot straps and reprove themselves. But realizing that what they did was wrong and turning away from continuing on in whatever the infraction was is part of receiving that forgiveness and redemption. Would we think it was OK to look the other way if the SM has 3 or 4 DUI's and gets drunk on campouts? What if he has a substance abuse problem and comes to meetings stoned? What if he is a shoplifter? What if he is a regular down at the local strip bar and parks his truck with the Troop ### tag on it? Some actions have consequences beyond how they affect you personally.

Oddball or not, he was one Texan who actually knew how to run a successful business, cut costs and turn a tidy profit. He could have done the same for the government and that was why I voted for the man.

It starts from the top down and from leading by example. The registered adults in our unit always wear a complete uniform. Our boys have to fill out an application and sign it for any leadership position in the troop. Their parents sign it too to indicate that they will support their son while fulfilling the POR. Part of that application is an agreement to wear a complete uniform and attend regularly. This attitude eventually filters down to every scout in the unit. Wearing the uniform just isn't an issue for our boys, it simply is accepted as what we do in our unit. Everyone wears it as a common practice. I will add, we do require a boy to wear as complete of a uniform as he has to do SM conferences and BOR's. If he shows up without a belt or socks and we know he owns them, no conference or BOR. We have a uniform exchange they can quickly raid or they can borrow from a buddy to get it done. This usually only happens once and they always seem to be properly dressed the next time. Obviously, brand new scouts are given some leeway until they can get fully uniformed.

Allowing the boys to fail in a controlled environment is a good thing.......until they continue to fail at the same blooming thing month after month and year after year. It is then helpful to give them a clue.

Beavah usually beats the CO drum and I agree with him. I know the book version of the unit hierarchy and the all too often reality version. If CO's are deeply involved in the units in his part of the country, my hat is off to them. I have a feeling that most scouter's experience is that the majority of CO's take a mostly hands off approach. When I was the Committee Chair for our Pack, the COR basically rubber stamped any warm body who would volunteer. I had to track down the IH to get his signature on our recharter. They were happy to provide us meeting space, but didn't want to be involved in much of anything else, despite our best efforts to improve our relationship. The first Troop we joined had some issues shortly after we arrived. It was an old guard vs new guard confrontation with the SM's wife who was the treasurer getting angry at a committee meeting and throwing binders at the new Committee Chair with the boys in ear shot. We had a specially called meeting where the COR basically told everyone to make nice and get along and don't bug him again. This guy was a veteran scouter and his wife works for the Council. Our current Troop has a pretty good relationship with the CO since a new minister has come on staff who is pro Scouting. Still, I think they leave the leadership of the Troop up to the Troop and rubber stamp it. Unless someone takes an issue of an unwed mom as SM to the CO, I'm not sure how many CO's would have any idea of what was going on. I think that things like this get passed to the CO when the other leadership in the Troop don't want to handle it. I also think that many CO's don't like getting dragged into this kind of contoversy, but are compelled to have to deal with it. I would have difficulty first of all with any person of this age being the SM and second of all getting pregnant outside of marriage. I myself have done some pretty dumb stuff back in my 20's that I don't really want to be made public knowledge even after I passed 50 last week. I can honestly say that becoming involved in Scouting has really made me much more aware of my image and my example to the boys. While I am a forgiving person and understand how situations like this happen, I think the best thing would be for a person in this postion to quietly step down.

Recently, we were at our local council property to do a shakedown for a backpacking trip we are taking this summer. The place was crawling with Crews using the climbing tower and COPE course. I believe they had other activities going on as well. To my knowledge, this was not a council sponsered event, but something put together by the Crews like OGE mentioned. It appeared that they had a good turn out and were having a blast.

Lisa, I'm reminded of our failed attempt to start a new unit with all 11 year olds a few years back. We adults wanted it to be boy led and wanted the boys to plan their calendar. We'd ask them where they wanted to camp and we'd get deer in the headlight looks back from them. Heck, they had just come from Cubs and were used to making s'mores while the parents set up camp. Our job as adult leaders is to teach and train the boys in leadership.....especially when there are no older boys to serve as examples as in our case. The boys need to take as much control as possible, but the adults need to occasionally adjust the rudder to keep them on track. That is best done thru leading questions and suggestions rather than dictating. In our annual planning, adults are along for the ride. The boys pick and chose the where and what with adults offering suggestions or asking questions to bring a little more thought and clarity. We try to do it in one whack instead of several. We could have the boys do it all themselves and then submit it to the committee only to have them have to rehash things later and resubmit. It is still boy led in our method, but we will bring up things like Webelos Woods and Camporee with a reminder that it is sometimes good to participate in some of the district events too. They decide if they want to do it or not. We simply throw out things to consider that they might not have the experience to think of. One way to approach it is to remind them of younger guys needing advancement opportunities and/or Eagle required merit badges and ask what they can do to try and accommodate their fellow scouts within the annual planning. Another approach we sometimes take is to periodically offer merit badges within the troop. Troop meeting time is NEVER used for this. There are particular Eagle required merit badges that we want to insure the quality of what is taught and learned. An adult in our troop who is registered as an MBC will offer the class and set up a schedule with the boys interested in taking it. They have to attend the sessions and do the work or they are out of luck. You could do something similar for something like Camping or Hiking. The requirements needed outside of summer camp could be done aside from the regular program the boys design.

Just out of curiousity, why is a Venturing crew at a camporee competing against Boy Scout patrols? The district I used to be in used to use camporees like a second Webelos Woods to recruit Webelos and allowed them to compete in the events. It was not age appropriate for the Webelos and messed up any actual competition for the patrols. Fortunately they have discontinued the practice.

Geez, why didn't I just go look before I popped off? http://usscouts.org/venturing/UniformingFAQ.html Q. Can I wear my OA flap on my Venturing uniform (i.e. green shirt)? My crew wants to say I cant, since our female Venturers cant join the OA. A. Regardless of the fact that Venturers cannot be elected into the OA as Venturers (they can be elected in as Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts, or as adult leaders of Boy Scout Troops or Varsity Scout Teams if they meet the requirements for YOUTH membership), the OA flap may be worn on the green Venturing shirt. This is stated in the FAQ list at the National OA website. Personally, I feel that it is inappropriate for a crew to decide not to allow members to wear the flap. BSA Uniforming policies allow it, and thats that. Should a Venturer or Venturing adult choose not to wear the flap, that is their choice. But no one should be barred from wearing it.

I don't own an insignia guide. I come here and get other people's opinions. I would say that logic dictates no. The OA is part of Boy Scouts. Venturing is a different program and the OA flap does not belong on the Venturing uniform. Just my two cents and I'm perfectly willing to let a book thumping uniform policeman prove me right or wrong.

But now I've finished staffing I don't know what to do

Beavah: "We've had a bunch of projects that helped servicemen overseas who weren't part of our "local community"." I understand what you are getting at, but it is not the same thing as traveling to another country to do the project. I'm willing to bet that the Eagle projects that you've seen that benefit servicemen overseas were projects done within the local community who most likely have soldiers or soldiers relatives living in the community.

OGE, If it is any consolation, "We Are the World" did start wafting thru my mind as I read your post.

OGE, Don't go getting all touchy feely on me! I would define "home community" as the community where your home is. I live in Oklahoma City. My expectation when my son does his Eagle project would be that he do it within the greater metropolitan area of OKC and not Tulsa, Dallas or St Louis and certainly not in a foreign country. Our church does several mission trips per year in a number of countries and I wouldn't be opposed to him partcipating in one of them when he is old enough. In fact, I'd welcome it because I remember what an eye opener it was for me to be in a different "world". But for his Eagle project, I personally would like to see him give back to the local community he has been a part of since birth that has given so much to him.

I have absolutely nothing against helping the poor in Mexico. I myself have participated in a mission trip to Venezuela and found the experience very worthwhile. My question is this, shouldn't an Eagle project benefit an organization within the Scout's home community?

Hey, I got to sing the song last night. I went to a troop COH where 8 WB'ers were beaded from two troops and one crew. Five of the folks were from the troop where the COH was held. I got to bead the first of my six Owls that I was Troop Guide for this last fall. I bead another at a Pack graduation this Friday. Two others have completed their ticket, but have not selected a beading date yet. The other two are continuing to work their ticket.

Evidently all of our Wood Badgers have grown TOO old and TOO feeble! Lisabob?

AntelopeDud is overselling Hale a little. He failed to mention that the rock to person ratio is 3,283,597 to 1 or the staircase from the waterfront to the trading post that is named cardiac hill for all the reasons you'd suspect. I think they buried the workers who poured the concrete right where they fell and died. Actually, other than everything being uphill and rocky, it IS an excellent camp with excellent facilities and staff.

Oh good grief fellow Beavers.....wake up!!! I used to be a Beaver, and a Good Old Beaver too, But now I've finished Beavering and I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Beaver no more! So I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

I've lived in Oklahoma for almost 50 years. I've seen summers where we didn't get any rain for over 100 days with temps well over 100. The cracks in the dirt in the outfield were so big that we had legitimate concerns about kids stepping in them and twisting an ankle. Then I've seen summers where we get plenty of rain and the temps never reach 100. I've seen a fall where it rained so much that the fall baseball season ended up getting cancelled because there was no way to make up all of the rain dates unless we went to Christmas. I've seen falls that are so dry that the leaves never change color. I know what I consider normal for Oklahoma based on my 50 years of experience. I know that sometime within each of those years, something abnormal happens. I remember wearing shorts in December and a jacket on the 4th of July. Is global warming all that Al Gore makes it sound like? Probably not. Is it something to be ignored and should we consider raping the Earth our privilege like someone like Rush would say? Probably not. Just because we are seeing things happening that don't fit into our previous experience does not mean that we are circling the drain. Lets remember that back in the 70's we were headed for another ice age according to the scientists. My personal bottom line is that while I don't like big government, we need a Manhattan Project for alternative fuels. Big oil and the auto companies will never work to reduce their own footprint. There is a lot that can be done to move back to a more balanced environment without giving up our technological advancements. Teaching LNT and good outdoor stewardship to scouts is a step in the right direction.

It never comes up and there is evidence on both sides that can be "supported" by science. That being said, teaching LNT and good outdoor stewardship is just part of scouting.

Just for funnsies, I'd like to know what the "invalid" Troop policy is.

My ordeal this last fall was a one nighter that ended after dinner on Saturday night. I noticed that the ordeal coming up is a two nighter though.