SR540Beaver

GW, There is no reason that electees should know they were elected prior to the call out. I've accompanied our chapter election teams to unit elections and the only person the team notifies is the SM. If he chooses to tell them, well shame on him. The call outs in our council is done at the district camporees. As long as a unit chooses to attend, they can participate in the call out and a boy can be surprised at his election.

I'm a Baptist, so I totally understand the "back in the good old days" talk. That being said, I am equally totally lost over those who lament over the callout replacing the tap out. To be fair, I quit scouting as a Webelos back in 1967, so I was never a boy scout. My son and I were both called out a couple of years ago, are both Brotherhood and he is on a ceremonies team now. I have heard a few of the old timers discuss how much better the old days were and how they were bruised up at their tap out. I still have never had it explained to me why they think the old way was better. Anyone?

I've only seen one slide that didn't pass muster and it was a really cool and unique one that the boy was really proud of. It was a ring of rifle shells his military father had made for him after removing the powder. Why did it not pass muster? He was part of our Jamboree troop and we were flying on commercial airlines and touring Washington DC where it would have done nothing but cause trouble.

This comes up from time to time and there is always someone who complains. I've played both and I found them extremely fun....in their own place and time. Where do these activities fit into your scouting program exactly? I like to think that our PLC provides a fun filled calendar each year as evidenced by a roster of 60 boys and anywhere from 15 to 20 new scouts crossing into the trip per year. We must be doing something right. To date, we have never had the need to provide activities like paintball, laser tag or sod surfing to atract them. They are free to do these activities anytime they can talk their parents into taking them. But then, we are the kind of sticks in the mud that do skits at campfires instead of firing up a generator, hanging a sheet and watching a movie on DVD, so what do we know? Bottom line, if BSA says not to do it, don't. Doing so sets a poor example of character.

Fscouter, You are correct that the SPL assigns non-elected POR's. The SM and SPL work together to discuss each candidate and where they would fit best. That being said, the SM is responsible for program and is the last word.....if it ever came to that. For instance, we had a young man last year who wanted to be a Troop Guide. We had 24 new scouts. He was one of four TG's. Shortly after asking for the position and getting it, he decided that he really didn't want to be. Now, he expressed this to his fellow TG's and not to the SM or me who was the ASM for the NSP. He found every excuse in the book to miss campouts and meetings. He basically only attended the first two campouts of the NSP. The SM credited him with two months towards the POR because overall, that was about all he had put into it. Next election cycle, he wanted to be an ASPL or he wasn't going to be around much his according to his dad. The SM told him he had not fulfilled his last POR and he was not going to be stepping into a senior leadership roll until he showed enough interest to be active in whatever roll he did fill. He could have been PL of his old patrol if he wanted. He was very popular within his patrol and was PL for three election cycles running before becoming a TG. Ultimately, he didn't want the responsibility of being PL and took APL. Wise move on the SM's part to not allow him to be an ASPL since he is once again shirking responsibility and only showing up when he feels like it. So, yes this is all done in conjunction with the SPL, but the SM has veto power if it is needed.

I hate to be a pessimist, but is this for real or an elaborate hoax? I've searched high and low thru google and the official BSA website and can find nothing regarding this new uniform. The PDF phamphlet even has prices listed on it. Then again, is this why switchbacks are on sale 2 for 1? Are they getting rid of the inferior stock to make way for the improved pants?

After everything I've said, allow me to tell you what our troop does concerning POR's. We send out a PDF document by email that lists all POR's, the responsibilities and qualifications. We also send an application where a boy lists three POR's he is interested in, an explanation of why is interested in the POR and a pledge that they will fulfill the attendance, uniform and position requirements. There is also a place for their parent to sign agreeing to support their son. The SM has final approval on all POR's. This has always worked well for us. The boy and his parents know what is expected and it allows the SM to credit a boy with only part of the time if he quits doing the job for any reason.

You might be surprised. When asked to judge yourself, you are usually tougher than someone else will be. When my son went to summer camp for the very first time, he and a number of other boys in our troop took the fishing MB. We did not discover until Wed. evening that the counselor was not teaching anything. He basically pointed at the poles and told them to fish if they wanted to and then he played cards with the ones who didn't want to fish. We complained and the boy was replaced. It was too late to c3ch up, but when we got the blue sheets on Sat. morning, every requirement was signed off except for the one to catch a fish. The SM talked to the guys and told them that a scout was trustworthy. He told them he would leave it up to them to determine whether or not they wanted to leave the recod as stated or not. If they chose to keep it, he would honor it as it stood. Each boy said they had not done the requirements and had not earned them and wanted to start over at the beginning at a later date. The most impessive part is that these guys were mostly all new scouts. A Life scout going for Eagle needs to search his heart in this case and determine if he did the right thing or not. He has been a scout long enough to know what the job required and the time committment involved. Hopefully he will consider the spirit of the law over the letter of the law and not accept Eagle on a technicality.

I'm going to split a hair here. Regardless of how long a boy has held a title of a POR, it is up to the SM to determine if the requirement was fulfilled or not and whether or not he will sign off just like tying a knot or hiking a specified distance. Holding the title for 6 months and never showing up or doing the job does NOT entitle the boy to an obligatory sign off. Should an SM counsel a boy prior to that? Probably. Should a Life scout know better and know what is required even if the SM didn't say anything? Probably. For gosh sakes, the boy is a Life scout, not a Tenderfoot. He should be holding hands at this stage, not having his held.

First things first. Is the requirement signed off on in his book? If it is, you've already stated that he has met the requirement. If it isn't signed, don't sign it and tell him why and what is expected of him to meet the requirement. One other note is to tell him that a scout is trustworthy and ask him if he honestly feels he fulfilled the requiement. He might surprise you by admitting he has not. This opens the door to discussing how he can. At the end of the day, he has to be comfortable that the eagle he wears was actually earned.

Pack, If the "patrol" is camping, it is a scouting activity in my book.

In a previous troop I served, we did the immediate recognition thing by giving the boy his rank patch immediately following his BOR and then giving him his card and the mother's pin at the next COH. In the current troop I serve, we have large replicas of each scout rank badge on the front wall of our meeting room. When a boy joins the troop, he is given a standard sized blank of wood to decorate with his name any way he wishes. This piece of wood has two small eye screws and two small hook screws. When he makes rank, he moves his name from one rank badge to the next during a meeting. He then gets his badge and card at the next COH. While I don't mind this method, I prefer the immediate receipt of the badge itself so the boy can get it sewn on his shirt. If we expect a boy to be correctly uniformed, shouldn't that include his current rank? Why make him wait a possible 3 to 4 months? As far as the scout shop policy. I believe they started following that policy in our council in the last couple of years. It has never been my task to pick up insignia. Since my son and I went to the 2005 Jambo, we both have multiple uniforms. We keep two of his shirts up to date, so I have been known to go in and buy additional rank patches when he has earned a new rank. Since I was a Jambo ASM for the scout shop manager's son, he knew me and let me buy the additional patch for the additional uniform with no problem.

The name says it all.

Amen brother! Our Lodge has service weekends where we do work at camps.......aside from Ordeal.

Being an Okie, just let me say that Kansas in the summer isn't much better than Virginia in the summer. I vote for something a wee bit cooler and less humid like Colorado. Besides, it is time that we west of the Mississippi get a price break. The 2005 cost for us was $1900 which is the same price they charged for 2001. It was danged difficult to keep the cost at that price and will be impossible for 2010. I'm guessing $2200 to $2400 this time. Of course, if you cut out the DC touring, the price drops drastically.

I am coming to this discussion late and confess that I have not read every single post, so if I repeat information that has already been given or sound like I'm coming from left field, I apologize. For the last two years I have been the lead ASM for our NSP. We had 24 new scouts one year and 20 another. This year looks to be a little lighter with only 12 or so crossed over so far. Due to my wife beginning to travel for work, I have chosen to step down as the lead ASM and to continue to assist with the program. I feel like the lead ASM should be someone who can commit to the vast majority of outings and weekends might be the only time I get to see my wife. While she is gone during the week, I can still make meetings and such......but I digress. We attempt to have older scouts serve as TG's and we always have 2 TG's per NSP. Last year, we had 4 TG's who were all at least 14 and Life Scouts. We had the added benefit of 3 of the 4 having had done multiple high adventure treks, so they know their scout skills well. This year, we have 3 TG's that are closer to 13 and Star and only 1 has done high adventure. The other two are solid in their skill however. The preference in our troop is for the boys to crossover before the beginning of March as that is the kickoff for our NSP program each year. Since our district chooses to do Camporee in March instead of in the fall, that is often the first campout the NSP goes on. We run a separate program for them while the other patrols are out competing. We go over campsite selection, tent setup, kitchen setup, how to care for the patrol's equipment, etc. We also set up an axe yard and have them earn their totin' chit and firem'n chit that weekend. This is also their first introduction to patrol cooking and KP. The TG's do 95% of the teaching under the supervision of the ASM's who are within listening distance. At meetings, the whole troop gathers for opening and closing. When it is time for the skill presentation, the NSP goes to a different area and works on skills that are new to them, but boring old hat to the older scouts. We often use selected older scouts and Instructors to supplement what the TG's do. The NSP does a patrol meeting just like the other patrols. While each patrol camps in their own area and have their own seating at meetings, they are right theere together and it isn't long before the new guys and old guys start getting to know one another. The new scouts also have never been bashful about letting us know which patrol they want to go to when the time comes. We make use of the new scout program at summer camp and will even try as much as possible to design our program around what is taught at scout camp so the boys are not repeating advancement they have already been signed off on. We attempt to get them as close to First Class in the first year as possible....but much of that depends on them. We usually move them to regular patrols around November. We do work with the packs and do a fair amount of recruiting work. Each May we hold a weekend campout called Pin Fair where Webelos can come camp with us and earn a couple of pins. We encourage them to cross in February to take advantage of our program that starts in March. We are firm believers that a boy who has had time to get acclimated will be more willing to go to summer camp and that a scout who goes to summer camp is more likely to stay and make First Class. We also believe that a boy who makes First Class, is likely to stay in for the long haul. Our NSP is part of the troop and attends all troop functions, COH, Eagle and service projects, etc. and get to see the example of the older scouts. But they have their own program that revolves aroun their needs as new scouts for most of their first year. This approach has worked well for us and we try to refine it each year.

Hey, some chicks dig baggy pants!

There is no time like the present. If you have the time, means and desire, go to Wood Badge. Have a blast.

My 15 year old son has already done his interview for Cub resident camp staff and is waiting for a reply by mail. His mother has hired many people over the years and even had to fire a few. She made him sit in her study and do a job interview with her before he went in for the real thing. Some of the things she told him, make eye contact, say maam and sir, smile, be confident and outgoing and answer questions quickly and clearly. At this age, many boys (Scouts included) are uncomfortable around adults, stare at the ground, shrug their shoulders and mumble. I still have major regrets over a kid I helped pass for a Life Scout BOR who should have never passed, but that is another story. The point we were making to our son is that they are looking for an enthusiastic, responsible, caring, experienced scout who has good people skills. Go in with a good scouting record and let those qualities shine thru and the job is probably yours. Act surly, stare at the floor and mumble and you'll probably only be thanked for showing up.

Allow me to clear up a couple of things. J-dawg is my little Beaver....except he isn't so little anymore. We are a troop that runs around 60 on our roster. We do a better than average job of retaining older boys and Eagles. We had a boy who joined a couple of years ago with a single mom. She wanted to get her daughter involved in a Crew and talked to the SM about starting a Venturing Crew since they were few and far between in our parts. The SM approached the Charter Org about starting the crew and got their approval. The young lady's mom is a troop committee member. She and a male committee member became the Advisors for the new crew. Our SM is on the Crew committee as are a couple of other people from the troop in part because they have kids who joined the Crew. The troop meets weekly at our charter. The crew meets a couple of times a month at the Advisor's home. The crew occasionally attends some of the same outings or events that the troop does like our annual family outing, but by and large have their own calendar of events. Both units are unique and individual with their own leadership and there is no overlap that makes a person have to choose one over the other. What J-dawg is referring to is that when the crew was getting started, the SM didn't want to see the troop suffer as a result. He had no problem with guys from the troop wanting to join the crew. What he didn't want to see happen was all the older guys drop their troop membership in favor of the crew and leave us with boys 13 and under and hurting for older boy leadership. It was an agreement between the troop, crew and charter that a boy had to be absent from the troop as a member for 18 months before coming back strictly as a crew member and not a Boy Scout. This was done to discourage jumping ship. Now, all that being said, it was a non-issue because we didn't have any boys who wanted to drop the troop for the crew. The boys who have joined wanted to be in both and have been members in "good standing" in both. Because we have some of the same adults involved in both units and we are chartered by the same church, we do coordinate our calendars so the kids don't have to choose and can do both if so desired. At this point, J-dawg has no desire to join a second unit as he is heavily involved in leadership at the troop level and in the OA chapter. He simply does not have time for another unit. Therefore, he would like to see a Venture Patrol for the older scouts in the troop. The SM has had a bad experience with a do nothing, elitist Venture Patrol that existed when he became SM years ago and has his reasons why he is not too excited about having another.

Happy Festivus to the rest of us!

Welcome fellow Okie!!!

Ditto! Well said. I get to staff my second course this next fall and I can't wait.

Wow, I guess this is more common than I thought. Our troop has been around for 45 years and has over 140 Eagle Scouts. Now, I don't know how many have turned down an ECOH over all those years. Since I have been with the troop, we currently have one who has not had his ECOH, but he is 16 I beleive and could have it in the future. He has not been back since his BOR.

An Eagle Scout project should not be a Lone Ranger project. Other than self discipline, what kind of leadership and management would this project show? I'd say no too.