SemperParatus

Vicki, Thanks for the tip...but I think I'm going to have pass on that one. 'Hold up thar boys, I got me a lil' chafing goin' on here...anybody seem my vagicil?'

Every unit that I have been involved with has had the expectation that at least one parent must provide some level of volunteer support - be it a leadership position, event assistance, trip planning, administrative, setup, clean-up, transportation, counseling, etc. etc. Most parents DO want to help and be involved in some manner. The real trick is in matching people to tasks/jobs that they enjoy and will feel a sense of commitment and personal responsibility for. Some will no doubt claim they have absolutely no time or talent to offer, consider these folks a challenge and find simple ways to get them involved. If you set the expectations upfront, it becomes the parent's choice as to whether or not to join the pack. Believe me, you will be much happier with a pack of 25 boys and 25 helping adults, then 100 boys with 10 committed adults. During your recruiting spiel, make no apologies for this policy...your pack expects parent involvement because it helps your own son as well as others. Scouts whose parents are involved have more scouting opportunities and will stay in scouts longer (on average). In fact, come right and say that if you want this to be pure baby-sitting dropoff service, then please look for another pack. Those that make a beeline for the door will be few, and not worth your chasing.

Here's an idea... I would get one of those big water cooler bottles. Put some kind of big (2-3 feet) fleshy looking thing in it and fill it up with water. Maybe attach a Squarepants Spongebob face to the big fleshy thing. Keep it hidden until the appropriate time. Bring little Joey up. Retell the story with all of the exubernace you can muster. Explain what the appendix is, what it looks like (about the size of a finger) and what it does (absolutely nothing). Then set it up that the doctors were amazed at what they found in little Joey...at which time the bottle is brought out to everyone's amazement and laughter.

Welcome to the forum. I think your frustration is shared by many fellow parents and scouters. How do you stop cheating? I assume your pinewood had an inspection team at the time the cars are registered. It sounds like that group failed to ensure that all posted rules were followed. Perhaps, they just looked at weight and length, and did not complete a thorough inspection of the wheels, axles, etc. Their failure to catch the 'cheaters' was probably due to a combination of inattentiveness and lack of experience. As you know, this is a good life lesson for your son. Now that he is older, he can know the dirty little secret that the world is full of cheaters and they often get away with it. Yes, it is soooo unfair, but it is reality. The fact that it happens in scouting where there is a sense of personal honor and character building is especially difficult to come to terms with. Nevertheless, it is a part of life and scouting is but a reflection of society. Exposing the cheaters is a very tempting alternative. I am not sure why you have the cars sequestered, but the fact that certain cars have identifiable modifications that are in violation of the rules makes it a real possibility that the race results can be contested (although, in the case of the 3-wheel roller, the counterclaim could be made that you bent the axle while you had control of the cars post-race). However, contesting the race results and exposing the cheaters could do harm to your son's reputation with his friends and fellow scouts, as well as your's as a den leader. I would venture to say that most of the other pack parents and scouts have forgotten about pinewood by now and have moved on. Bringing up these issues will likely reflect on you and your son as 'poor sports', rather than on the cheaters, who probably have learned to claim 'victim status' very well by now. Competition can be such a dirty business. Be glad you are moving on to boy scouts and can put the derby behind you. But, be forewarned, you will likely find folks in the troop that are always looking for ways to bend the rules to their advantage too. It is inescapable, and so you must teach your son that it is never about what others do or don't do, but rather have you been true to yourself.

Eagle74, I sure can understand your dilemma, wish I could offer some advice - other than talking with the scoutmaster of the other troop to try and coordinate somehow. In your situation, I guess I don't see why he would be in your troop. He will be attending troop meetings near his mom's. If he's going to go camping one weekend a month, wouldn't it make more sense for him to do it with the other troop and either the father doesn't have him that weekend, or the father travels to the trip destination to spend the weekend camping with his son. I take it the father is already traveling 2 hours each way to pick him up anyway. Very strange.

Mr. T, It does sound strange. Sorry I am too lazy to look up an answer. His plan to be active in both sounds unrealistic - sooner or later, he will have to make a choice and my guess is that it will be sooner. You might want to sit down with him (and his parents) now to understand how they see this working, especially from an activity and advancement perspective. Somebody is not thinking clearly about this. This could definitely be a situation where two halves do not make a whole, and the scout and both units will be shortchanged by the arrangement. Hopefully, one of the forum members will give you the definitive BSA answer that it can't be done. If not, then my advice would be to help this boy out by asking him to choose one troop only.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Welcome to the forum. You have two choices...you can stick around in the present pack and try and make it a whole lot better (or at a minimum bring it up to a reasonable BSA standard) or you can find another pack in your general area that is already successful, well organized, supported by parents and making it fun for the boys. The first option poses lots of challenges and will require hard work, dedication and countless hours of your time and others...but it will be worth it if you are able to turn it around. The second option is a much easier path (assuming there are other packs in your area) that could be a lot less frustrating for both you and your son, with the added benefit of your son (and you) being able to enjoy cub scouting NOW (engaging pack meetings, PWD, etc.). The choice is yours and your son's. Having been through some start-up and fix-up units and knowing how trying they can be on the leaders, I would personally recommend finding a better, established pack. Best of luck to you and your son!

Welcome. Ask him if he wants to talk about it. If he does not, then respect his privacy and thank him for being a part of the den/pack and wish him the best in his future endeavors. If he does, then ask simple questions and just listen. Don't try to judge the situation or change his mind, and don't tell him that he is making a mistake. If you listen, then he is doing the talking and may just end up talking himself out of it. Or, he may convince himself of his decision to quit. Either way, it is a good thing because the boy will have given greater consideration and thought to his decision. If, during the discussion, it becomes clear that the scout wants to stay in scouting but it is really the parent's decision, then that will be a different conversation with them to identify specific issues and how they could be addressed. While we like to tell ourselves otherwise, scouting is not for everyone.

Yes, its awkward and messy but that's what makes it fun.

Welcome to the forum...and best of luck with the book. Let us know when its finished. I like the way you have titled it for future volumes: Vol. II Marinated Monkey Meat and Other Favorite Scout Recipes. Vol. III Little Dirty Birdy Feet and Other Favorite Scout Recipes Vol. IV - Eyeballs Swimming in a Pool of Blood (I forgot my spoon) and Other Favorite Scout Recipes. Vol. V - Scab Sandwiches with Puss on the Top and Other Favorite Scout Recipes. etc. Mmmmm...makes me hungry just thinking about it.

Gee packsaddle I thought I knew this kid pretty well and tried to convey that in my letter. Why don't you share one of yours so we can all see what you mean by a 'personal' and 'superlative'!

That's too bad. Now that its over and you can't do anything about it...start planning for next year to make sure this doesn't happen again. Here are some ideas: 1. At the upcoming B&G, recognize those scouts and parents that participated...profusely. Certainly, they each deserve a special patch and the dad organizer should get a special award. Maybe, right in the middle of the presentation, someone comes forward with a very special treat (cake, ice cream floats) just for the participants to share. Those that have scouted for food shall be rewarded with food. Everybody that did not attend...soooorrrryyyy. 2. It sounds like the Tiger den leader put in some time and effort, but you don't mention any follow-up with the den leaders. The week before the bags are distributed, and the week before the bags are collected, the organizer should contact each of the den leaders and remind them to contact each of their scouts to remind them when and where to meet. 3. Sometimes, one announcement just doesn't cut it. Multiple communications are necessary to make sure that the message hits home. Follow-up the pack meeting announcement with (i) flyers for each family, (ii) e-mails to the pack members, (iii) article in the pack newsletter, (iv) reminder calls to den leaders. 4. Consider a little competition...either between the dens or against the prior year tonnage, just to add some interest. 5. Kick off the campaign at Pinewood, with a registration fee of one canned food per car. this puts the upcoming SFF drive into folk's minds. 6. Sometimes, the webelos start to lose interest by the fourth year. To counteract, maybe start a patch program with segments for each year of participation. Those earning five year segments get something special. 7. Make sure that the boys get to see the central collection area for your district and maybe help out for some time there as well. It is very impressive as the collections come in and the food mounts up. Plus, its fun lugging the boxes around. 8. I would suspect that your Council may have a promotional video. If so, get it and show it at a fall/winter pack meeting. 9. I have toyed with the idea of a feast or famine event to develop interest and help people understand what it may be like to go hungry. I have never pulled the trigger, because our committee thinks it may upset certain folks. I think it could be neat. 10. It is a shame that your CM did not give this the attention it deserved. In the future, he really needs to show more interest in the event and the outcome. Good luck to you.

I would suggest that the SPL request a conference with the SM in order to share his concerns. He may want to also invite the ASPL and an ASM that may be sympathetic to his plight. As a new SM, he may be showing 'controlling' tendencies because he lacks the necessary training, is trying to get his own arms around the program first, and/or is unfamiliar with the SPL's capabilities (or, it could just be that he is a control freak). The SPL should come to the conference well prepared to present his case, including expectations from his SPL handbook, his goals and plans during his tenure and troop meeting/campout agendas that he is ready to implement over the next couple of months. While it should not be necessary, in this case I think the SPL needs to 'wow' the new SM a little so that he will back off. It also sounds like a good time for a Troop JLT course. Maybe you can even offer to come out of 'retirement' to help the PLC put it together. Many times, the adults that attend JLT (your SM) learn more about the program then the scouts and can certainly see firsthand the capabilities of the junior leadership. If these initiatives seem to go nowhere and the SM still insists on 'running the whole show', then the SPL should consider discussing with the CC. Likewise, other concerned adults in the troop could raise the issue at committee meetings. As the 'retired' SM, I would advise against you becoming too involved. You do not want to appear to undermine the new SM's authority.

OGE, You must have forgotten that the University of Maryland's mens basketball team was the 2002 NCAA Champions. I think it may have been just a slip of the tongue...you obviuosly meant to say that basketball is not played (well) by any schools in Pennsylvania.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Welcome to the forum. I would first suggest a SM conference with the PL. As you know, it is not the PL's decision as to who is in and out of a patrol. You need to make that very clear to him. Likewise, drawing him out as to possible solutions to the problem may help him in his leadership development. Perhaps some role playing is in order with the PL and the other patrol members who are doing the shunning (or better yet at the next PLC meeting for all leaders to benefit), so that they understand what it may feel like to be 'left out' or 'unwanted', and can have some empathy for the scout(s) and perhaps see things from a different perspective. I seem to recall some role playing games/scenarios (not necessarily scouting related) I had found on the internet that worked well in these types of situations. A SM conference with the shunned scouts is also in order to address behavioral issues and try and repair hurt feelings. It may be necessary to hold these on a frequent basis, if necessary, to help diffuse future problems. I would also suggest one or more SA be assigned as patrol advisors to work very closely with the PL (and the whole patrol) over the next few months in order to ensure that intra-patrol issues are appropriately addressed. Problems like this can really make you pull your hair out (oops...sorry). Good luck to you.

Speaking of rabbits... What do you call a row of 500 rabbits hopping backwards?(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

I have DeLorme and it is great. The 3-D mapping is my favorite. I never tried the others.

Our fine state is considering free tuition to public universities for resident Eagle Scouts and Girl Scout Gold Award recipients. Any other states offer this amazing benefit? "Maryland House Bill 296 seeks to grant for Girl Scout Gold Award recipients and Eagle Scouts an exemption from tuition and mandatory fees at public institutions of higher education. To be eligible for this grant, the Girl Scout or Eagle Scout must meet the in-state residency requirement of the particular public institution that she or he wishes to attend." I hope it passes!

In my opinion, this 'speech' deserves a word from the Scoutmaster as well. Consider doing a couple of Scoutmaster Minutes on OA leading up to election day. Framework of message - quotes are OA, rest are my ramblings: "The Order of the Arrow is Scouting's National Honor Society." As an honor society, it is meant to recognize and honor those scouts in our troop that best demonstrate the ideals found in the Scout Promise and Law. Look around...who among you are the most trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrify, brave, clean and reverent. I am sure you see these qualities in the faces of several of your fellow scouts. Those are the very scouts that deserve your consideration for OA recognition. As members of our troop, it is your privilege and responsibility to make sure we send those most qualified for this high honor. The election is not a popularity contest. It is your chance to reward fellow scouts for their commitment and dedication to scouting and our troop. "The purpose of the Order of the Arrow is fourfold: One. To recognize those Scout campers who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives." Notice that the purpose is to recognize scout 'campers'. Who among you do you see on many of our camping trips? Who seems prepared while camping? Who is friendly and helpful? Who has helped you set up a tent in the dark, scrubbed a pot until it glistened, or always seems positive even when there is a tough job to do? Non-campers need not apply. Who do you rarely see on a camping trip? Who is never to be found when there is a job to do? Who grumbles and complains most of the weekend and is a real drag to hang around? "Two. To develop and maintain camping traditions and spirit." Who has spirit here? Who seems to enjoy camping and this whole thing we call scouting? The OA is not an award to be given because you are a certain age or have a certain rank, it is an opportunity for scouts with spirit to continue traditions that are nearly a century old. Who do you think may be up to this challenge? "Three. To promote Scout camping" Again, that four letter word...camp. "Four. To crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others" Those scouts that you elect will be given a tremendous opportunity...the chance to develop a greater understanding of themselves and their service to others. While you can vote for any number of eligible scouts, who do you think really deserves this honor and opportunity. Maybe tone it down a little bit...afterall, we do want somebody elected, right?

How were the wolf badges presented in December? Was it at a pack meeting, a den meeting, handed to them as they walked out the door? If at the pack meeting, was there any ceremony at all? A boy should be recognized for his rank achievement in front of the pack. If that happened in December (albeit not in a super special way) then I think that was their moment in the sun. Although, a second moment does not really hurt, other than to cause 'parent' complaints that little Johnny and Billy got two recognitions.

Do you want a couple of miles of floss to go with that order?

fotoscout, You say "I would think that the family is very knowledgeable, and sensitive to the potential for some type of special treatment. When they are ready, they will come to you, or the SM for guidance." What makes you think that? The majority of parents and scouts that join boy scouts are completely in the dark about what to expect (in spite of Webelos transition efforts, new parent/scout meetings). Why should this family be any different? They probably have no idea what all of the advancement requirements are, let alone how they may impact their son. As Webelos, why should they be very knowledgable of 'special treatment' modifications. The majority of 'challenged' scouts and their parents that I have worked with had absolutely no idea that modifications could be made, until I broached the subject with them. In some cases, they were ready to 'call it quits' because of the advancement issues. I have found that many parents of significantly challenged scouts have far too much on their platter to become experts in the nuances of boy scout advancement issues and the labyrinth of procedures that Districts and Councils require for modifications. They need help with that, and the sooner such issues can be identified and addressed, the better for all concerned. Vicki is being proactive, and that is precisely what is needed in these cases. If you wait for 'a cry for help', it may come way to late and the frustration over advancement issues has taken over, diminishing their scouting experience. Knowledge is the key. Vicki is just making sure that she shares her knowledge of the advancement requirements (and how to obtain modifications) with the scout and his parents so that they are not in the dark and will know that there are alternatives available should certain requirements prove insurmountable given this boy's physical limitations. While I agree that an adult dwarf may be able to do just about anything that a full-sized person can do, an adolescent dwarf may not be in a similar position. Vicki...you go girl!

That's funny, I don't see that many 42 year old scouters "actually participating in the 'service' and 'work' performed by the OA at various Council facilities." I would not be so presumptuous to judge a bunch of 12 year olds that I do not even know.

From OA "Other than defining the length of time needed for a camping activity to be considered a long-term camp*, the National Order of the Arrow Committee leaves the interpretation of the camping requirement to the unit leader. * A "long-term camp" is one consisting of at least six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping. A "short-term camp" is anything less than that." As Unit Leader, I would count your weekend camp scenario as 2 days and 2 nights.

...and I'm sure they will be happy they found you and your son. Get involved, have fun, share the scouting experience with your son. A good pack can make all the difference. I am glad you have found one.