SemperParatus

I agree with Trevorum. I prefer having one person I can trust handle all of the data input. That leaves me in a review stage and takes far less of my time. Judging from your other post, what you are dealing with is a broader control issue between the new SM and the old SM. That needs to get resolved first. As long as the information is being input timely and correctly, and the new SM has access, I don't see where it should be a big problem. Take care of the big issue and this smaller problem will take care of itself.

Thats a shame. I would not do a 'vote-over'. In the future, use a preformatted voting sheet with each of the eligible scouts names next to a checkbox. There is no lines for write-in since only the eligibles (those nominated by the SM)can be voted on. This will insure that the problem does not reoccur and the OA election team will appreciate the organization and ease of counting votes.

I wish I had a good answer for you. I was in a very similar situation myself several years ago. While I know that time will eventually take care of the problem (usually once the old SM's son leaves the troop), it sounds like you need some immediate relief. In crafting a solution, maybe try and figure out why the old SM can't let go. What were his stated reasons for stepping down? Is he trying to protect his own son's and other older boys' advancement? Is he bored in his new diminshed role and is looking for something to do? Is he just a control freak that never wanted to give it up in the first place? Is he jealous of the changes being made or fearful that he will be made to look bad? If you can get to the reason, then the solution is easier to find. For example, if his son is 17 and is about to Eagle, there is a very good chance that he will be gone in the near future and it might be a matter of just waiting. If he is looking for something significant to do, maybe approach him about taking on a massive new project that will occupy his time so that he forgets about being SM - startup of a venture crew or alumni association, planning for an upcoming anniversary celebration or major hi-adventure trip, etc. If he feels that all of his hardwork is now being tossed aside by the new regime and he never got the credit he feels he deserved, honor him with a retirement celebration at the next COH. If he is just a control freak that is not willing to let go, then the SM should take him aside with the CC and politely explain his new role and that you value his experience and input, but he can no longer interfere in a manner that undermines the new SM. In our troop, we have SM Staff meetings once a quarter where all the SM/ASMs get together to hash out programming, planning, advancement and individual concerns. These meetings have really helped to open the lines of communication among our adult leaders and we are able to address problems and personality issues in an open setting that holds us accountable to each other. I would highly recommend this method for bringing the retired SM into the fold as an assistant. Good luck to you.

Sounds like its all about den leadership, therefore I would look to the SM AND CC to help sort out the problems, before going outside the unit to a Commissioner. Its not clear who #3 and #4 are - it does not sound as if they are the registered DLs, but rather just parents or maybe ADLs. In any case, it sounds like it all began with a communication breakdown ("they believed they were taking over, but #1 never intended to leave") which has just escalated over time ("attempted to talk out the problems, and it now appears it only made things worse"). Until everyone (#1, 3, 4, CM, CC) sits down to air out the difficulties in an environment hopefully conducive to construction discussion and open communication this problem will only get worse. Any parties that do not wish to participate in this attempt to open the lines should be told in advance that the consequence will be removal from the program. If this thing is so far gone that it can't be repaired then a separation of the den may be the only solution left, in spite of the smaller size. Good luck to you, #1 (I assume).

The funny thing about aging is that my brain becomes more conservative, my heart becomes more liberal, and my eyes need progressive lenses.

Two of my favorites - the Blanket Tossing Team and Fred the Trained Flea could be appropriate. http://burtleburtle.net/bob/scout/

Why don't you suggest a real debate on the topic. One that is civil and follows pre-established debating rules. http://cas.bethel.edu/dept/comm/npda/ Many times, in the preparation of your debating materials, you come to the realization that the other side has some very pertinent points and the emotions begin to fade. After the debate, instruct the scouts that there are obvious strong points on each side, but as scouts we must not let that interfere with our sense of brotherhood and our adherence to the scout law. Our troop has had debates on less serious matters (electronics in camp, etc.). What I found is that it really opens peoples eyes on the other side. Our scouts really get into the preparation of their points and must consider the points to be raised by others in the process. In so doing, the debated topic loses some of its 'perceived importance' as the process of preparation takes over.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Here's the answer to the Mentor pin (earnable) vs. the Adult awards (nominated). My apologies for getting them mixed up in my mind. http://www.praypub.org/recognitions/viewmedal.asp?MedalID=MM1M3&FaithID=LUT Adult Mentor Program Parents have the option of enrolling in the Adult Mentor Program. In this program, the parent is an active learning participant alongside the child. The parent would have lessons and projects to complete in the Mentor Workbook just like the child, and then both parent and child would work on the student curriculum together. The mentor program is designed to provide the adult with additional opportunities to model his or her Christian faith and to help a young child talk about his or her belief in God. What is the difference between a counselor and a mentor? The counselor is the pastor (or other adult assigned by the pastor). The counselor serves as an instructor who gives assignments to the young people, and it is the young people who do all the work. Mentors are parents who have chosen to work alongside their children on the God and Country curriculum. Mentors are active learning participants (students) with lessons to complete in their own workbooks just like their children. Both mentors and children work under the supervision of the pastor or counselor. What is the difference between the mentor pin and an adult recognition award? The mentor pin may be worn by parents who have successfully completed the Adult Mentor Program. This is a program for parents to work on while they lead their children through the God and Country Series. There is an adult workbook that must be completed. The Adult Recognition Awards are by nomination only (they are not work/study programs like the youth awards). These are honors given to worthy adults for their outstanding service to youth both through their church and one of the national youth agencies. Recipients of these awards are unaware that they are being nominated: an outside party must nominate them to receive an award by submitting the required application, letters of recommendation and resume. (This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

I am no longer so sure about the 'earnability' of the adult award for mentoring. From the PRAY website - "What are the Adult Awards? Can adults earn religious recognitions just like the children? The Adult Recognition Awards are by nomination only (they are not work/study programs like the youth awards). These are honors given to worthy adults for their outstanding service to youth both through their church and one of the national youth agencies. Recipients of these awards are unaware that they are being nominated: an outside party must nominate them to receive an award by submitting the required application, letters of recommendation and resume. For information on specific eligibility requirements, the Adult Award Brochures (with nomination forms) are listed in the "Resources" tab." Here is the nominated adult award listing (excludes the awards through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting) http://www.praypub.org/main_frameset.htm Although, I seem to recall from a long time ago that there was an application in the back of the mentor packet for some of the protestant awards (e.g., God & Country) that you could send in. Maybe that has changed, or maybe I am just getting old and forgetful. In either case, I defer to FatherJim. (This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

No - here it is: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/service.htm

I would do whatever EagleInKy just said (of course, I have no idea what he just said...although it sounds really good). He is, afterall, a professional.

jd, Isn't the adult religious mentor award (square knot) already earnable (not nominatable) by serving as a religious emblems mentor?

jd, You are on a roll tonight. You know it comes from the insignia guide. But, it does raise an interesting question. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that any 'official' scout uniform from the past could be worn today. Now, I am pretty certain that when cubs was first introduced they all wore the yellow neckerchiefs. It wasn't until 1967 that the Webelo neckerchief was born and the blue bear neckerchief came into being in 1984. So, maybe it is possible to just wear the old 'yellow' style neckerchief, if you can find them. Digging back into the history, it may even be discovered that in the very earliest years of cubbing that the yellow neckerchief was basically a home-made thing anyway. Hmmmm?

I wish I had an answer to quell your anguish. I know this is one of your pet peeves. Maybe to tell them apart when you are on a fieldtrip? ...Nah. Maybe to give them a sense of accomplishment over and above the rank badge? ...Nah. Maybe so the BSA can take poor, unsuspecting, new cub parents to the cleaners? ...Yeah, sounds about right. Would it be that wrong for a pack to design and use their own pack neckerchief and hat (like a boy scout troop) that could be worn throughout the cub years. I know, not the 'official' uniform, but besides that, why not?

Hello...Grasshopper. Defensive martial arts are not an approved activity until boy scouts. Therefore, not appropriate for a cub scout daycamp activity. Stick with demonstration only. See G2SS chart link below: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf

GREAT!!!! Sounds like you are covering most of your bases already. Now, its just a matter of turning your vision into reality.

Here you go. http://www.troop168.net/forms/patrolboxa.htm

TundraHawk, It is good to hear from you again, especially about the idea of starting a new unit. I have been involved in a couple of start-up situations, most recently with a boy scout troop that went from zero to over 50 scouts in a three year period. Lessons learned: 1. It is very hard work. In fact, it can consume your life for several months or longer. 2. Find a group of similarly minded, committed people that can work well together. Together, you can share the load and offer each other the support and encouragement needed during the difficult start-up period. 3. The first order of business is to hook up with a Charter Organization that you feel you can work with and may be able to offer support (both monetarily and resource-wise) and to recruit the adult leaders - the committee chair, cubmaster, treasurer, advancement chair, den leaders and assistants. Getting the adults, will translate into the initial corp of scouts that can be built upon. 4. Starting fresh, its a perfect opportunity to get everyone trained at the same time. Attend as a group and meet afterwards to download and discuss the program, and how as a group, you would like to see your pack develop. 5. Money can be a problem at the outset. Perhaps your charter org can help with some seed money, or the parent 'pioneers' may have to loan or contribute some funds. There is nothing wrong with going as cheap as possible for as long as you can - make your own pack/den flags, build a PWD track out of wood, judge with the eye rather than a timer, schedule trips that are free. 6. Talk to your DE and Unit Commissioner often, to make sure you are doing the things you need to do. They can especially help you with recruiting ideas - they probably won't actually recruit for you but can give you good ideas. Perhaps plan for an assembly at the local school, put on a presentation at a local church, handout flyers at 'kid' places, spread the word and make your program exciting and you will be surprised at how quickly you grow. Big Note - don't judge your pack's success by the quantity served, but rather the quality of those who you do serve. Doing this, the numbers will take care of themselves. 7. Establish an exciting calendar of events for the coming year and publicize it to potential recruits. 8. That first pack meeting (and all thereafter) - make it special and superfun for the scouts so that they want to come back again and again. Coordinate themes with the dens so that they can be tieing into the pack event (use Program Helps found in Scouting Magazine). A coordinated program works better and helps to put all the leaders on the same page - rather than running around doing their own thing. 9. Put your hands on as many scouting resources as you can - Cub Scout Big Book of Fun, Group Meeting Sparklers, etc. Look for ideas on the web (e.g., Baloo's Bugle)Your local scout shop will be a great place to visit and load up on informative literature. And visit this forum often - the experience of the forum members here is unbelievable. 10. Most of all have fun and make it fun for the boys (and the adults). There is a lot more and I am sure you will hear a lot of better ideas and encouragement from the other forum members. I wish you great success in this endeavor. Believe me, it is can be challenging but very satisfying.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

I have a 'pedigreed' vial that I would be happy to send to you along with the listing of camps. You will need to pm me your address. Welcome to the forum.

I don't generally brag about my kids, but hey why not? Daughter - 16, 4.0 student, starting her Girl Scout Gold Award project, received the Congressional Silver Award now working on Gold Award, talented dancer, beautiful (takes after her mom), has incredible focus and drive. Son - 15, 4.0 student, in the middle of his Eagle project, received Congressional Bronze Award now working on Silver Award, talented athlete, has an amazing sense of humor. Dog - 11, lays around the house and does very little (takes after her dad).

Here is a CD-ROM for sale with 500 Rockwell prints - don't know how many scouting pix it includes. Maybe a call to them would help. http://www.chicagotogo.org/norroccdrom.html http://www.infotoday.com/it/oct98/news14.htm The Norman Rockwell Museum can provide digital images too. http://www.nrm.org/services/photo/ Please try the images from the Knapp site that was on my previous post - I have done large projection shows with these pix and clarity was pretty good. Plus they are free. Good luck.

I am glad you joined too. Jump right in and share your knowledge and experience (and opinions). Nice to meet you over the keyboard. Welcome.

A 'scholarship' that provides money to a scout to enable him to attend a week-long summer camp experience. Most councils have some variety of financial assistance that can be applied for, for this purpose. Troops/Packs may likewise establish a campership fund for its own unit members.

Here are two sites. There are some others on the web. Not sure about the resolution you need. http://www.rogerknapp.com/knap/stpicts.htm http://home.pcmagic.net/ogdenj/scout/pages/rockwell.htm (This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Scouting needs more parents like you. Have you ever considered cloning yourself? Best of luck and welcome to the forum.