SeattlePioneer

Another problem with letting a family decide to have a heavily produced Eagle COH---- It puts pressure on the troop to repeat that for every other Eagle in the future when the interest in supporting such an event may not be there. A Court of Honor is first and foremost a TROOP program. It is carried out for the purposes of Scouting and the troop, which happens to include the Scout who is receiving an advancement award. If your troop has an active advqancement committee and families who anticipate having an Eagle participate in putting on Eagle ceremonies for everyone for a year or so then perhaps you can support more elaborate ceremonies. But I'd be opposed to letting a family create an elaborate program for just their Scout. Setting up the Scoutmaster to replicate elaborate ceremonies for later Scouts when the resources aren't there would be the likely consequence.

> Yep. That's another problem ----- the wrong person may volunteer. The smart move is to identify the BEST PERSON to do a task, and ask them. If they don't agree, ask the next best person. It seems like a no brainer that you want the best person to fill a position, but if you ask for volunteers that isn't likely to happen. There are lots of little peculiarities like that that help make a quality Cub program if you understand them!

Personally, I wouldn't put off disciplining the terror until next year. Just as you are mamking plans for next year, so are others. Deciding to drop out of Cub Scouts at the beginning of the year is a natural decision. Send the boy home the first time he misbehaves during the last two den meetings. It puts everyone on notice that that bad behavior will not be accepted. The Cub Scout promise is more than just words. It descibes the necessary preconditions for having a functioning group. "To obey the law of the pack" is NECESSARY to being a Cub Scout. If a boy can't do it, he can't responsibly be a part of the pack.

> Boy leadership on religion is fine. Having Scouts decide on the content of their Scouts Own would be a good example. But there is a suitable place for leadership and explanation by Scouters and adults just as there is in many other places in Scouting, in my opinion. Such things could be done well or poorly. The job of the Scoutmaster would be to see that such things are done well. I gave the example earlier of a Jewish parent who on occasion led a prayer opening a Court of Honor in Hebrew and then English, something he did with great dignity. Frankly, I've never seen anything similar which did more to command the respect of those who heard it. If you've got someone with a significant talent, I'm going tio want to use him in my program, whether that a duty to God or orienteering. Talent is talent. But again, that's my bias and approach. If others wish to follow other practices they are welcome to do so. Seattle Pioneer

I'm with TwoCubDad. A Court of Honor is a Court of Honor. It's there to transact the business of the troop. Schedule whatever you need to in a tasteful way. Let's see now, when will that Friends of Scouting solicitation fit in?

The Burger King with the play equipment sounds terrific to me! Ideally you'd be in view of the play equipment so at least one parent can step in to keep order if need be. There's a strategy for getting new parents started as leaders. As one of my methods, I ask parents to fill out a simple form in which they check off the kinds of things they are either GOOD at doing or things they would LIKE to do to help the den and pack. They fill this out along with the youth application. I emphasize that by filling it out they aren't agreeing to do anything ---- it's just a tool to help pack leaders get to know parents. That works pretty well. Usually it can be weeks or months before pack leaders get to know new parents well enough to figure out what they can do to help the pack. With this method, the parents tell you right up front. Ideally within aq week you have someone call the new parent to welcome them to the pack, answer any questions they have and to ask them to help with some task that needs to be done, usually a simple one. The boys I recruit this spring will form a temporary Bobcat Den which I will lead to move those boys rapidly through the Bobcat requirements and insure that the boys and families have a series of quality Cub Scout experiences. Our recruiting night May 9th will have boys and parents making stomp bottle rockets. While boys are launching their rockets and winning endorsement stickers for their Rocket Pilot License, we will be signing up families. At the end of the recruiting night boys have learned what "doing your best" means through the rocket launch, and they are elgible to get that Bobcat requirement signed off. The following week we work on additional Bobcat requirement and prepare for a Bobcat hike that weekend, which includes a hotdog roast. This is the introduction for boys and families for what a quality Cub Scout outing should look like and feel like. We have another couple of Bobcat meetings before our June overnight camp and crossover, at which point all boys form their new dens. The new parents will be expected to be leaders at the overnight camp, presenting various activities from crafts to cooking and such. Any new parent who doesn't help at the campout is at the top of the list to help with every additional activity of the pack until they help. And I have a Scoutparent Coordinator whose job it is to welcome new parents to the pack and sign up parents for tasks that need to be done. It's fine if a parent tells the Scoutparent Coordinator they are too busy to help with a particular activity, but the Coordintaor will just be calling back in a week or two with the next task, the next task or the next task, until they agree to help. Or at least that's the way I'm hoping it will work ---- we just added that position for the new year. Our ScoutParent co-ordinator did just sign up our newest parent to be our Day Camp Coordinator.

The unfortunate fact is that one problem kid of the kind you describe can drive a dozen people out of a den or pack or destroy the unit. The smart move is to suspend the kid for a couple of weeks or a month each time he displays this bad behavior. When he comes back he gets no slack cut --- the first bad behavior and he is gone again. If you lose the Webelos grandmother, that's unfortunate but another fact of life. If the boy really likes Scouting, that provide the maximum incentive for him to exercise self control --- the thing he needs most in his life. That's doing the boy a favor, and the pack too. Seattle Pioneer

When I got involved in my pack 2 1/2 years ago there was one Cub Scout in it. I call our committee the "Parent Committee" any parent is welcome and encouraged to attend. My rule has been that committee meetings last no more than an hour. I think that encourages parents to attend. Secondly, I hold meetings at a convenient Starbucks coffeeshop. The advantages are that it's always available, no reservations are required, and parents who want to treat themselves can do so, and those whop don't don't. We always hold parent meetings on the last Monday of the month. That has worked well. I've never had a meeting flop. I have a new committee chair who plans to make changes in that model, but it's her meeting and she is entitled to do so. REGULARITY and PREDICTABILITY are important. People can get in the habit of attending parent meetings if they are useful and fun for adults. I also experimented with giving 20-30 minutes time at parent meetings to Den Leaders to plan their activities with parents, but that didn't seem to be used much by Den Leaders ---I don't know why. I still think it's a keen idea.

Hello Ann Laurel, Sounds like you have a Pack Of Artful Dodgers! Unfortunately, they are probably highly skilled at that art by this time. Your real hope is among the new parents you recruit this spring. New parents usually have the greatest enthusiasm for the program they have chosen to join, they expect that their help will be needed (because you TELL them that), and they haven't developed the artful dodging skills of your current parents. Just as an example, I had a Bear Cub join a couple of weeks ago. He attended our parent meeting at the end of the month because I asked him to. We needed a parent to be our daycamp co-ordinator and help with registration and such, which involves getting the required number of adult volunteers to assist with the program. He agreed to take on that job when he was ask to do so by our ScoutParent Co-Ordinator and myself as Cubmaster. He attended our planning meeting for the daycamp tonight and will be taking an oar in planning our "Scouts At Sea" themed day camp. He will be at our Daycamp Kickoff at Roundtable next week for pack Daycamp Coordinators. And he'll be helping to promote and organize our day camp signup at out pack meeting April 18th. He hasn't attended day camp, so I'm arranging for some Order of the Arrow Boy Scouts to come to our pack meeting to help promote this activity. This isn't really unusual if you ask people new to your program to help with something within the first couple of weeks after they join.

Hello Laurel, Do you have plans for a pack recruiting night this spring? Are you satisfied with your pack plans for spring and summer activities? Are your den leaders, committee chair and pack committee doing their jobs?

Hello BadenP, Well, opinions differ, which is fine. The approach I described has worked well for me. In particular, when I'm recruiting new families it's not unusual for parents to ask about the role of religion in the Scout unit they may join. Having a simple and concise reply that people can understand and appreciate is helpful at that moment. I can tell parents: 1. We encourage Scouts to respect the religious traditions of their families and 2. We encourage Scout to respect the religious traditions of other families as well. It may well be that BadenP has other religious traditions he promotes in his units. Under BSA policies we are both entitled to our views and methods. And of course if people are happy keeping their religious beliefs to themselves, that's perfectly fine with me. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Sorry BadenP, I disagree. Having an opportunity to learn about the religious traditions of others is a good way to deepen people understanding of religious faith. To me "duty to God" in Scouting means 1) A respect for the religious traditions of your family 2) A respect for the religious traditions of other people. By giving families the opportunity to explain their own religious traditions if they wish to do so, both of those traditions are honored. I've also found that if families have an opportunity to explain their religious traditions to others, they usually aren't as sensitive about prayers and such that are a part of the unit program. I've had good experience with this as a method. I've never had the negative experience with it that BadenP apparently thinks is inevitable. I also like Qwasze' methods:

I sent the link off to the CM and CC for the Cub Pack for which I'm Commissioner. They have a close relationship with the elementary school where they meet.

> Having a discussion with a parent is fine, but not if it's a 90 minute discussion that is used to discourage parents from attending an OA function. In my opinion, if a parent wants to attend they should be given the date, time and place as an opener. I can't see any legitimate reason to discourage parents from attending at all.

Hello Old Grey Eagle, Boys are certainly one "customer" of Scouting, but only one in my opinion. Just for openers, if you think you can ignore volunteers as your model does, I think it's incomplete. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that there are a variety of customers in Scouting each of which must be kept satis fied and kept working together harmoniously, as I suggested in my earlier post. That describes reality better in my opinion.

Hello 1 hour, Personally I wouldn't bother with all the formal procedure you suggest. A Den Leader and Cubmaster who aren't getting along together should probably sit down with the Committee Chair and see if they can sort things out. If they can't the Committee Chair might recommend who should be fired to the COR. That's the way I'd handle it.

Sorry, but having a 90 minute conversation to talk a parent out of observing the OA ceremony flatly contradicts the Scout policy of no secret ceremonies in my opinion. If a parent wants to attend, they are entitled to do so ----period. NO Arguments. That doesn't mean other siblings or relatives can attend, and it's entirely reasonable to have rules to avoid having the ceremony disrupted. Again, I am AMAZED and APPALLED to see Scouters placing 'way too much importance on a ceremony in this thread. Frankly, if people can't keep a sense of proportion about such things they shouldn't be an OA leader in my opinion. It makes me wonder about what other bad policies are being followed.

There is no single customer for a council. There are a variety of people, interest groups, sources of funding, organizations and such which need to find ways to work harmoniously to carry out the varying purposes of Scouting. The most amazing thing to me is that so many volunteers manage to work together to carry out the program with relatively little friction.

Personally I don't care to water down reloigious practices to the point where they become meaningless. My bias was to encourage Scouts and/or parents to explain or give examples of their own religious practices and an explanation of what they meant. Anyone in the troop would be welcome to make a statement of their faith in a way that was intended to educate others in the troop. The best example of that was a parent who was the Cantor (if I'm recalling correctly) in his synagogue, and who sometimes gave an opening prayer at a Cour Of Honor first in Hebrew and then in English. As an added treat he would sound his Shofar (rams horn), always fun to hear! Once anyone with a relatively exotic or unusual religious background has had an opportunity to explain their religious tradition, it pretty much defuses the issue after that. For Scout Sunday, we invite any Scout family interested to attend the Chartered Organization"s Sunday Service and anyone who does gets recognized later. But anyone else is equally welcome to schedule Scout Sunday at their own place of worship, invite anyone interested to attend and be recognized as well.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Personally my aim is to use the JTE metrics as a tool in managing the pack this year, and our Committee Chair is on board with that idea. A good approach to this is: 1. Review the different JTE requirements 2 Evaluate how your unit does on the JTE based on LAST years performance. 3. Decide which metrics you want to concentrate on improving. 4. Review your JTE performance at unit committee meetings from time to time and decide where you need more improvement.

Heaven forbid that atheist clubs should be banned.

I recall a situation where I overreacted as Scoutmaster, nearly thirty years ago. I was driving a car full of Boy Scouts home from a Scout Camp. One of the best and most engaging Scouts in the troop said he was going to engage in some kind of bad behavior as a way of distracting me as the driver (can't remember the details now). I pulled over and admonished him about that. I didn't holler and shout, but I overreacted to what might have been a joke. I might have said he needed to promise not to do that. The Scout was offended by that, and said he didn't want to drive with me, that he'd call his parents to come pick him up. Well, you can't really argue with someone who wants out. I drove him to a place with a phone. I apologized for overreacting to his provocation. I think he called his mother but I wound up driving him home, about forty miles from where we were camping. Sometimes people make poor judgments. I can tend to overeact in conflict situations, so I try to be careful about that especially in Scouting. Just as a general rule, I'd be cautious when you are reacting emotionally to some deeply held value ("stealing" or whatever) Reacting emotionally can lead you into making mistakes and poor judgments. The mother of that Scout looked me up on the internet a few months ago. Her son recently accepted a faculty position at an Ivy League university. I was glad to hear that --- he was a terrific kid. As I think about that now, a good way of handling that would have been to tell the Scouts that the kind of torture they must not inflict on me was singing the "Greasy, grimy, gopher guts" song, a favorite of this Scout. I no doubt would have been harmlessly serenaded for the rest of the trip home. However, it took me thirty years to come up with this solution!

> Secularists have triumphed by excising religion and prayer from government institutions such as schools. Well, fine. But they aren't content with that. They often have an agenda of turning pretty much anything using or occupying the public square into a religion free zone ---- and that includes Scouting. That needs to be resisted, in my view. Government has pervasive power and prestige in society. Secularists would like to establish a societal norm of pretty much everyplace except the home and church being a religion free zone. Fortuantely the Congress and even the Supreme Court has placed roadblocks in that political and legal agenda. After all, the "free exercise" of religion is part of the 1st amendment too.

Some name brand manufacturers would probaboly supply you with parts --- perhaps at no charge. Otherwise if you belong to a Troop they may have spare backpacks you could salvage for parts. Or look for a used backpack at a thrift shop. I did about 3,ooo miles of backpacking with my Kelty backpack over the years ---- very little wear, really. What parts do you need and who is the manufacturer?

I hope you had a good experience as the Bear Den Leader. The Webelos program is significantly different. Are you planning to continue as Webelos Den Leader? How are your camping and outdoor skills?