SeattlePioneer

As district membership chair, I've done many school visits to invite K-4th grade boys to join Cub Scouts in the spring. Often the younger boys don't have much of an image of Cub Scouts, which can be kind of an abstract idea to which they can find it hard to relate. Having a recruiting night activity that has instant appeal is what's needed, and last night my experience is that a stomp rocket lauch can't be beat in attracting new boys and families. Stomp rockets can be made by loosely rolling up a sheet of paper around a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe. Staple the top of the rocket closed, and cut three triangular pieces for stabilizing tail fins from a 3x5 card and scotch tape those to the rocket. The launchers are two pieces of 1/2" pvc pipe glued into a 90 degree elbow, to which a two liter soda pop bottle is fitted at one end and the rocket slid onto the other piece of pipe. Stomp on the soda pop bottle and the rocket will go 50-60 feet or so. Here's a u tube video of on version of this: Boys at school were invited to a pack recruiting night. We had an example of the rocket the boys would build and the launcher, and they could understand how stomping on the bottle would launch the rocket. The appeal was "How would you like to make a rocket TONIGHT and launch it to see whose rocket will go the farthest/highest?" Or, "Who thinks THEIR rocket would go the farthest/highest?" Boys received a sticker with the date, time and place for the recruiting night and an information phone number and such. Last night we had about 35 new boys turn out for the rocket launch. Boys and parents worked together to build a rocket and fill out an award certificate for doing the rocket launch. We moved outside and pack parents supervised the rocket launch using four rocket launchers (six would have been better) each succesful rocket launch earned a boy a sticker to add to their certificate. After parents had a chance to observe a few launches,they were invited to come back to the meeting room and find out about joining Cub Scouts. This was the most effective method I have yet seen to draw new families to a Cub Scout recruiting night. It combines a powerful appeal to boys with a fun family project that can be done in about ten minutes, and a fun competition and award the boys win by launching their rocket several times.

Congratulations on completing your ticket! (I don't have the heart to tell him he will be working on it for the remainder of his life, or at least his days in Scouting!) W1-609-85

Hello Gary Miller,

Hello Brent Allen, Thanks for your reply. I wasn't being critical of your troop, I was trying to find out more about how it worked. You've managed to provide incentives to encourage your Scouts to set a high standard of performance for themselves, and I respect that. My bias was to give Scouts the freedom to decide for themselves what their standards would be. They might set them high in some areas and not find some other things worth much effort. Frankly, I didn't see it as my job to have a vision of high standards to which I would work to get Scouts to conform. Instead, they had to face the consequences of their own decisions and actions on camping trips, camporee and other activities. I mentioned that I have some issues with Green Bar Bill and his idea of adopting a goal of being the best troop in the council. That isn't an objective set for Boy Scout troops that I'm aware of. Councils don't have such a competition. I suggest there is a reason for that and that the reason is that there are a variety of ways to have a quality Scout program, and that none of them are objectively the "best" way to run a troop program. As I look through the "Journey to Excellence" metrics, I see a framework for evaluating whether a unit has a quality program, but it's not about being the "best" troop in the council. It sounds like you can inspire your Scouts to adopt high standards of performance for themselves, and I respect that. But if that was our standard for Scoutmasters, we would have few of them. A quality Scout program doesn't require that kind of goal or leadership, in my opinion. I suggest that it's perfectly legitimate to give Scouts the opportunity to decide for themselves what their standards will be in the light of the Scout Oath and Law and other ideals of Scouting. I suggest that I haven't been "ragging" on you or ridiculing your program. I respect your program the way you describe it. I simply think that quality Boy Scout programs can be run in a variety of ways. I don't think you believe that's the case. You are a disciple of Green Bar Bill and you believe he has the right and perhaps the only right answer. Well, I think you are wrong, but you are entitled to your particular methods of Scouting, and I wish you well with them.

Hello Two Cub, I liked the idea of giving out rewards for being in a full uniform ---socks included. Your post made me dive into my drawers to see if I could lay my hand on a pair of Scout socks. I know I saw at least one just a couple of days ago, but I couldn't find any when I looked. I just know that eventually I'll find them, and one will be ankle high and the other will be knee high! Would I get an ice cream for that? I'm just hopelessly slack I'm afraid!

I'll agree that OA Indian dancing probably has some image problems. But that's a byproduct of the fact that not many realize that Indian dancing is still a vital and dynamic cultural force among at least some Indian tribes. When I attended the 1987 Rosebud, SD Powow of the Sieux, I was impressed by a cultural phenomena I had never encountered before. I suppose the OA has a tough time trying to replicate the impact of hundreds of Indians dancing for thousands of their fellows. That's not surprising. It would be nifty if more OA chapters had a chance to experience that kind of dancing and participate in the dancing contests themselves, if they were made welcome to do so by powwow organizers. In Hawaii, variations on the hula are pretty widely practiced by dance teams of all different ethnicities. It might be neat if OA dance teams were welcomed by Indian tribes as those practicing a fine art. Here's a u-tube video that gives something of the flavor of the Rosebud Powwow. Keep an eye out for American flag honor guards that are dancing while "marching" with the American flag: Imagine OA dance teams from around the country being invited to give a mass performance at the Rosebud Powwow someday! Recognition like that would lend real legitimacy to OA dance traditions, I would suppose.

A few more years and a Scouter's lifetime career might be filled just by taking mandatory training....

> Heh, heh! Just checking! Are you checking for socks or SCOUT SOCKS!? You are a little vague on that point... Your further descriptions of your troop program lend support to the idea that you aren't imposing adult leadership on your troop. That's one way of getting "results," so I hope you don't hold a measure of scepticism about that against me ---after all, I only know what you tell me about your program. I am not too impressed by your drawing Green Bar Bill like a pistol. I get my Scouting methods margely from BSA training, and your description of Green Bar Bill's methods are somewhat different than BSA training. For example, you cite GBB setting a standard of being the best troop in the council. But there is no competition or recognition for such an honor. Even on a district level the only competition of that kind is at Camporee --- and that's for the best patrol, not the best troop, in most cases. Why do you suppose that's the case?

> Why? And frankly, I found your reply to that question vague. Do you have sock inspections? If not, why not?

> Yes, a Scoutmaster who has decided that it is HIS goal to have the BEST troop in the council, with the MOST Eagles, the BEST uniforms and so on is going to have a rigorous program of adult leadership to set and carry out those goals. If you are letting the Scouts decide their own goals and priorities, they will probably lack the skills and experience to be the BEST in the council on everything, or perhaps on anything. So which is the most important --- being the BEST in the Council or giving your Scouts the opportunity to really lead their patrols and troop? Sounds like a very revealing comment, Brent Allen.

I think you are right. It takes some time for things to sort themselves out. When they start living together they will start getting the point. I'd say you acted reasonably and did your best!

I guess I was a "Sash and Dash" adult leader when I did the OA Ordeal circa 1985. I was a Scoutmaster and continued to keep my nose to the grindstone at that position. Frankly, I don't recall being solicited for OA activities or meetings, but my memory may be bad, and I probably wouldn't have been able to find the time in any case. I haven't renewed my membership despite a fine effort to revive the OA chapter at my district. I'm still too busy to find time devote to OA activities. Frankly, I'm not very happy to see the "sash and dash" term used as a way of dispraraging those entering OA. I was invited and I felt an obligation to set a good example for my Scouts by attending the OA Ordeal. If I had been informed that I was expected to provide additional services before accepting the invitation, I probably would have politely turned it down. Scoutwers who wear Woodbadge beads are walking advertizements for the Wood Badge Program. People who wear the OA sash are walking advertizements for OA. If you don't want that kind of advertizing, get rid of the advertizement. If you do want it, don't complain about getting it. Pretty much all volunteer organizations can always use more free labor. It's really bad manners to complain that people don't contribute more time than they do, in my opinion. The smart move is to thank people for every minute of time they contribute, because people who feel appreciated will probably do more. Those who hear complaints will probably do less or drop out of the group. Frankly, hearing complaints about "sash and dash" OA members makes it LESS likely that I would reactivate my membership, something I have considered doing. Why should I expose myself to snarky comments when they can be avoided by keeping my money in my pocket?

I had occasion to attend the Powow of the Sieux Indian tribe held on the Rosebud Indian reservation in 1987. Much of that is Indian dancing. I would be interested to see what kind of reception an OA dance team might get at that kind of gathering. It would be an education for OA dance teams as well!

Congratulations on a fine program, Navigator!

I've been reading a lot here about "half uniforming," or uniforming from "the waist up,"and Brent Allen objects to that as being hopelessly slack when one can just choose to adopt full uniforming as a standard. But I what about units that are only fully uniformed from the ankles up? Wouldn't they be slack, too? I would be interested to know if Brent's Troop is fully uniformed or just from the ankles up! Are official Scout socks as much a part of the uniforming standard as the uniform blouse?

> Scoutfish, wow --- that's a wickedly funny comment!

SR540 Of course Scout units are always going to be losing our most experienced boys! My district has put heart and sould into restarting the OA chapter, with moderately good results. But I doubt if he could step away from it without it collapsing. OA chapters need to be able to build their own adult leadership cadre, not just Scouts. Have you been able to do that with your program, and if so what are your methods? I was tapped out by OA as a Scoutmaster circa 1983. I attended the Ordeal but never attended other OA activities. I don't recall being invited to such activities, and in any case I was too busy with my Scout Troop. I imagine that's all too common. And of course it's no different than finding volunteers for other district activities, although OA does have something of a pipeline to adults being selected for membership. Is that resource used effectively?

There are people who are brilliant leaders and who can create a great program where most others cannot. Perhaps Brent Allen is one of those people. I know I'm not one of those people. I have to do my best with what I have. I observe the methods of the most succesful units and try to pass those on to other units. Last spring I sat in on the recruiting night for one of those succesful packs. They did a Pinewood Derby race as an effective method to attract new boys and parents to their recruiting night. As district membership chair, I'm all too aware at how poorly many Cub Pack prepare for a recruiting night. I used the Pinewood Derby race as a model for my own pack's recruiting night last fall, and we actually had a CROWD attending. But there were problems in supervising the crowd and $4 a person for Pinewood Derby cars was expensive. And quite a few adults came with their son for the PWD race and didn't even sit in on our Cub Scout signup pitch. This fall we did a raingutter regatta with simple boats rather than the kits. That was good, and economical. Our March Roundtable was a model recruiting night to show pack leaders how they can make a Cub Scout Rocket launch their recruiting night activity using compressed air launched rockets the boys build from a sheet of paper and lauch by stomping on a soda pop bottle. I'll be doing a recruiting night March 29th for a pack adopting that activity. I expect they will improve their recruiting night results. However, just attracting more boys isn't necessarily the answer. The most succesful Troop recruiting night I ever held had a video game theme, and we had 15 or so new boys show up to set up and play video games. However, none of them came back to do our Boy Scout program, and we weren't interested in being a video game troop.

If you have a significant percentage of your student population that can't meet reasonable standards for education, that corruptes the whole education process. Those children act out and prevent others from getting an education. The education system must adapt to warehouse and appeal to such children, corrupting academic standards. By tolerating such behavior, you enable it. It's not a choice of keeping them in school or keeping them in prison. Kicking such children out places the burden of adapting to standards on the children and families. A child who is kicked out should probably have conditions explained to him and their parents on the terms on which he will be readmitted. When failure and expulsion is a reality, you are going to have a lot more children and parents who are going to make a point of getting with the program. And yes, it's irresponsible to place so many of a college track they are not equipped or interested in pursuing. The public education value of "an equal education for all" is absurd. Children are different and those not interested in an academic track shouldn't be forced into one because of the prejudices of teachers and school systems.

Hello Blancmange, Yes, personalizing that comment was unjustified and I hope my editing of it makes the comment reasonable. Please accept my apology.

You might consider making that a by invitation troop outing. It would probably become a prestige activity rather rapidly and a plumb Scouts would want to be invited to do. If your SPL is one of those eager backpackers, great! He might do the inviting, or you could figure out another method of selection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck Why yes, "redneck" HAS been used for a hundred years or more as a term to foment race and class hatred. Quite similar to the N word. Except, of course, that hate and contempt of lower class whites tends to be fashionable among the better educated and more prestigious parts of society. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

There are plenty of people who will make no prgress in even a community college that admits everyone if they fail to study or have no aptitude for study. If you get a string of "F"s in the classes you sign up for, the world is sending you a message. Probably such students would be kicked out if they can't do the work. The same should be true in public swchools, but instead they are retained, year after year after year despite stupefyingly low standards. The simple fact is that quite a few children aren't interested in an academic education or are unable to benefit from one. Trying to keep them in school inevitably results in severe compromises with thae standards needed for an academic program. At it's worst, you have $50,000-100,000 or more being spent per year providing services to disabled children who plainly can't benefit from an academic program. Keepibng junior thugs and criminals in schools to be drug dealers and criminal enforcers is worse yet.

bt, This is the right time of the year to recruit new 5th and 6th graders into Boy Scouts. You may be able to visit schools at lunch and invite interested boys to a meeting and outing.

Where's the spot for the Friends of Scouting solicitation?