scoutldr

Traditionally, den meeting time and location are at the discretion and convenience of the DL. I had den meetings in my kitchen, like my Den Mother did 40 years ago. I don't know when it started that "all dens meet at the same place and time", but it seems to be more and more common. It's neither good nor bad, I guess, as long as it works. Whether to have a den meeting during Pack meeting week is also at the discretion of the DL, but the parents might want a vote too. That being said, we had Pack meetings on the third Wednesday of the month...check your Council calendar to make sure it doesnt' conflict with Roundtables, or other meetings/events that might conflict. Congratulations on wanting to get your Pack on track...a Pack Meeting SHOULD be an EVENT...with songs, skits, awards, cheers, and FUN...Roundtables are an excellent source of ideas, so make sure to take advantage of those.

I wouldn't disparage the other troop. I would just say, "all of our adults and youth leaders are fully trained and we are operating the troop according to the BSA program...boy-led. Our scouts do their own planning and learn from their mistakes."

I would ask the parents what lesson their son learns by having an adult do everything for him? As has been mentioned in other posts, many of today's parents view the Eagle as "let's get it done, check it off the list and move on to something else"....a resume entry for the college application. After all, as soon as we make Eagle, we can quit those annoying weekly meetings, campouts and popcorn sales!

Do you attend the monthly roundtable meetings? No Do you even know what they are? yes Does your roundtable staff conduct good meetings? No Are they worthwhile attending? No I don't consider them "training". Just an information passing meeting. Could achieve the same end by sending me an e-mail and saving me a night out.

I agree with the others...awarding the SB for donating money is just wrong. Awards should not be purchased. I also have served on the District selection committee and the biggest problem is getting nominations. SOme forms just had a name on them. Some just said "Jim is a really great guy and deserves this award." Sorry, can't do anything with that. Also, it's hard to get someone's "resume" without telling them why you need the information, so most people don't bother. The same issues seem to hinder the OA Vigil nomination procedure. You can't be selected if you're not nominated, and getting people to track down all the information required and then fill out the form in a coherent, convincing manner is just beyond the capability of most people. It's frustrating to see Scouters with 30 years of dedicated service be passed up year after year, while the DE/Staff advisor to the lodge gets the Vigil honor within 3 years of being hired...the schmooze factor is alive and well. Sadly, we have years when awards go unawarded for the lack of quality nominations.

Some never outgrow it.

I would have the TC have a chat with his parents, and explain in no uncertain terms that his behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I would also explain that physical contact such as this could be considered assault and battery, should the other scout's parents decide to press charges or sue civilly for bodily injury. Not to mention violation of numerous BSA policies regarding YP and hazing, which we as leaders are obligated to prevent.

Ed said, "As long as the by-laws aren't restates of BSA policy." Since mere mortals can't see the "Rules and Regulations of the BSA", which are kept on the SE's desk, how would we know? Problem is, all of the BSA policies aren't in one place. You need to BUY about 50 different BSA publications to get them all. I've mentioned before, it sure would be nice if the BSA would put everything on-line or on a CD in .pdf version. The OA has started doing that, and it's nice to be able to reference the latest version. Add 50 cents to everyone's registration fee to make up the revenue lost...it would be worth it! Even an online FAQ would be a good start!

As far as I'm concerned, the date of rank is the BOR date and the scout should be awarded the cloth badge. If you want to be safe, wait until the paperwork comes back approved from National...6-8 weeks. The COH can be anytime.

I agree, flushing meds is not the best environmental solution, but do you have a better idea? The school is closed for the summer, and open for maintenance work. She cannot leave controlled substsances in the clinic unattended. If the parents won't come get the meds, I guess she could bring them home for the summer, but that's above and beyond the call. It should be noted that most in this area are military dependents and meds are free (courtesy of the taxpayer). In September, they just get more. Being in the Public Health field, I have read there are concerns with the upcoming pandemic flu...when millions of doses of Tamiflu start getting flushed, the Avian flu virus will quickly mutate into a resistant strain. This is scary stuff...

Sorry, Beav. If I showed up at a scout's home with a shrink in tow wanting to discuss their kid's medical conditions, I would probably be escorted off the property...and with good reason. I think the ONLY acceptable course of action for a scouter is to discuss the scout's BEHAVIOR during activities, without regard to medication regimens. Disruptive behavior is never acceptable, with or without medication. I expect scouts to meet standards of behavior, as outlined in the Scout Oath and Law. It's up to the parent, scout and their physician to decide how to get there. If there is a doctor's order for medication, I will see that he gets it on schedule. If not, it's a behavior/discipline issue.

Ditto what Lisa said. Sounds to me like the SE got wind of the fact that there was no Camporee planned and rearranged the DE's priorities for him at the last minute. Maybe a not so subtle way of convincing him to get those District positions filled, so he doesnt' have to do it himself. This is not the unit's problem...

Gotta wonder about the irony of a thread on forum courtesy that quickly deteriorates into personal attacks. Personally, not much offends me, except for people who insist on their point of view even when presented with the facts. A former CO of mine (oops, I mean, "a CO under whom I previously served") would call them the "defiantly ignorant." I even enjoy Merlyn's point of view, and I am forced to admit that it sometimes makes logical sense. His contribution here is valuable, as are others who steadfastly adhere to the other end of the spectrum. Our country would never have been successful by steadfastly adhering to any particular dogma. We are a consensus society, and no one gets everything they want all the time. That's what makes America great!

As our DE lectured us one night at a District Committee mtg, WE are the District and WE are the Council. When a unit fails, a whole lot of people failed. The CO agrees to operate a unit under the Charter agreement. This includes not only providing a place to meet, but also selecting and approving unit leaders. The Pack Committee agrees to see that leaders are trained and that they operate the program as intended with the resources provided by the Committee (fundraising, recruiting, training, etc). The Commissioner staff agrees to "be a friend" to the unit, monitoring key metrics of unit health and offering suggestions for improvement. The parents agree to support the Pack leadership by helping out where needed and to work with their boys at home on advancement. And finally, the scouts agree to "do their best, follow Akela, help the Pack go and give goodwill." The District Membership chair is more focused on creating new units and school night type events. The Commissioners are the ones who are supposed to nurse "sick" units back to health. Unfortunately, a lot of Commissioner staffs are non-existent, ineffective, or are "in name only".

I was never on active duty, but I did take two years of Army ROTC in college. Our instructors were in Infantry CPT and an Armor CPT just back from Vietnam. The Lieutenant Colonel was God and we never got to talk to him. They taught us Von Clausewitz and the Art of War, and how to handle your calling cards when you pay the CO a courtesy call. The supply Sgt taught us how to clean our weapons properly and how to lose money at poker. The Senior cadets taught us how to march and act important, since they had just been to Ranger school and could kill a snake and eat it raw. The only lesson I remember is that "discipline is what happens when the Leader is not around." You don't gain that by yelling and lecturing.

"Natural consequences are better parents than I could ever hope to be"...that's classic, Oz (good to hear from "down under" again!). I, too am a firm believer in "you made your own bed"...within safe limits, of course. I tell parents that my only obligation as a scouter is to bring them back alive. If they become wet, bit, hungry, dirty, angry, cold or smelly, it's because of choices they made, not me. They have the knowledge and tools to prevent it. And I don't disagree with Eamonn. By the time a scout is Venturer age, it's too late, and I won't try to teach the pig to sing. Eleven year olds are a bit different. They need to be shown what a properly balanced meal looks like. (which even the schools have given up on). If they choose not to eat, that's their choice, but alternatives will not be available, except for medical or religious reasons. I've also observed that as scouts gain age and experience, their menus mature as well, from Mac and Cheese, to steaks, salads and dutch oven cobblers. Another thread once asked about good movies to show in group settings...how about "Supersize Me"?

All I can say is, "you shoulda seen it two years ago!" I think today's forum is a LOT tamer than it was, and I enjoy it...to the point of being addicted. I honestly try to address the issue, not the person. If I ever fail, I appreciate a gentle reminder. I am a logical person who expects common sense and consistency from the world. I am often disappointed, but I feel obliged to point out the illogic where I find it, under the principle that nothing can be fixed until it is recognized and acknowledged. It's just a GAME, folks...B-P himself said so...

NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. syllabuses or syllabi (-b) 1. An outline or a summary of the main points of a text, lecture, or course of study. That's one of the main reasons I gave up being a trainer. The SE was not happy with the number of training courses being offered, and stated, "how hard can it be, just go read them the stuff and play the videos." For me, each course was the same level of effort (preparing, finding a location, printing flyers, borrowing a laptop and projector from work, printing handouts, endless phone calls from people who can't read, etc), whether one person showed up or 50. It should be noted that the guy who replaced me as training chair two years ago has yet to deliver his first course. (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

"we're not set up to handle that level of stupid..." I like that. My favorite bumper sticker is "Stupidity SHOULD be painful!" Now, I'm not perfect and have done my share of stupid. But I have paid what I call the "stupid tax". At least in this case the parents could be located. I've taken scouts to summer camp, and the parents decide to go out of town for the week, without telling anyone. (If the scout knew, he probably would have had objections to going to camp). That's just irresponsible, and I resented it.

Lisa, point taken. I have to wonder in amazement at the units who have adults "apply" for the position of SM or ASM and then compete for the job in interviews with the CO and Committee. In our area, a highly transient military town, that just doesnt' happen. If you can fog a mirror and pass the background check, you're in.

Circle the choice that does not fit: 1. Keep myself physically fit 2. Make ethical choices over their lifetime 3. Help other people at all times 4. Eat only Twinkies if that makes you happy - you're not MY kid I guess I see this as one of the primary purposes of Scouting...to expose kids to a proper, healthy, ethical, and moral lifestyle by teaching them to model proper behavior, regardless of what's expected of them at home. Granted, we all don't raise our kids the same way...but we were approved as leaders because it's perceived that we are good role models and teachers. If all we are is a provider of entertainment or transportation, since everything else is their parents' responsibility, then count me out.

Since we know so much about it, we should be spelling "Asperger's Syndrome" correctly....named after Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger. And I don't buy the argument about saving money. Every June, my wife, a school nurse, would have to flush hundreds of dollars worth of Ritalin and Adderall because the parents couldn't be bothered coming in to school to pick it up. Now with the long acting drugs, she can get back to her real job rather than spending hours a day handing out pills while the kids lined up down the hall.

What adult in his/her right mind would want to be alone with a kid like this? Impulsive, disregard for rules, selfish, spoiled... what a set-up for a YP catastrophe!

It's not just a syllabus, it's a "script". It also includes posters,a CD with power point slides, and a VHS tape. When I was a trainer, I would spend a lot of time preparing handouts, flip charts, etc. If they won't give you the materials to do it right, I would politely refuse.

At our camp, youth and adults use separate facilities. Ditto what Gern said.